35 replies to this topic

[Xelaxela333]

hmm infinity? Ive heard of that. And yes. Warmachine games are slow. Its still a play like youve got a pair, in your face game, but it is slow. Ive been playing for about two years now and Im ready for a new game. Hence I picked up the mechwarrior clickies for super cheap to play while I figure out what game I want to move to lol. I really like how fast the games are, while still retaining just enough depth to keep it interesting.

[phelancracken]

Arctic Fox, on 04 June 2012 - 03:09 AM, said:

MASC failure doesn't cause heat sinks to fail under newer rules, it just causes immediate critical damage to the legs, which isn't that far off from what it did under the old rules. I haven't played MWDA, so I can't compare, but I seriously doubt any of the latest ruleset was designed specifically to make BattleTech work like the ClickyTech game...

The issue is, the crits in the older rules fell on the actuators ONLY. In fact, it would freeze the leg actuators so you couldn't move. The new Total Warfare set the crits could fall on the other 2 crit slots in the legs. Ego, heat sinks. Hence my irritation with the new rules.

edit:

I checked the BMRr set. It says that MASC failure freezes the actuators in the legs. Basically like critting the hip actuators. In Total Warfare, it states you assign on critical hit to each leg. Does not say the crits have to be on actuators which is where I am coming from when I say the new system isn't very well liked by me.

The fluff of MASC states that this system pushes the actuators dangerously fast, hence the roll for activation. You know there is a chance for failure, so why randomly assign crits to the legs that aren't on actuators.

Edited by phelancracken, 05 June 2012 - 08:50 AM.

[Arctic Fox]

phelancracken, on 05 June 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

The issue is, the crits in the older rules fell on the actuators ONLY. In fact, it would freeze the leg actuators so you couldn't move. The new Total Warfare set the crits could fall on the other 2 crit slots in the legs. Ego, heat sinks. Hence my irritation with the new rules.

Ah, I see what you mean.

phelancracken, on 05 June 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

edit:

I checked the BMRr set. It says that MASC failure freezes the actuators in the legs. Basically like critting the hip actuators. In Total Warfare, it states you assign on critical hit to each leg. Does not say the crits have to be on actuators which is where I am coming from when I say the new system isn't very well liked by me.

The fluff of MASC states that this system pushes the actuators dangerously fast, hence the roll for activation. You know there is a chance for failure, so why randomly assign crits to the legs that aren't on actuators.

Under the old rules, MASC failure always had the same effect. Under the new rules, which actuator actually fails is random; that fits much better, in my opinion, with the fluff of it pushing the myomer bundles beyond safety. Yes, that also has the effect of allowing other equipment to be destroyed instead, but that's still logical considering the stress the system inflicts on the legs as whole.

Regardless of what the better rules are, though, I still don't see how slightly different MASC rules relate in any way to making BattleTech work like the ClickyTech game. How did MASC work in DA/AoD, anyway?

Edited by Arctic Fox, 05 June 2012 - 09:49 AM.

[phelancracken]

Okay 2 things:

In the BMRr and older rule sets, you lost all movement if you failed MASC roll. Basically a pillbox that isn't considered immobile.

Now in the Total Warfare set, you roll to see what the crits are located in the legs. if you have only leg actuators, yeah, it hurts. But if you have all crits used up, it's a 1in 3 chance of the crits not harming you for the exception of not being able to use the MASC system again. You could loose up to both hips or maybe just one foot actuator. Or possibly no movement from the failed roll. If I recall clickytech correctly, if you fail mask you change one maybe 2 dails so many clicks. Movement isn't wiped out unless the mech had prior damage. So as a pilot of that mech that has multiple items in the legs besides actuators, the MASC failure is buffered by that 1in3 chance of the crits hitting something that won't affect your walking running movement. If you packed Medium lasers down there, yeah, lost a laser, but I can still move full speed.

Part of that is due to clicky tech the mechs were soo hard to get fielded they didn't want them immobilized just from a failed roll. Don't agree with that, but there it is.

Other rules of Total Warfare I don't agree with. LOS is one. Don't get me started on that.

[Shadow One]

Atlas3060, on 04 December 2011 - 06:31 PM, said:

Honestly?

No, give me both. I play against folks at my nearby store with dice, pencils, and maps, but I also want to play electronically because sometimes not everyone can get there on Sundays. I found a slew of people in the main Battletech Forums frequent the Challenges and Gatherings board.

So I'll play Megamek, I'll play MW4 for free (thanks MekTek!), and sometimes I throw in $25 to play around 6-7 hours over at the Telsa Pod games. Even Dark Age served a function for me, it was easy for me to bring victims...er I mean fellow players into the Universe.

Am I saying that the "more comercialised" stuff is better? No but it is more accessible for some people. If we can reach them then this franchise won't die off so quickly.

i have no one to play with in the area i live in it sucks

[Malkenson]

True pain? Try playing a game called Star Fleet Battles... Talking about a rules intensive game. Only has a rules binder with 300+ pages of rules, with more being added from time to time.

[phelancracken]

*Shudders* That game was a pack your lunch, dinner and BREAKFAST!!!! if it amounted to more than one on one.

[Kyle Knightraven]

Wonderful example of the luck aspect of the original rule set. Playing in a tournament, 100 ton free for all. Piloting my MAD-4A Marauder II. No damage at this point. Took a single hit to the left leg - piloting roll. Fail and fall down. Piloting roll for damage, fail and 10 damage. Where? Roll double 6...head. Possible critical, sure enough...guess were? You got it...cockpit. Room erupts in laughter as I scream "NOOOOOOO! " Good times!

[Ranger207]

Malkenson, on 05 June 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

True pain? Try playing a game called Star Fleet Battles... Talking about a rules intensive game. Only has a rules binder with 300+ pages of rules, with more being added from time to time.

I've got Starfleet Command (don't remember from where...) that I still play when there's absolutly nothing else to do. Anyway, that game is supposed to be based on SFB, but I never really got into it. Space is too open for me; no terrain for my stratagies...

[phelancracken]

That game isn't quite the same. The computer automates soo much of the rules it's not funny. In SFBs you had to allocate energy to rebuild shields. Imagine having to allocate power to EACH system before the beginning of the turn of 32 impulses per turn.....*Shudder*

[Skylarr]

I play Battletech/Mechwarrior every other weekend with my friends. We start at 3pm and go until 3AM. We started with about 6 player and 1 GM and are down to 3 players and 1 GM.

[Vermaxx]

I have a group of guys who still play weekly pen/paper and sometimes go back to BTech. We've been doing this since high school and are all in our 30s now. Sometimes we play Games Workshop products but generally with homemade terrain (or at the local store they just built, it has a few of those modular tables all nicely painted and a host of terrain add ons). Most of the time we meet at a house for the good old originals. The key to doing something like this is HAVING the crew. Let's stereotype people who RPG and tabletop and call ourselves nerds; and nerds are insular, opinionated creatures who do not like meeting other tribes of underdwellers. If you do not have your own tribe, joining another is difficult. If you HAVE a tribe, then make them take one day a week and get together for heavily salted/fatted snack foods and manchild socialization!

People play what they want, and companies sell what people play. You have to admit the click system simplified BTech down for almost anyone and added a host of things that were hard to include, like vehicles, artillery, infantry, aerotech, and regular/elite/named pilots. The reason these things became more popular is simple: they are easier. This is the same reason why Mat Ward (OH NO I invoked the name of the Beast!) is power-creeping Warhammer 40k. Simpler, higher powered games go faster and attract younger player with their hands down mommy and daddy's bank account.

Unfortunately, the major reason is the age of the current players. In the 80s, the average 'nerd' was a sociall shunned, perhaps even intellectual, TEEN looking for very fantasy/sci-fi activities and not afraid to get technical. Today the average game player is very different, since most 80s nerds grew up and had to get adult time sinks, like jobs and kids and elderly parents. Today's player is younger and frequently does not see the point in playing with toys in a store when he could be online shooting highly detailed people in the head. Products have been modified to appeal to this new demographic and keep tabletop games in business.

Still, collectible click mini games aren't for everyone, and my preferred mode of BTech is STILL a 2D map laid out with some carboard or unpainted mechs.

Damn, this thread and this forum makes me want to play BTech. Must buy a sheet of plexiglass first, because @&*$ creases.

Edited by Vermaxx, 05 June 2012 - 08:44 PM.

[Vermaxx]

Kyle Knightraven, on 05 June 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

Wonderful example of the luck aspect of the original rule set. Playing in a tournament, 100 ton free for all. Piloting my MAD-4A Marauder II. No damage at this point. Took a single hit to the left leg - piloting roll. Fail and fall down. Piloting roll for damage, fail and 10 damage. Where? Roll double 6...head. Possible critical, sure enough...guess were? You got it...cockpit. Room erupts in laughter as I scream "NOOOOOOO! " Good times!

We sat down one night when we were running a BTech campaign. My friend's Wasp (or something) takes a glancing hit, and rolls the STASTICALLY IMPROBABLY series down to machine gun ammo crit explosion killing his mech. We'd been there ten minutes. He put his shoes on and went home.

[Arikiel]

They say that modern games are streamlined. That they're faster and you don't need character sheets. To me they're just dumbed down. Seriously does everyone have ADD these days?

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

I think, when it comes to CBT, a friend of mine said it best.

"Classic Battletech, as fun as it can be, is really a beer and pretzels game."

What was ment by this was, it's a great game for when you want to hang out with a couple of friends, break out a beer or two, or 20... and waste a day away in good, stompy robot fashion.

The system can be clunky, but it's a real joy too.

A friend of mine told me about one of his first experiences. He and a couple of friends were running a lance, each of them had taken a mech, vs. the GM who had taken 4 of his own. My friend had taken an Atlas, and was moving it up some serious terrain... [keep in mind this was back when the game was called BATTLEDROIDS lol] he worked his mech up a mountian and had to make a piloting skill check for the height he was climbing... he failed the roll. His atlas fell backward, and breached the rear armor of his mech, critting his AC20 ammo...
This was on the first turn. he lost his mech... he sat down his paper... and said only three words. "This IS AWESOME!"

I've played a myriad of tabletop games, from DND to Warhammer 40K, to Battletech. and still to this day, battletech gives me the most interesting battles. [40k can be tons of fun, but the rules make you want to though your dice at someone's head... still seeing huge army's of future soldiers fighting it out is awesome to watch]

[Atlas3060]

Shadow One, on 05 June 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

i have no one to play with in the area i live in it sucks

And it is posts like this that makes me wish everyone lived within a mile of another gamer.
If you are ever in Dallas, drop by and we'll throw some dice.