33 replies to this topic

[CF Alpha Scout]

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Battletech/MechWarrior. But, MechWarrior Online is so different than the other games, and not in a good way. Here's why:

1. Energy Weapons being nerfed to hell (pretty much every weapon now)

I swear, weapons on a 'Mech is bread and butter. But, when you nerf the living sh*t out one, then there's no point. Seriously, 2 PPC's in Mechwarrior 2 and on, should NOT EVER increase your heat to the point where you almost shut-down. Hell, firing even 3 PPC'S, in MechWarrior 4, your heat goes up to-say 50-70 percent. But in MWO, shut down time. And lasers and PPC's are hella fun to use in the Mechwarrior games. But now, in MWO, which is pretty much the only game you can play now on Windows 7, is completely useless. Why? Because of how ridiculously excessive the heat is when fired. When, even in other Mechwarrior games, (hell, even the Battletech tabletop and world itself) it isn't.

2. Pay to Win

This seems to be a problem with every game nowadays. But MechWarrior Online, it's annoying as all hell. Honestly, PGI seriously thinks that we'll buy into this crap. It isn't persuasive enough. Nor is it even persuasive at all. It is the easy-way-out in the entire game, goddamn it. Not much else.

3. OverNerf

Self-explanatory. Plain and simple. PGI listens too much advice from some scrub that doesn't even know about Battletech, and ruins the ENTIRE (yes, the entire game) and atmosphere. PGI, I, and in all seriousness, do NOT mean to be excessively critical towards you guys, I still have faith in guys over there. But, look closely at a good forum post, and think about it. Never, I mean EVER, listen to some n00bz attention post, unless there is a VERY good reason to listen.

Those are all the reasons why I won't be playing as often as I used to. I still have hope for this game. But, PGI, make this game better. Period. For now, good-bye

[El Bandito]

Mhmm, yeah ok, bye.

1. If energy weapons are nerfed to hell, then why is laservomit still the meta? And need I remind you that MWO is currently the most balanced Mechwarrior game to date? MW3 balance was ridiculous in comparison--as it was catered towards single player campaign game, with heavy emphasis on TT values. PPCs are PPFLD, which means it is very hard to balance without being abusable--exemplified by the 2013 poptart craze.

2. P2W issue is not as severe as other titles such as WoT. If there was ever any thing resembling P2W, it was mostly due to Clan packs. Dunno how the Origins IIC mechs will fare, but at least there is no golden ammo in MWO.

3. PGI by practice do not listen to forum posts. Haven't been doing that for a while. Twitter is what people use now. PGI simply took a look at the metrics and saw that Clan sides were objectively having more wins in basically all modes, and landed the nerf-stick. Was it too heavy? Time will tell, but some form of nerf was necessary. Buffing the other side will simply decrease TTK.

Edited by El Bandito, 05 December 2015 - 12:24 AM.

[Stelar 7]

1 of 10. Needs specifics and the appeal to tt is fail sauce.

[Ace Selin]

If you dont like PGI trying to balance the game between the opposing IS & Clan sides or trying to slow down the game (a little) then its a pitty.

But other than that No one cares if you leave dude, just leave quietly if you dont like the game.

[Elizander]

Those armies of P2W Gridirons, Dragon Slayers and Embers are really ruining the game.

[Sandpit]

CF Alpha Scout, on 04 December 2015 - 07:27 PM, said:

1. Energy Weapons being nerfed to hell (pretty much every weapon now)

huh?

CF Alpha Scout, on 04 December 2015 - 07:27 PM, said:

2. Pay to Win

I knew I should have stopped reading after #1...

CF Alpha Scout, on 04 December 2015 - 07:27 PM, said:

3. OverNerf

Normally I'd ask for clarification on this one but based on the first 2 reasons I doubt it would help...

1.) Energy weapons were buffed not nerfed
2.) This game is not now nor has it ever been P2W
3.) Every time something is changed it's results in "op" or "up"

also?
Your premise regarding heat in TT is ridiculously way off. Heat was extremely difficult to manage if you didn't understand it. I really don't understand what the basis for any of your reasons are honestly. None of them (except maybe 3 because that's opinion based) were even true...

[Triordinant]

[Novakaine]

Dang gummit that's Pa one less Clanker to shoot huh?

[Barfing Gopher]

I only disagree on the "pay to win" point, they may come out occasionally with a MC or HERO mech that has a small advantage, but it's always nerfed down to below trial mech status before long. (They do wait until they have all the money and can say it can't be refunded before doing it tho.) Because.... money.

Edited by Barfing Gopher, 04 December 2015 - 08:10 PM.

[Anjian]

Not Pay to Win but the game embodies some of the worst and most toxic elements of P2P games such as consumables and expensive, high grind modules.

Premiums are actually popular for P2P games, people do want them and buy them.

[Cyborne Elemental]

The mobility nerf is what killed it for me.

Slow-Motion-Warrior-Online, clumsy and sluggish mech response is annoying.

Game felt comfortable where it was, and I don't mind the Speedtweak being reduced, nor heatcap changes, but the way that twist speed reflex and acceleration got hit is driving me insane..

Why?
Because hitboxes are still as bad as ever, and now I can't twist fast enough to make it matter anyway.

Edited by Mister D, 04 December 2015 - 09:19 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

The most important sign that MWO is headed in the right direction is looking at all these ragequit-threads where I'm totally happy about everything the OP is complaining about.

People are complaining about stuff like:

• Serious nerfs to lasers and gauss rifles, which have been the most dominant weapons in MWO for, what, 12-18 months? That's longer than most people care to play a single game, never mind a single meta within that game.
  
• Suddenly Clans are no longer OP and everyone is going back to IS. This is seen as a warning sign, as if it's a good thing that one faction is consistently better for years, ever since it was first introduced.
  
• PGI is listening to the players too much. That's pretty hilarious, since they've stopped communicating with the players in basically every meaningful way possible. No more posting on the forums, no more monthly Ask the Devs and the Player Council was buried before it was even conceived. We get Town Hall meetings where the questions are filtered by NGNG and we get to send Russ some tweets with up to 140 characters. If PGI is listening to the players too much, I'd say we're headed in the right direction.
  
• Mechs are too slow and immobile, not agile enough. It's too hard to climb hills, it takes too long to turn around. Everything takes too long and TTK is getting too high!
  Really? Those are pretty much the defining characteristics of Mechwarrior, and what made the MW-games stand out in the first place, during the era of Doom, Quake, Unreal, etc. Even more so during the current days of COD, CS:GO, Battlefield, etc. Mechwarrior is finally going back to its roots!

And then there's the P2W argument, which is a separate issue. Unlike most other arguments, it's not an invalid argument. It's valid. It's important. But it's simply no longer a reliable argument. There's no empirical evidence to support it anymore. It was a good argument back when the Ilya Muromets or Dragon Slayers or Embers were top dogs. It was a good argument when the Clans were first introduced, and also when PGI added the Hellbringer. It may be a good argument in the future, when the Origin IIC mechs are introduced. But for the last 6 months, MWO hasn't been P2W at all.

[Sandpit]

Alistair Winter, on 04 December 2015 - 09:41 PM, said:

The most important sign that MWO is headed in the right direction is looking at all these ragequit-threads where I'm totally happy about everything the OP is complaining about.

People are complaining about stuff like:

• Serious nerfs to lasers and gauss rifles, which have been the most dominant weapons in MWO for, what, 12-18 months? That's longer than most people care to play a single game, never mind a single meta within that game.
  
• Suddenly Clans are no longer OP and everyone is going back to IS. This is seen as a warning sign, as if it's a good thing that one faction is consistently better for years, ever since it was first introduced.
  
• PGI is listening to the players too much. That's pretty hilarious, since they've stopped communicating with the players in basically every meaningful way possible. No more posting on the forums, no more monthly Ask the Devs and the Player Council was buried before it was even conceived. We get Town Hall meetings where the questions are filtered by NGNG and we get to send Russ some tweets with up to 140 characters. If PGI is listening to the players too much, I'd say we're headed in the right direction.
  
• Mechs are too slow and immobile, not agile enough. It's too hard to climb hills, it takes too long to turn around. Everything takes too long and TTK is getting too high!
  
  Really? Those are pretty much the defining characteristics of Mechwarrior, and what made the MW-games stand out in the first place, during the era of Doom, Quake, Unreal, etc. Even more so during the current days of COD, CS:GO, Battlefield, etc. Mechwarrior is finally going back to its roots!

And then there's the P2W argument, which is a separate issue. Unlike most other arguments, it's not an invalid argument. It's valid. It's important. But it's simply no longer a reliable argument. There's no empirical evidence to support it anymore. It was a good argument back when the Ilya Muromets or Dragon Slayers or Embers were top dogs. It was a good argument when the Clans were first introduced, and also when PGI added the Hellbringer. It may be a good argument in the future, when the Origin IIC mechs are introduced. But for the last 6 months, MWO hasn't been P2W at all.

I think you're going to see more of the "arcade" crowd filtering out and more of the "purists" filtering back in. I'm already seeing it in Marik and in games and on the forums.

[KHETTI]

I don't get the complaining about the rebalancing in the recent patch, its not perfect, but its very much in the right direction.
As for p2w, tbh most hero mechs are garbage, seriously, i have a few and the only ones that i personally find were worth the cash is the YLW and TDK.

How is balance worse than it was before? LRM boats are viable now(if you use them right), i'm seeing shelved mechs make a come back, new builds based on the somewhat better balanced laservomit, more variety is good, no?.

[Cyborne Elemental]

The mobility nerf is actually lowering TTK, not raising it.

Because people can't twist out damage as effectively, or evade by changing direction and speed, its even easier to core out players.

Edited by Mister D, 04 December 2015 - 10:15 PM.

[LordNothing]

my 3 reasons for not playing as much are:

1. kerbal space program
2. minecraft
3. elite dangerous

be better than the competition pgi.

Edited by LordNothing, 04 December 2015 - 10:19 PM.

[DiGCliff]

Mister D, on 04 December 2015 - 10:14 PM, said:

The mobility nerf is actually lowering TTK, not raising it.

Because people can't twist out damage as effectively, or evade by changing direction and speed, its even easier to core out players.

um do you move the mech when you twist man i spread hella laser damage in my victor an that thing moves like a sack of potatoes normally. i think you need to just try and look at that again i have had no issues playing like a normally do.

[Johnny Z]

Alistair Winter, on 04 December 2015 - 09:41 PM, said:

The most important sign that MWO is headed in the right direction is looking at all these ragequit-threads where I'm totally happy about everything the OP is complaining about.

People are complaining about stuff like:

• Serious nerfs to lasers and gauss rifles, which have been the most dominant weapons in MWO for, what, 12-18 months? That's longer than most people care to play a single game, never mind a single meta within that game.
  
• Suddenly Clans are no longer OP and everyone is going back to IS. This is seen as a warning sign, as if it's a good thing that one faction is consistently better for years, ever since it was first introduced.
  
• PGI is listening to the players too much. That's pretty hilarious, since they've stopped communicating with the players in basically every meaningful way possible. No more posting on the forums, no more monthly Ask the Devs and the Player Council was buried before it was even conceived. We get Town Hall meetings where the questions are filtered by NGNG and we get to send Russ some tweets with up to 140 characters. If PGI is listening to the players too much, I'd say we're headed in the right direction.
  
• Mechs are too slow and immobile, not agile enough. It's too hard to climb hills, it takes too long to turn around. Everything takes too long and TTK is getting too high!
  Really? Those are pretty much the defining characteristics of Mechwarrior, and what made the MW-games stand out in the first place, during the era of Doom, Quake, Unreal, etc. Even more so during the current days of COD, CS:GO, Battlefield, etc. Mechwarrior is finally going back to its roots!

And then there's the P2W argument, which is a separate issue. Unlike most other arguments, it's not an invalid argument. It's valid. It's important. But it's simply no longer a reliable argument. There's no empirical evidence to support it anymore. It was a good argument back when the Ilya Muromets or Dragon Slayers or Embers were top dogs. It was a good argument when the Clans were first introduced, and also when PGI added the Hellbringer. It may be a good argument in the future, when the Origin IIC mechs are introduced. But for the last 6 months, MWO hasn't been P2W at all.

About the start of this reply. Your right. The reasons the OP gave have nothing to with battletech or atmosphere or balance. His reasons were that over powered easy mode is not as strong in the game. Has it been entirely removed and there is balance to the point all players have an equal chance? That remains to be seen.

The replies that there will never be perfect balance, so don't even try are ridiculous.

Achieving balance over 100+ entirely different mechs with literally thousands if not millions of load out variations, WHILE at the same time keeping Inner Sphere and Clan character in tact is a MASSIVE undertaking.

Anyone with even half a brain or even the guys in units sharing a single brain can tell this is the toughest balancing in any game ever made. And yet petty complaints continue making the complainers look like giant man babies.

I have no idea how perfect balance is at the moment and most players have no idea either. It will take a while for any problems to show up and make themselves evident. The matches I have played have shown themselves to be a picture of balance perfection so far but that is only like 8 matches since the latest very large update.

Maybe the Gauss rifle refire rate topics have a point. I think there is still a problem with Inner Sphere XL insta blow on principle, but aside from those two I have yet to see any valid complaints.

The guys doing balance for this game deserve a FN trophy for even attempting it. To them I say well done so far. To anyone that doesn't first give them grats before complaining, you show yourselves to be desperate trolls.


To those that think balance shouldn't be a goal for what ever lame reason. All games ever made try to achieve balance in some form for what ever reaons. Period. If this game manages it then all their mechs can be sold for profit instead of one or two. All the work down by the mech builders is being made the most of and enjoyed by players who maybe don't want the entire game to be one or two mechs for what ever reason. I could go on because that's just the tip of the ice burg.

I am trying another game that must be made by Electronic Arts behind the scenes its so greedy. Total pay to win. You pay its a massacre anyone who doesn't pay faces. Or even those that pay reasonable sums. Only the big spenders can basically abuse anyone else not spending big. That's the opposite of what this game is trying to do. I hope anyone seeing this reply reads this far and knows that and can figure it out. This game isn't being greedy by going for balance and giving the guy in a F2P hunchback a chance and that's smart and more profitable in the long run. Sell content, atmosphere, stories, not easy mode.

+1 for a good game.

Edited by Johnny Z, 04 December 2015 - 11:59 PM.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Sandpit, on 04 December 2015 - 07:45 PM, said:

Your premise regarding heat in TT is ridiculously way off. Heat was extremely difficult to manage if you didn't understand it. I really don't understand what the basis for any of your reasons are honestly. None of them (except maybe 3 because that's opinion based) were even true...

Everything is difficult if you don't understand it.

Battletech heat is however extremely easy to learn.

Weapon heat values are listed on the sheet.

Walking generates 1 heat, running generates 2 heat., jumping generates heat equal to the number of hexes moved, flamers add 2 heat, each critical hit generates 5 heat and once you're done adding up the heat generated you remove an amount equal to the number of heat sinks you have and that's it for the base game.

Sure you can add in inferno SRMs, plasma rifles, incendiary bombs from aerospace fighters, ambient conditions, super chargers, wind effects, being under water, etc etc etc but even then it's more a matter of being able to read a chart than anything complex.

[Sandpit]

Mister D, on 04 December 2015 - 10:14 PM, said:

The mobility nerf is actually lowering TTK, not raising it.

Because people can't twist out damage as effectively, or evade by changing direction and speed, its even easier to core out players.

Except the people who do and can you mean