41 replies to this topic

[Aeryk Corsaer]

I have not played Hunchbacks much nor AC20 types either. Tried to look for a build I could make that would make this enjoyable for me. Admittedly it would be pretty expensive and a bit risky with an XL but I think it would be an effective Brawler with good ability to damage while closing. I am basing the hardpoints available on the dated MechLab video where each arm has three energy hardpoints and the center torso/head have three also.

50 Ton modified Hunchback HBK-4G with 4/6 movement and 12 double efficiency heatsinks. The 200 Nissan engine is an extralight and the internal structure is rebuilt with endosteel. All the weapon systems of the base model were removed. Armor is standard for the Hunchback base model.

Weaponry consists of a PPC, Medium Pulse, and Flamer on each Arm plus 2 Medium Pulse in the Center Torso and a fifth one located in the Head. Discounting the Flamers (added for flair), the longer ranged dual PPC's and the in-your-face quintet of Medium Pulse have the same "heat signature" and are not intended to be both fired together. The two PPC are used at range and, once under the minimum range of the PPC especially, the five Medium Pulse are for brawling range.

I had two machine guns plus a ton of ammo originally replacing the old AC20 rather than the arm mounted flamers but decided no ammo was the way to go on this build. Anyway, this is one build I may try to use when things get going as an alternative to the standard Hunchback. I feel it has ranged firepower the base Hunchback lacks but still has impressive brawling firepower in the five pulse lasers and has two flamers for whatever utility use they have also. The XL Engine gained me four tons to upgrade four lasers to Pulse but makes it more vulnerable.

The way Pulse Laser technology is implemented will define how effective this 'variant' of mine can be. In TT BattleTech, they reduced your chance to hit by (-2), which was a good thing and did more damage but has 66% of the range when talking of the medium version. Are they just boosting the cycle rate so you fire faster or what? Please comment on this, the 'Mech, or anything else that seems to apply...

Edited by Aeryk Corsaer, 11 July 2012 - 04:19 AM.

[MC Hammer]

Hard points will not allow for your mech, sorry

[Aeryk Corsaer]

MC Hammer, on 11 July 2012 - 04:19 AM, said:

Hard points will not allow for your mech, sorry

So they have changed since the MechLab video for sure???

[Riffleman]

Yup you cant fit that many things inside. The best I could come up with was a 5/8 movement mech with ferro armor, endo steel internal, 10 double heatsinks, 3 medium lasers, and a gauss riffle with 2 tons of ammo. Kinda underwhelming compared to your design isnt it? But hey no xl engine to asplode killing you, and it moves faster at least.

Edited by Riffleman, 11 July 2012 - 04:25 AM.

[MC Hammer]

According to the video, you should be allowed 4 beam and 1 balistic

[Stray Ion]

i'm not sure about the head, but you can put 2 medium lasers on the CT if you drop the small laser and heat sink.

The arms can hold 1 PPC 1 Medium Laser and 1 flamer as combined they only take up 5 crit spaces and and each arm has 8 free and 3 energy weapon hardpoints.

The machine guns are not an issue as the RT has 12 crits free and can hold up to 3 ballistic weapons.

If you can manage the weight, you should be able to build it. Just watched the mech lab video again

Edited by Stray Ion, 11 July 2012 - 04:43 AM.

[Moriarte]

A brawler with an XL-engine is a contradictio intermo.

[Aeryk Corsaer]

MC Hammer, on 11 July 2012 - 04:26 AM, said:

According to the video, you should be allowed 4 beam and 1 balistic

The video shows three energy on each arm plus centerline energy hardpoints...

[Jost]

Are we sure that the video shows the _Founders_ variant as it will be at time of release?

[Odanan]

MC Hammer, on 11 July 2012 - 04:26 AM, said:

According to the video, you should be allowed 4 beam and 1 balistic

3 beam weapons, as the mech has 2 Medium Lasers and 1 Small Laser.

I always suggest XL for smaller* mechs.

Here are my builds:

XL Engine
Replace the 2 Medium Lasers by 2 Large Lasers
Replace the AC/20 by an AC/10 (3 tons of ammo)
Remove 3 heat sinks and make it doubles.
Remove the Small Laser for additional 0.5 ton of armor

That's a middle range fighter. Shoot and get behind cover. All weapons have the same range.

or one even better:

XL Engine (upgrade to 6/10, much faster)
Replace the 2 Medium Lasers and 1 Small Laser by 3 ER Medium Lasers
Replace the AC/20 by an AC/10 (4 tons of ammo)
Remove 3 heat sinks and make it doubles.
Add 0.5 ton of armor

Because of the speed, that's an excellent flanker/scout hunter. You can get into the action and hold the fire button, moving to the backs of the bigger mechs.

*Steiner perspective.

PS: the Hunchie can't have XL Engine and AC/20 at the same time.

[Uri Brauer]

You may want to take a look at my Laserboating thread over in the Suggestions forum. My Hunchhammer's pretty close to this, but without so much tech.

You probably won't get enough energy hardpoints for this from the 4G.

Edited by Uri Brauer, 11 July 2012 - 12:57 PM.

[Stray Ion]

Jost, on 11 July 2012 - 04:55 AM, said:

Are we sure that the video shows the _Founders_ variant as it will be at time of release?

I am pretty sure, Paul chose the general hunchback in that vid. Founders Hunchback is the same thing, it just looks slightly different and has a different skin. The hardpoints and crit space should be the same.

[Tezkat]

Aeryk Corsaer, on 11 July 2012 - 04:18 AM, said:

The way Pulse Laser technology is implemented will define how effective this 'variant' of mine can be. In TT BattleTech, they reduced your chance to hit by (-2), which was a good thing and did more damage but has 66% of the range when talking of the medium version. Are they just boosting the cycle rate so you fire faster or what? Please comment on this, the 'Mech, or anything else that seems to apply...

The official word is somewhat ambiguous...

Quote

[DAVID] A standard laser fires a continuous beam that applies damage over time while it remains on. A pulse laser fires a continuous beam that blinks on and off. (Not the blaster bolt style of light ‘bullets’ that fly at the target.) Damage is applied in short bursts each time the laser blinks on.

I suspect pulse lasers in MWO will see treatment somewhat similar to in MWLL. Instead of the second-long sustained beam, they had a tight burst of three blasts a fraction of a second apart with a slightly faster cycle time, shorter range, and deeper heat footprint.

Aeryk Corsaer, on 11 July 2012 - 04:22 AM, said:

So they have changed since the MechLab video for sure???

If you look in the recent MechLab screenshots, which are newer than the video, you can see can see that the hardpoints in the prime variant have already changed since the video:

Ballistic - 2 RT
Energy - 2 in each arm, 1 in the head

They don't actually show the center torso, so the hardpoints there may or may not have changed, but it's reasonable to assume that they've seen a reduction similar to the rest of the parts.

Hardpoints seem to be among the hardest things to balance at the design phase and are likely to continue changing over the course of the beta.

Edited by Tezkat, 11 July 2012 - 05:23 AM.

[Comguard]

Why do some builds differ so vastly from the original? The spirit of the design is completely lost.

Just close your eyes:

"2 PPCs, 5 Medium Pulse, 1 Flammer"

Of what mech do you think?

That has nothing to do with a Hunchback. I don't like such more or less random modifications - then why not take the 50ton Chassis of a Centurion, or a different 50ton Chassis? The "idea" of a mech design is completely lost by such variants that have nothing to do with the original.

[Name48928]

Beta is beta. Make plans and assumptions based on beta footage and you're gonna have a bad time.

[Der Zivilist]

1.) You are correct in your statement that the Hunchback in the 'Mechlab video had three hardpoints per base weapon, i.e. three enrgy hardpoints in each arm and three in the center torso, plus three ballistic hardpoints in the the right torso.

2.) Hardpoints have changed at least once since then, to a 1:1 configuration. They may or may not change back, or come up with something else entirely. It's still a beta test. Things change every day. You won't know for sure until launch.

3.) If you must go for an XL engine, at least make it 5/8 speed so you can actually dictate whichever range you want.

[Viper69]

Edited: Thanks Der Zivilist for pointing out what I thoroughly missed.

Edited by Viper69, 11 July 2012 - 05:53 AM.

[Der Zivilist]

His build does not include an AC/20 or any other ammo consuming weapon. Please at least read his post instead of reading "XL engine" and triggering a Pavlovian response.

[Tezkat]

Comguard, on 11 July 2012 - 05:33 AM, said:

Why do some builds differ so vastly from the original? The spirit of the design is completely lost.

Just close your eyes:

"2 PPCs, 5 Medium Pulse, 1 Flammer"

Of what mech do you think?

That has nothing to do with a Hunchback. I don't like such more or less random modifications - then why not take the 50ton Chassis of a Centurion, or a different 50ton Chassis? The "idea" of a mech design is completely lost by such variants that have nothing to do with the original.

How is it so different from the popular Swayback line and related Hunchie variants? The XL engine, double heatsinks, and heavy beam weapons make it look rather like a Swayback IIC, to be honest...

[Viper69]

Der Zivilist, on 11 July 2012 - 05:46 AM, said:

His build does not include an AC/20 or any other ammo consuming weapon. Please at least read his post instead of reading "XL engine" and triggering a Pavlovian response.

Good point, totally missed the "removed AC 20 for PPC" part.

It definitely changes the mech from a short range brawler to more of a long range hit and runner.