63 replies to this topic

[Troutmonkey]

Novakaine, on 05 December 2015 - 12:04 AM, said:

Where's the evidence?
None.
Has it ever gone up on the test sever?
Nope.
Your argument is comical and just plain wrong.

Uh,
10v12 in CW with each player having 4 mechs.
40v48

If each clanners had 5 mechs, than it would be 50v48
There's no good way to do it. So until you can solve that, 10v12 will never happen

[Jun Watarase]

Coolant, on 04 December 2015 - 08:28 PM, said:

Russ just tweeted its back up to 250

Great....and i was enjoying the less "3 tbolts + 55 ton medium" spam. So sick and tired of seeing tbolts with the exact same builds.

[Aresye]

I've played CW as a pug with both IS and Clan. The notion that IS has worse pugs is an overwhelming, absolutely scientific FACT.

Seriously. I was absolutely dumbfounded how terrible the quality was.

The very fact that I could take 2 TDRs that weren't even basic'd, along with 2 trial mechs, and consistently be the top scorer for the team 3 freaking games in a row, is downright embarrassing. Oh yeah, and those were all losses. We weren't even losing to premade teams and people were disconnecting on my IS side, complaining about balance and how Clans were too stupidly powerful as they did.

The worse part is, for 2 out of 3 of those games, I probably COULD have clutched a win had I had an actual FULL dropdeck with 4 elited mechs. Nothing was worse than going up against EBJs and TBRs with not even having Twist X unlocked, or in a stupidly hot Raven. Hell, I didn't even need to be the one to clutch the game. If only ONE other player could have come even close to my score, we would have had it.

Now in my opinion, it makes sense that IS would have worse solo players, and it's simply a matter of laziness. Non-tagged Davion pugs being the absolute worst of them all. You know what faction pops up first to play CW? That's right: Davion. Which factions are in the very back and require players to scroll all of the way through to even get to? That's right: Clans. Is it really a far fetched idea to suggest that just MAYBE the majority of players that just want to play CW don't care about their faction, and just default to Davion or one of the first few they see?

The difference in coordination and attitude between the two sides is like the freaking night and day.

Also, have you looked at the tournaments page? Do you even know where all the good teams are? Yeah, the majority of them are Clan for this event, because last event teams like the 228 had to wait 60+ freaking teams in queue to get a single match, and they don't want to put up with that BS again.

So you've got tons of great teams and nearly every competitive team on one side, and a bunch of, "I just want to do this event for the rewards, I'll take trial mechs," pugs on the other side.

I could be wrong, but here's the important thing to remember:

Last Tukayyid Clans won 53% of the games, and the Clan mechs have been getting steadily nerfed since then. This most recent patch gave most IS mechs HUGE structure and mobility buffs, and gave Clans some pretty heavy nerfs, including a nerf to the Clan XL engine itself.

In other words, there's no possible way that Clans are STRONGER since last Tukayyid, so if the data shows Clans winning more than 53% of games in the end, PGI may as well throw out their data, because that would prove it isn't the tech that's influencing this event.

[Adamski]

Uh, they have nerfed Thunderbolts and Stalkers every patch that they nerfed Clan mechs.

Be glad if you are seeing lots of Thunderbolts still, they just got nerfed, for the 3rd time.

[Moebius Pi]

Well, nice that they reverted the tonnage given it was a ******* stupid time to sneak it in, but still doesn't change the fact they weren't transparent enough about it's inclusion early on, nor without any fair warning to give folks time to prep.

They really just need to stop touting these events as being just that, events to draw player interest and just be honest that their PTS servers weren't seeing enough use, so they're using the live game as a guinea pig (again) and that's why it's there, you know, along with the "Also, we're doing a map reset right fast". Being transparent with the community is a -good thing-, not a bad thing.

Last minute flip flopping over it only ends up looking like a bad, sloppy back pedal to boot given it should either have been announced quite a while back (along with the event), along with the upcoming map resets more clearly.

Hiding the man behind the curtain and presenting the event as the great Oz is just poor PR.

[Lily from animove]

process, on 04 December 2015 - 06:33 PM, said:

Probably because they want to use this event the test the latest round of balancing, in particular the Clan laser nerfs.

yeah very cool, so basically, they take the kind of even which will nto give much good statistica feedback because teamplay, and faction wide coordination is more important and influencing than anything else. Especially consiering how many IS trials you see. For statistics too many things are broked between the factions not relating to any balance.

For my taste, in most games I see too less twisting too less movement, (mechs aren't turrets to stand on hills) on the Is side. because in those matches where th IS does, its very tough. In those where most don't it's doomed to fail.

there is surely still soem imbalance between some clanchassis beeing too strong, but what I see the IS pilots perform, I doubt that even balance would help them to do better. Give an ancient roman a chainsaw and he ill still be better with an Axe when tryign to cut off a tree.


get your noobs together and teach them.

Edited by Lily from animove, 05 December 2015 - 03:49 AM.

[MechB Kotare]

Novakaine, on 04 December 2015 - 07:16 PM, said:

Which I might add I don't care what schemes they come up with.
CW should be 10 vs. 12 period.
No matter the amount of Clam whine Clam mechs are still superior to IS mechs.
Their suppose to be.
But never in the same freaking numbers.

No one gives a slightest F about what you think it should be. Its 12 v 12 so deal with it.

Edit: They are supposed to be completely balanced in F2P title, so other IS trash isnt exchanged for Clan OPism in comp, Solo, or CW.

Edited by MechB Kotare, 05 December 2015 - 05:44 AM.

[Sixpack]

Jack Booted Thug, on 04 December 2015 - 08:11 PM, said:

It's not that clan mechs are better, it's that IS has worse pilots generally speaking. It has been this way since CW began.

Seconding this. Got our twelve man backsides handed to us by a IS pug in one of the matches. (And we won all engagements against IS 10-12 mans that I participated in, admittedly on one we had to switch out to gen rushing to win).

Edited by Sixpack, 05 December 2015 - 06:21 AM.

[Vickinator]

Aresye Kerensky, on 05 December 2015 - 01:21 AM, said:

I've played CW as a pug with both IS and Clan. The notion that IS has worse pugs is an overwhelming, absolutely scientific FACT.

Seriously. I was absolutely dumbfounded how terrible the quality was.

The very fact that I could take 2 TDRs that weren't even basic'd, along with 2 trial mechs, and consistently be the top scorer for the team 3 freaking games in a row, is downright embarrassing. Oh yeah, and those were all losses. We weren't even losing to premade teams and people were disconnecting on my IS side, complaining about balance and how Clans were too stupidly powerful as they did.

The worse part is, for 2 out of 3 of those games, I probably COULD have clutched a win had I had an actual FULL dropdeck with 4 elited mechs. Nothing was worse than going up against EBJs and TBRs with not even having Twist X unlocked, or in a stupidly hot Raven. Hell, I didn't even need to be the one to clutch the game. If only ONE other player could have come even close to my score, we would have had it.

Now in my opinion, it makes sense that IS would have worse solo players, and it's simply a matter of laziness. Non-tagged Davion pugs being the absolute worst of them all. You know what faction pops up first to play CW? That's right: Davion. Which factions are in the very back and require players to scroll all of the way through to even get to? That's right: Clans. Is it really a far fetched idea to suggest that just MAYBE the majority of players that just want to play CW don't care about their faction, and just default to Davion or one of the first few they see?

The difference in coordination and attitude between the two sides is like the freaking night and day.

Also, have you looked at the tournaments page? Do you even know where all the good teams are? Yeah, the majority of them are Clan for this event, because last event teams like the 228 had to wait 60+ freaking teams in queue to get a single match, and they don't want to put up with that BS again.

So you've got tons of great teams and nearly every competitive team on one side, and a bunch of, "I just want to do this event for the rewards, I'll take trial mechs," pugs on the other side.

I could be wrong, but here's the important thing to remember:

Last Tukayyid Clans won 53% of the games, and the Clan mechs have been getting steadily nerfed since then. This most recent patch gave most IS mechs HUGE structure and mobility buffs, and gave Clans some pretty heavy nerfs, including a nerf to the Clan XL engine itself.

In other words, there's no possible way that Clans are STRONGER since last Tukayyid, so if the data shows Clans winning more than 53% of games in the end, PGI may as well throw out their data, because that would prove it isn't the tech that's influencing this event.

This, this entire post is 100% accurate about CW, I was House Davion for all of CW until I switched to Jade Falcon a week ago and Davion pugs are EASILY the worst of the bunch.

Also I think the IS just refuses to run the best mechs they can field, whereas the clan pilots really have no choice. Loki's, Mad cats and Ryokens are the bread and butter of any clan CW drop deck (some expections) which simply means most clan pilots are running the best mechs we can field. Meanwhile IS pilots will bring locusts and panthers to CW.

Edited by Vickinator, 05 December 2015 - 06:38 AM.

[Jack Booted Thug]

Aresye Kerensky, on 05 December 2015 - 01:21 AM, said:

I've played CW as a pug with both IS and Clan. The notion that IS has worse pugs is an overwhelming, absolutely scientific FACT.

Seriously. I was absolutely dumbfounded how terrible the quality was.

The very fact that I could take 2 TDRs that weren't even basic'd, along with 2 trial mechs, and consistently be the top scorer for the team 3 freaking games in a row, is downright embarrassing. Oh yeah, and those were all losses. We weren't even losing to premade teams and people were disconnecting on my IS side, complaining about balance and how Clans were too stupidly powerful as they did.

The worse part is, for 2 out of 3 of those games, I probably COULD have clutched a win had I had an actual FULL dropdeck with 4 elited mechs. Nothing was worse than going up against EBJs and TBRs with not even having Twist X unlocked, or in a stupidly hot Raven. Hell, I didn't even need to be the one to clutch the game. If only ONE other player could have come even close to my score, we would have had it.

Now in my opinion, it makes sense that IS would have worse solo players, and it's simply a matter of laziness. Non-tagged Davion pugs being the absolute worst of them all. You know what faction pops up first to play CW? That's right: Davion. Which factions are in the very back and require players to scroll all of the way through to even get to? That's right: Clans. Is it really a far fetched idea to suggest that just MAYBE the majority of players that just want to play CW don't care about their faction, and just default to Davion or one of the first few they see?

The difference in coordination and attitude between the two sides is like the freaking night and day.

Also, have you looked at the tournaments page? Do you even know where all the good teams are? Yeah, the majority of them are Clan for this event, because last event teams like the 228 had to wait 60+ freaking teams in queue to get a single match, and they don't want to put up with that BS again.

So you've got tons of great teams and nearly every competitive team on one side, and a bunch of, "I just want to do this event for the rewards, I'll take trial mechs," pugs on the other side.

I could be wrong, but here's the important thing to remember:

Last Tukayyid Clans won 53% of the games, and the Clan mechs have been getting steadily nerfed since then. This most recent patch gave most IS mechs HUGE structure and mobility buffs, and gave Clans some pretty heavy nerfs, including a nerf to the Clan XL engine itself.

In other words, there's no possible way that Clans are STRONGER since last Tukayyid, so if the data shows Clans winning more than 53% of games in the end, PGI may as well throw out their data, because that would prove it isn't the tech that's influencing this event.

Careful, inner sphere tears will push pgi to nerf clans again just to make up for their terribleness.

IS pugs won't be happy until they can solo a clan team and win.

Teamwork and reasonable builds be damned!!!!!! CLAN MECHS OP!!!

[Zolaz]

yep ... looks like PGI got that balancing down to an art in the past 3 years.

[Mystere]

Mister D, on 04 December 2015 - 09:14 PM, said:

If he bumped it back up to 250, then he knows its not balanced yet.

Or he got weak-kneed again and succumbed to the whining.

[Mystere]

MechB Kotare, on 05 December 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

No one gives a slightest F about what you think it should be. Its 12 v 12 so deal with it.

Edit: They are supposed to be completely balanced in F2P title, so other IS trash isnt exchanged for Clan OPism in comp, Solo, or CW.

Would you still play Clans if it were 10 Clan vs. 12 IS, 240 tons vs. 260, and 1 drop vs. 4 drops?

[MechB Kotare]

Mystere, on 05 December 2015 - 05:26 PM, said:

Would you still play Clans if it were 10 Clan vs. 12 IS, 240 tons vs. 260, and 1 drop vs. 4 drops?

I'd play Clan (Smoke Jaguar) even if they were considerably Underpowered.

[Mystere]

MechB Kotare, on 05 December 2015 - 05:49 PM, said:

I'd play Clan (Smoke Jaguar) even if they were considerably Underpowered.

Then you wouldn't mind 10 vs. 12 and everything else lopsided against Clans.

[Vickinator]

Mystere, on 05 December 2015 - 06:25 PM, said:

Then you wouldn't mind 10 vs. 12 and everything else lopsided against Clans.

And I'm assuming knowing the average IS pilots he would still win.

[Mystere]

Vickinator, on 05 December 2015 - 06:46 PM, said:

And I'm assuming knowing the average IS pilots he would still win.

Then the Clans are doomed. They'll be nerfed until the only thing they can shoot are marshmallows ... and it might not even end there.

[MechB Kotare]

Mystere, on 05 December 2015 - 06:25 PM, said:

Then you wouldn't mind 10 vs. 12 and everything else lopsided against Clans.

Not really. I dont care about CW at all. But i would mind the fact that there are few to none IS mechs and IS players to fight in high tiers, considering people would try to get Better clan mechs as soon as possible, because they are better.

Psychology for new players "Oh i see clans have only 10 v 12 in CW, they must be better" really doesnt pay off as well.

Majority of players base would eventually switch to clans only.

So. To answer your questioning statement. I would mind.

[Vickinator]

Mystere, on 05 December 2015 - 06:52 PM, said:

Then the Clans are doomed. They'll be nerfed until the only thing they can shoot are marshmallows ... and it might not even end there.

Isn't this what IS players have been wanting since clans were introduced?

[Mystere]

Vickinator, on 05 December 2015 - 07:41 PM, said:

Isn't this what IS players have been wanting since clans were introduced?

As I have been saying all this time, it's a crusade, a decades-long crusade: