30 replies to this topic

[ManDaisy]

Premise: Mwo ideally should feel like massive TACTICAL mech combat:

Problem: Slow growling player base and lack of cohesiveness in games.
Problem: META mix of only specific weapons.

Solution: Implement AI to fill/ shape/ improve combat. Improve weapon diversity.

Format:

AI should take forms such as:

MECHS (house faction specific AI) in addition to player drops:
Example: Reduce live players back to 8 versus 8. Add 8 AI bots to each side. The game then becomes 16 versus 16. The clutch is will the 8 players on each side support their AI or not. AI mechs in addition can be more role specific designs, as they are to be effective not enjoyable (because AI pilots).

Vehicles
Aerospace


AI can be used to player shape, as in perform tactics. Etc etc.
Perform weapons balance etc.
Fill in tier difficulty balances.

AI should not be commanded by players, but by AI itself.

Edited by ManDaisy, 06 December 2015 - 09:38 PM.

[Signal27]

Well, I'm all for A.I. opponents and the implementation of some form of PvE. Armored Warfare is a new game in open beta that is run similarly to MWO even though it's about modern tanks, but they figured out a way to make players VS A.I. work and in fact some players even say they prefer PvE over PvP.

[Impyrium]

I don't think AI will ever have its place in the regular game modes, simply because the game has already grounded itself pretty firmly as a competitive PvP shooter. For better or worse.

Where AI could be implemented though? Patrolling AI units in Assault Mode rather than the turrets we had before, or an entire new game mode that themed itself on having AI assets in some way or another, similar to as you suggested. Or perhaps in CW, although can you really imagine a tank making sense on many of the maps in CW?

'Mech AI is a complex beast that I'm not sure will ever get to the stage where it's usable on regular maps just due to the very non-open way they've designed them, but it'd certainly be interesting to see in the future.

[Bonger Bob]

lololololololol

look at what has taken 3 years for PGI to achieve, which is still largely a beta mess ( CW ), and the "balancing" changes, new mechs adding more problems to the balancing issues, and thats before you get into the complexities of having an AI vs AI with human players in the mix.

lolololololololol

real AI would be monumental achievement for PGI, hence why its never gonna happen.

they can't even get basic collisions right......

Edited by Bonger Bob, 06 December 2015 - 11:33 PM.

[Lynx7725]

Well I was just thinking, we got all those stock mechs that nobody wants to use, but they are stock for a reason.. so why not put AI pilots into those builds instead.

Just imagine, you attack into Mining Collective, only to run into a sea of AI Urbanmechs....

[William Mountbank]

ManDaisy, on 06 December 2015 - 09:35 PM, said:

Problem: Slow growling player base.

You just summed up the whole MWO experience right there.

[Sarlic]

I think it's all too little too late for the current Founders. However, i am sure PGI is setting their goal to accomplish a new target audiance by pushing a Steam release.

From that point it could be interesting. The question remains: how many of that large influx will stay to play the game. This game doesnt exactly promote long retention.

Same story, different players.

Edited by Sarlic, 07 December 2015 - 12:29 AM.

[MauttyKoray]

I'd personally rather see a separate PVE mode first so that new players could have a less abusive way to enter the game and learn piloting skills, get used to piloting the mechs, and earn some CBills.

After that the inclusion of PVE elements into PVP such as tanks/choppers defending the base, maybe some AI mech defenders on Assault. Even a Lance of AI mechs fighting with you in skirmish would be neat.

[Kissamies]

Yes, pure PvE would be the way to approach this at least initially. Put a lance of player mechs against a company of AI vehicles. Let them feel like kings of the battlefield the mechs are supposed to be.

[Lynx7725]

Kissamies, on 07 December 2015 - 02:39 AM, said:

Yes, pure PvE would be the way to approach this at least initially. Put a lance of player mechs against a company of AI vehicles. Let them feel like kings of the battlefield the mechs are supposed to be.

Yes I'm sure. One lance vs. a company of Alacorns, or Savannah Masters, or Shreks, or Demolishers.

[Kissamies]

Or Galleons, Strikers, Pegasi or maybe an odd Manticore or Patton. They could also spawn a lance at time. The players could vote for difficulty setting or it could be automatically decided by their tiers.

[sycocys]

We'd just use the AI as free armor. But honestly it shouldn't be too hard to write AI that out performs many of this game's pilots. Firing at the enemy would be an improvement in many cases.

[Lynx7725]

sycocys, on 07 December 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:

We'd just use the AI as free armor. But honestly it shouldn't be too hard to write AI that out performs many of this game's pilots. Firing at the enemy would be an improvement in many cases.

Snort. I think the main problem is not getting the AI accused of aimbotting.

Oh wait.

[zagibu]

Ideally, the AI would not pilot mechs, but other combat units.

[Tombstoner]

How do you propose to solve the massively divergent levels in gunnery skill between an AI and a human. The only thing that can work is a random number generator. Also know as a cone of fire.
Its one thing to put skill based targeting one on one with people.

I realize people will overlook the irony that its ok for the AI not players to have a COF. Suggesting that we use COF to address inter weapon/clan tech balance in MWO is anathema to the word "SKILL"....

The use of AI will require a COF in-order to match AI skill levels with human. That's fine but not giving the COF to both types of players is reducing the game into a 2d6 x or better to win. How would that happen is simple.The AI's skill is proportional to yours. you deliberate miss multiple times to force the AI to an artificially lower skill level. That lets you close range and do head shots or rear torso hits. This kind of thing forces the developers to write code to counter this sort of thing. With min max gaming learning how to manipulate the AI is far game.

I'm all for PVE content but the only way it can work is if both AI's and humans have a tune-able COF to correct for the AI's literally perfect aim. An AI can head shot you every time at max range as soon as you peek from cover.... Anything else is simple a 2d6 x or better to win.

Edited by Tombstoner, 07 December 2015 - 07:53 AM.

[Lynx7725]

Shrug, just determine if the AI would hit the target, then just random table the hit location. Also, just stuff AI into stock IS mechs...

[LordKnightFandragon]

Signal27, on 06 December 2015 - 10:26 PM, said:

Well, I'm all for A.I. opponents and the implementation of some form of PvE. Armored Warfare is a new game in open beta that is run similarly to MWO even though it's about modern tanks, but they figured out a way to make players VS A.I. work and in fact some players even say they prefer PvE over PvP.

I would love some PVE even half as good as AW has atm.

Lynx7725, on 07 December 2015 - 07:03 AM, said:

Snort. I think the main problem is not getting the AI accused of aimbotting.

Oh wait.

That really is the issue, making them so they dont just auto aim ur CT/Head from every where.....

[Rhaythe]

Y'know, at this point, I think I'd be all right with a pseudo-MOBA setting for Community Warfare that featured AI-controlled creeps in the form of tanks and VTOLs... maybe with a few AgroMechs included in the mix for flavor. At least it's something different, and the maps are pretty much already built with a MOBA-like mentality in mind.

[Signal27]

Rhaythe, on 07 December 2015 - 07:56 AM, said:

Y'know, at this point, I think I'd be all right with a pseudo-MOBA setting for Community Warfare that featured AI-controlled creeps in the form of tanks and VTOLs... maybe with a few AgroMechs included in the mix for flavor. At least it's something different, and the maps are pretty much already built with a MOBA-like mentality in mind.

That could be a good idea for the Community Warfare maps. Players can defend against a steady stream of A.I. that keeps rolling down each lane into the base, and they are unlimited. The objective is to hold out a certain amount of time.

On the attack, players have to fight through a lot of static defenses plus a steady stream of A.I. opponents that spawn and run down each lane, stopping to fight any players they see. That'd be neat.

[Sandpit]

Nothing against AI or SP

Not important, vital, needed, etc. for the "next phase" of MWO. Too many other things still need too much attention.

No AI opponents in MP matches.
Period
Static defenses are fine, I'm not interested in fighting a bunch of AI mechs. Play a single player game or, when multiplayer and CW are finally done enough to hit cruise control, start working on a single player or co-op mode. Keep that out of the multiplayer experience though please.