215 replies to this topic

[WarHippy]

Mawai, on 03 December 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

So ...

Expect it to get nerfed.

If the BJ-1X is bad enough then the quirks will get toned down. They did it with the ERPPC TDR and they will do it with the Blackjack. Some folks will cheer and some will whine. Hopefully, though, PGI has better metrics in place and will be able to identify such outlier mechs more quickly and implement the changes sooner based on facts rather than hearsay, posts and twitter comments from both those for and against.

At the moment, I think PGI is focused on the steam launch and if the BJ-1X is bad enough then they will be motivated to patch it before the launch.

Deathlike, on 03 December 2015 - 12:27 PM, said:

That gets said time and time again... and we have long standing metas that keep going or get overnerfed and the actual problem isn't actually resolved.

I can't take that type of statement seriously until it is demonstrated otherwise (outside of the noise/whining).

Speaking of the Thunderbolt 9S I still find everything that has happened with that mech to be out right silly, and a good indication of what kind of bumpy roller coaster ride the BJ 1X is in for.
The 9S was considered garbage before quirks, and then quirks came out and ERPPCs had a -25% heat quirk, but people still felt it was crap so it was given -50% heat to ERPPCs and some additional velocity. Then it was too strong so the devs response was to drop it down to where it was when it was still considered to be not so good but at least it was still getting some play. Fast forward to this weeks patch and the 9S was hit again with heat nerfs to the ERPPCs(Why would I use them over regular PPCs now when it was questionable already?). Basically the 1X is currently sitting at its version of the post -50% heat quirk situation the 9S was in, and has a sad future of repeated nerfs headed its way. The devs clearly don't know how to balance things in general let alone how to buff/nerf things without obsoleting something or making it disgustingly over compensated.

[Mcgral18]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 03 December 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

Unless Paul was trolling the living sh!t out of us, we found our disconnect.

Every night when I have the star to the group, when I see Tina online I want to shoot her an invite and get her to play with QQ for a bit so she can see 'what right looks like.'

I sent a PM to Tina asking about the balance process in October...she hasn't looked at it yet.
Sent one to Paul last month as well...same deal


Asked Russ on Twitter...silence.



*sigh* I guess we'll never find out how balance plans and changes are thought up.

[izzycat218]

Wish it was the hunchback or highlander instead. Though in my eyes a medium should never beat an assault 1v1.

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 03 December 2015 - 01:14 PM, said:

I sent a PM to Tina asking about the balance process in October...she hasn't looked at it yet.
Sent one to Paul last month as well...same deal


Asked Russ on Twitter...silence.



*sigh* I guess we'll never find out how balance plans and changes are thought up.

We have plenty of artwork and imagination to express what we think what happens behind the scenes.

It could just be a puzzle he's trying to decipher... like Tetris.

[LORD ORION]

Meh, it doesn't have jumpjets and it still can't take an alpha to the side torsos.

We need more small mechs like this that can push the envelope of performance for good pilots.

[braveheart95]

No really. Why didn't the vindicator get some of the quirks the blackjack 1X received?? My guess is because it isn't used by players, therefore it is ignored when it comes to mechs that need help in the quirk department.

[Deathlike]

braveheart95, on 03 December 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

No really. Why didn't the vindicator get some of the quirks the blackjack 1X received?? My guess is because it isn't used by players, therefore it is ignored when it comes to mechs that need help in the quirk department.

Vindicator... still MIA/DOA since birth.

[Monkey Lover]

braveheart95, on 03 December 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

No really. Why didn't the vindicator get some of the quirks the blackjack 1X received?? My guess is because it isn't used by players, therefore it is ignored when it comes to mechs that need help in the quirk department.

It did get a lot of buffs. I still don't see how few medium lasers worth of extra armor makes something crazy op. The BLR-2C had these quirks for a long time and how many people are using it?

Edited by Monkey Lover, 03 December 2015 - 02:09 PM.

[Revis Volek]

Deathlike, on 03 December 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

Vindicator... still MIA/DOA since birth.

Im pretty sure it wa a loss for PGI to even put the Vindi in game...

I dont think they even broke even for the time put in. Or maybe they just dont care?

Edited by DarthRevis, 03 December 2015 - 02:11 PM.

[wanderer]

The BJ-1X is just going to be another name in the series of quirk-and-nerf that "balances" the game, vs. actually attempting to fix the underlying systems that are the real problem.

Watch the cups as they shuffle around. The ball's under one of them, no foolin'.

[Ace Selin]

WarHippy, on 03 December 2015 - 01:14 PM, said:

Speaking of the Thunderbolt 9S I still find everything that has happened with that mech to be out right silly, and a good indication of what kind of bumpy roller coaster ride the BJ 1X is in for.
The 9S was considered garbage before quirks, and then quirks came out and ERPPCs had a -25% heat quirk, but people still felt it was crap so it was given -50% heat to ERPPCs and some additional velocity. Then it was too strong so the devs response was to drop it down to where it was when it was still considered to be not so good but at least it was still getting some play. Fast forward to this weeks patch and the 9S was hit again with heat nerfs to the ERPPCs(Why would I use them over regular PPCs now when it was questionable already?). Basically the 1X is currently sitting at its version of the post -50% heat quirk situation the 9S was in, and has a sad future of repeated nerfs headed its way. The devs clearly don't know how to balance things in general let alone how to buff/nerf things without obsoleting something or making it disgustingly over compensated.

Do people still use the ERPPC 9S? After it lost the -50% heat quirk i really haven't seen them being played.
PPCs are bad, ERPPCs are worse and a mech with ERPPC quirks gets nerfed whilst no one was playing it anyway

[Bishop Steiner]

Aresye Kerensky, on 03 December 2015 - 10:51 AM, said:

Note, when I talk about the term, "broken," I'm talking about tonnage vs. effectiveness. As in earlier example, the FS9 was broken, especially when the FS9-A was at its all time high with its massive SPL quirks before they got throttled back a bit. Then the ACH became the most broken mech in the game.

After this most recent patch however, the award for most broken mech in this game goes to the BJ-1X.

In this brutal 45t package, we have:
- Doubled internal structure.
- Very good high mounts.
- Slim front and side profile.
- Incredibly maneuverable with MASSIVE acceleration and deceleration quirks.
- Very good laser quirks, including shorter duration.

There is no mech at 45t that comes close to the amount of firepower, maneuverability, survivability (post-patch), hardpoints, and scaling.

It has two weaknesses when compared to the 10t heavier SCR:
- The SCR is better at long-extreme ranges.
- The SCR can run streaks.

Against both Clan and IS laser boats at medium-short engagement ranges however, this mech can out-trade practically everything. Even losing all your armor and having open torso structure doesn't necessitate a switch up in tactics or play style. You can literally keep fighting with near impunity until one of your torsos is cherry red.

Some of the best competitive players have been running the 1X for quite some time now. Even prior to this most recent patch, this mech was the more underground, "secret," meta mech that everybody knew deep down, was way too good for its own good, but nobody would ever admit it, because it's both a medium mech, and an IS one at that.

Now, for those IS purists who will never admit that an IS mech would ever be OP, I'd like you to explain why:

1. If the BJ-1X is NOT OP, then why do I see so many competitive players running this mech so often?
2. If the BJ-1X is NOT OP, then why were there SIX of them on my team last night?
3. If the BJ-1X is NOT OP, then why is my non-elited BJ-1X giving me better games, higher damage, more kills, and longer survivability, than my fully mastered SCRs?

And don't try and throw the whole, "Clan XL" thing in here. The doubled internal structure, accel/decel quirks, and slim profile all make the IS XL disadvantage a completely moot point. Any good player in a 1X that knows how to trade and spread damage well can easily make the 1X survive the entire game.

Hell, even if you make a MASSIVE tactical error, such as last night when I was the last mech on my team and I accidentally poked too far out, facing 3 Marauders with all guns trained on me with all 3 of my torsos down to internals, you can survive. I just simply turned around, rapidly twisting my torso in the process, and got back behind cover. I was hit by 2 of the 3 Marauders during this. My torso internals, which were yellow and orange before, were now dark orange and red, but I survived, and was able to kill 1 of the 3 remaining mechs before finally going down.

This wasn't against bad players either. Last night was full of games with 228, EmP, Tool, -42-, and other groups comprised of very competent players. This mech is just over the top ridiculous.

Yes, the BJ-1X is broken. And Russ has already stated he is aware of it, and they will be nerfing it.

Though even with it's current capabilities, not fully convinced it's more powerful and overall better than a Stormcrow.

So don't worry, shortly you will return to the TBR, HBR, EBJ, ACH, SCR and such being the top mechs in the game.

[pwnface]

Mcgral18, on 03 December 2015 - 01:14 PM, said:

*sigh* I guess we'll never find out how balance plans and changes are thought up.

I'm waiting for the day the letters "P" "P" "C" line up in Paul's spaghetti-Os alphabet soup.

Monkey Lover, on 03 December 2015 - 02:09 PM, said:

It did get a lot of buffs. I still don't see how few medium lasers worth of extra armor makes something crazy op. The BLR-2C had these quirks for a long time and how many people are using it?

It doesn't make it inherently OP. Adding additional structure/armor buffs to a chassis that is already considered very strong is what makes it OP.

[Mcgral18]

pwnface, on 03 December 2015 - 03:06 PM, said:

It doesn't make it inherently OP. Adding additional structure/armor buffs to a chassis that is already considered very strong is what makes it OP.

Would you prefer the Structure or the Weapon quirks?

350M MLs are nice.

[pwnface]

Ace Selin, on 03 December 2015 - 02:58 PM, said:

Do people still use the ERPPC 9S? After it lost the -50% heat quirk i really haven't seen them being played.
PPCs are bad, ERPPCs are worse and a mech with ERPPC quirks gets nerfed whilst no one was playing it anyway

People don't use it because it's too hot.

Mcgral18, on 03 December 2015 - 03:07 PM, said:

Would you prefer the Structure or the Weapon quirks?

350M MLs are nice.

I'd prefer the weapon quirks personally. The BJ-1X has the speed and hardpoint placement to make smart trades without taking a lot of damage.

[jper4]

Deathlike, on 03 December 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

Vindicator... still MIA/DOA since birth.

hmm vindi or trebuchet- which is more MIA in the land of mediums? I vote trebs.

[Monkey Lover]

pwnface, on 03 December 2015 - 03:06 PM, said:

It doesn't make it inherently OP. Adding additional structure/armor buffs to a chassis that is already considered very strong is what makes it OP.

Very strong? Lol it was a good 45 ton mech and was in the weight class Russ put teams in after the group Q tonnage nerf. It was never a top tier mech. You see people using them because they don't want to use a cda.

[Deathlike]

Tanar, on 03 December 2015 - 03:37 PM, said:

hmm vindi or trebuchet- which is more MIA in the land of mediums? I vote trebs.

Trebuchet aka the Fail/Trash bucket has sucked longer.... it's kinda sad really. 7K is its only salvation and that's not saying much.

[pwnface]

Monkey Lover, on 03 December 2015 - 03:54 PM, said:

Very strong? Lol it was a good 45 ton mech and was in the weight class Russ put teams in after the group Q tonnage nerf. It was never a top tier mech. You see people using them because they don't want to use a cda.

The 3 mediums commonly used in comp play were the SCR, WVR-6K and BJ-1X. The BJ-1X has been fantastic for shooting over terrain and making good trades for a while now. Yes, the BJ-1X has been a strong mech for a while now.

[Elizander]

The HBK-4SP is similarly broken in stats but gets no love.