50 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 08 December 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:

I guess I'll try and piggy-back my idea into your thread since I've been shower-beer storming when not studying for exams.

I basically came up with two ideas to help consolidate queues:

First idea:
Consolidate factions. Make Davion and Steiner into the Federated Commonwealth (which it should be anyway), have Kurita and FRR become allies (as they were on friendly terms after the FRR was formed, especially after the Ronin incident), and have Marik and Liao be allies as they were frequent trade partners.

That cuts the IS queues in half and helps to consolidate players onto fewer planets, leading to more matching.


Second Idea:
Reduce the active planets per faction by half. As is currently, a faction has two planets active with any adjacent faction: one attack and one defend. Reduce this to a rotation of one planet per adjacent faction and have it rotate between defending a planet or attacking a planet.

This would significantly help out factions like the FRR where they have lanes from Clan Wolf, Clan Ghost Bear, the DCMS, and the LCAF. That's eight planets that are currently contested, then when the other two clans hit them (which doesn't take long) there are suddenly twelve planets for the FRR, so they either go full defense and hope to keep all twelve or full offense and hope that they can break even.

If they reduce it to where one phase they defend against CGB, attack Wolf, defend against Steiner, and attack Kurita; and for the following phase they attack CGB, defend against Wolf, attack Steiner, and defend against Kurita. This helps to consolidate players, leading to faster CW matching and possibly better matching in general. So instead of the FRR having 120 players spread among eight planets, they have 120 players spread among four.

This also makes defending worlds a bit more important, as if you lose a planet you may not get the chance to attack that planet next phase, and there is no possibility for simply doing a swap where FRR loses planet X to Wolf but gains planet Y from Wolf.


Basically, PGI just needs to consolidate the queues.

That's just it though. The suggestion I made above gives you the freedom to do all of that as needed in the game without forcing it and making it anything permanent. It allows you to do any and everything you just suggested

pwnface, on 08 December 2015 - 01:41 PM, said:

Actually I think this is a great idea. It doesn't remove choice from a faction but still reduces the amount of queues available. Factions can still target another faction to focus on and it would also slow things down in terms of how many planets can be taken a day. Alternating attack/defend queues for each border every day is probably the best idea I've heard for helping to fix the CW queues.

you sat there and specifically stated you didn't like "PGI controlling the map" and that was your sticking point and then turn around and agree with someone else suggesting the same thing.

I'm beginning to think you're just chasing me around and being a bit trolly sir

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Sandpit, on 08 December 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

That's just it though. The suggestion I made above gives you the freedom to do all of that as needed in the game without forcing it and making it anything permanent. It allows you to do any and everything you just suggested

I like your initial idea, I was just looking at making it a bit more automated and a little less hand-on for PGI to leave them time to work on other things.

I do very much like the idea of seasons and think that's how it should have been from the get go.

[pwnface]

Sandpit, on 08 December 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

you sat there and specifically stated you didn't like "PGI controlling the map" and that was your sticking point and then turn around and agree with someone else suggesting the same thing.

I'm beginning to think you're just chasing me around and being a bit trolly sir

You think way too highly of yourself sir and your reading comprehension sucks. I've been saying the entire time that taking away player choice from what planets they can attack would turn off a segment of the CW population. Scarlett Johan's suggestion does not change player choice but merely changes the pace.

Kurita can still focus their efforts on attacking/defending Marik every single ceasefire if they wanted to, instead of being told by PGI "nope sorry no purple fried chicken this week". It isn't possible to have faction rivalries if PGI artificially dictates two factions can't fight against each other. I never said I wasn't in favor of changes to how CW worked, merely that artificially telling factions what factions they can or can't attack or defend is a bad idea. Without these types of choices, CW would be a meaningless game mode to me and might as well just be invasion drops in the public queue.

Edited by pwnface, 08 December 2015 - 02:50 PM.

[Kin3ticX]

i'd like to see support for unit-unit cbill transfers so that people can RP hire each other


What should you be able to buy with unit coffers besides having to pay travel and repair fees or something?

[pwnface]

Kin3ticX, on 08 December 2015 - 02:58 PM, said:

i'd like to see support for unit-unit cbill transfers so that people can RP hire each other


What should you be able to buy with unit coffers besides having to pay travel and repair fees or something?

I'd like to hire Kin3ticX for some hot BJ action in the Inner Sphere.

[Sandpit]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 08 December 2015 - 02:07 PM, said:

I like your initial idea, I was just looking at making it a bit more automated and a little less hand-on for PGI to leave them time to work on other things.

I do very much like the idea of seasons and think that's how it should have been from the get go.

They wouldn't need to do anything more than they do now. It would be compeltely automated like you're suggesting, except it wouldn't be permanent. PGI can periodically review the stats and make adjustments on borders as needed to help maintain balance.

Other than that it's identical to what you're suggesting.

Kin3ticX, on 08 December 2015 - 02:58 PM, said:

i'd like to see support for unit-unit cbill transfers so that people can RP hire each other


What should you be able to buy with unit coffers besides having to pay travel and repair fees or something?

I was hoping that eventually we could look into unit mech bays. Instead of trial mechs we can use unit coffers to buy unit mechs. Then our new recruits and players would have immediate access to more optimized equipment.

[pwnface]

I think having 1-3 month long seasons where the map is reset is a really good idea. Giving factions money to spend on actually hiring merc units would be a really cool idea to help balance as well.

Above all, I'd love for there to be some kind of logistics aspect of moving dropships or troops around. Being able to instantly drop anywhere on the map makes for easier matchmaking but is a lot less cool than only being able to used garrisoned mechs. I've also heard people suggest that units be allowed to purchase unit owned mechs that can be shared amongst multiple players. If someone new jumps into CW and doesn't have a full drop deck ready, it would be cool to be able to loan them a mech or two until they are ready with their own drop deck.

[Sandpit]

pwnface, on 08 December 2015 - 03:30 PM, said:

I think having 1-3 month long seasons where the map is reset is a really good idea. Giving factions money to spend on actually hiring merc units would be a really cool idea to help balance as well.

Above all, I'd love for there to be some kind of logistics aspect of moving dropships or troops around. Being able to instantly drop anywhere on the map makes for easier matchmaking but is a lot less cool than only being able to used garrisoned mechs. I've also heard people suggest that units be allowed to purchase unit owned mechs that can be shared amongst multiple players. If someone new jumps into CW and doesn't have a full drop deck ready, it would be cool to be able to loan them a mech or two until they are ready with their own drop deck.

I love all of those ideas, but again, baby steps.

I think by going with seasons, making it into a big deal and setting up some of the things we're suggesting they would build a lot more interest and population in CW. THEN we start hitting them with more advanced ideas. It has to start with that first step though which is what I'm hoping we can come up with in this thread.

I want people to poke holes into our ideas. That way we can fill them up and fix them before we have a "consolidated" type suggestion to start promoting and getting PGI to take notice of. I've done it before with other topics, but it takes work and staying on topic though.

[Helene de Montfort]

I must say that the current choice we have in attacking planets is fairly artificial. You have a big choice of planets to invade or defend, but when you look at where actual fight is going on, there's only from 2 to 6 planets contested.

So, what's really the point? No planet is different from the other, they all have the same zones. No planet have more strategical value, it doesn't matter if you lose a given planet or another, or if you win a planet or another.

Should it be the case? I don't think so, we are all lambda mechwarriors, which is fine. We aren't Hanse Davion or Katrina Steiner, we are the numerous faceless warriors engaged in the wars they decide to fight (Well, i have met a few "Hanse Davion" on the battlefield, but i don't think they count). And i'm fine with this, i don't want to be the "hero", i'm perfectly fine being just another mechwarrior. Strategical decisions are made by generals, rulers, big people that don't really have their place in frontline. The actual fighting is made by us, the mechwarriors, either regulars or mercenaries. We are many, we are expendable, our mechs have more value than our skin. This is what it mean, imo, to be a Mechwarrior.

[Sandpit]

Helene de Montfort, on 08 December 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

I must say that the current choice we have in attacking planets is fairly artificial. You have a big choice of planets to invade or defend, but when you look at where actual fight is going on, there's only from 2 to 6 planets contested.

So, what's really the point? No planet is different from the other, they all have the same zones. No planet have more strategical value, it doesn't matter if you lose a given planet or another, or if you win a planet or another.

Should it be the case? I don't think so, we are all lambda mechwarriors, which is fine. We aren't Hanse Davion or Katrina Steiner, we are the numerous faceless warriors engaged in the wars they decide to fight (Well, i have met a few "Hanse Davion" on the battlefield, but i don't think they count). And i'm fine with this, i don't want to be the "hero", i'm perfectly fine being just another mechwarrior. Strategical decisions are made by generals, rulers, big people that don't really have their place in frontline. The actual fighting is made by us, the mechwarriors, either regulars or mercenaries. We are many, we are expendable, our mechs have more value than our skin. This is what it mean, imo, to be a Mechwarrior.

Well I think this could potentially give those who want "more" like what you're discussing a chance to get to that point as well.

PGI already controls the map anyhow. Why not fluff it up, create an actual war environment, and tell the story of this grandiose intergalactic war taking place around us. One tournament a month on a smaller scale similar to Tuk, then cap it off with Tuk.

Better yet, I keep seeing "we want Terra", ok how about this? Tuke decides the winning faction who then goes on to Terra and fights against Comstar (PGI & Friends) and see if they CAN take Terra and then end the season.

It generates a lot more excitement about the mode and gives actual goals to strive for besides just changing the color on a map.

[pwnface]

Sandpit, on 08 December 2015 - 05:15 PM, said:

Better yet, I keep seeing "we want Terra", ok how about this? Tuke decides the winning faction who then goes on to Terra and fights against Comstar (PGI & Friends) and see if they CAN take Terra and then end the season.

PGI devs are ridiculously bad at this game, maybe need to give them aimbots to make it a challenge.

[Sandpit]

pwnface, on 08 December 2015 - 11:29 PM, said:

PGI devs are ridiculously bad at this game, maybe need to give them aimbots to make it a challenge.

I know, but wouldn't it be fun? Also a great way for PGI to interact with the community in the game and have some fun with it. I wouldn't even care if they got nukes lol

Some people take this game waaaaaaaaaay too seriously. Like getting upset over the Tuk banner. It's a game. It's lighthearted ribbing. Now PGI can get out there and take some of their lumps as well

[pwnface]

Sandpit, on 08 December 2015 - 11:35 PM, said:

Some people take this game waaaaaaaaaay too seriously. Like getting upset over the Tuk banner. It's a game. It's lighthearted ribbing. Now PGI can get out there and take some of their lumps as well

I tend to take this game pretty seriously because I like to win, but people complaining about a stupid banner is absolutely ridiculous. I don't understand players that care so much about event cockpit items.

[vandalhooch]

Let members of each faction vote on what their faction's wars and alliances will be. The higher a pilot's loyalty rank in their faction the more votes they get. Loyalists get a larger voice in the direction of the war with mercenaries getting a smaller say. Loyalist mercenaries however could end up with a larger voice.

Each IS faction gets three options for two weeks or a month or whatever time frame works. Each Clan faction gets only two options.

Example, Kurita pilots vote to attack SJ and Davion, while allying with FRR. For the next few weeks, those are the only options available for all Kurita pilots. Kurita can launch attacks on only two planets and can only defend their own planets or planets of their allies. Kurita pilots can not drop in defense of a Steiner world against Jade Falcon.

You could add diplomatic complexity by requiring that in order for an alliance to be established, both factions must vote for the alliance. If one faction fails to make the alliance one of their top choices then their potential partner loses that option for that cycle. Factions could vote to attack a neighbor that they previously had on neutral, betrayal! The defenders would be unable to counter attack until the next voting cycle and it would cost them dropping one of their previous options. There is now a place for self-appointed diplomats to work on establishing lines of communication between factions as well as convincing the greater majority of pilots within their faction to uphold their diplomatic agreements.

The number of planets contested during each attack phase would be greatly reduced. Defending groups made up of PUGs would be more likely to be in the same faction encouraging cooperation as pilots get to see the same teammates over and over. No more skittles!

The rate of the clan invasion would be slowed as a single large clan faction could take at most two planets per phase and that would come at the cost of not having any allies to defend their own planets from counter attacks. If a clan decides to attack two others then they must also defend their own worlds by themselves. Wolf could focus on FRR or Steiner but likely not both. Falcons would likely attack Steiner and then could advocate for an alliance with only one other clan faction.

A further complexity would be the option for an IS faction and Clan to vote for alliance. Think Nova Cat and Kurita from lore. Imagine a Davion attacker facing a mixed PUG defense team made up of both Kurita and Falcon pilots at the same time.

All of this would be predicated on PGI implementing some sort of system that rewards units/factions for successful captures or defenses of planets however.

[Kdogg788]

I'm not going to write a book on this as above, but I agree with many points...

1. Limit the attack lanes. CW will have more meaning if you eliminate all the 0/0 attack lanes.
2. Let factions vote every 2 weeks on who to war with. The algorithm will still choose the planet. Factions should ideally only be at war with a max of 2 factions.
3. Unit to unit transfers, hell no! This is ripe for abuse.
4. If bonuses are given for taking planets in the future, award them to all participating players who helped take or defend a planet. Unit tags do not work, as in 99% of cases, multiple units help in taking or keeping planets.

-k

[Sandpit]

vandalhooch, on 09 December 2015 - 02:19 AM, said:

Let members of each faction vote on what their faction's wars and alliances will be. The higher a pilot's loyalty rank in their faction the more votes they get. Loyalists get a larger voice in the direction of the war with mercenaries getting a smaller say. Loyalist mercenaries however could end up with a larger voice.

Each IS faction gets three options for two weeks or a month or whatever time frame works. Each Clan faction gets only two options.

Example, Kurita pilots vote to attack SJ and Davion, while allying with FRR. For the next few weeks, those are the only options available for all Kurita pilots. Kurita can launch attacks on only two planets and can only defend their own planets or planets of their allies. Kurita pilots can not drop in defense of a Steiner world against Jade Falcon.

You could add diplomatic complexity by requiring that in order for an alliance to be established, both factions must vote for the alliance. If one faction fails to make the alliance one of their top choices then their potential partner loses that option for that cycle. Factions could vote to attack a neighbor that they previously had on neutral, betrayal! The defenders would be unable to counter attack until the next voting cycle and it would cost them dropping one of their previous options. There is now a place for self-appointed diplomats to work on establishing lines of communication between factions as well as convincing the greater majority of pilots within their faction to uphold their diplomatic agreements.

The number of planets contested during each attack phase would be greatly reduced. Defending groups made up of PUGs would be more likely to be in the same faction encouraging cooperation as pilots get to see the same teammates over and over. No more skittles!

The rate of the clan invasion would be slowed as a single large clan faction could take at most two planets per phase and that would come at the cost of not having any allies to defend their own planets from counter attacks. If a clan decides to attack two others then they must also defend their own worlds by themselves. Wolf could focus on FRR or Steiner but likely not both. Falcons would likely attack Steiner and then could advocate for an alliance with only one other clan faction.

A further complexity would be the option for an IS faction and Clan to vote for alliance. Think Nova Cat and Kurita from lore. Imagine a Davion attacker facing a mixed PUG defense team made up of both Kurita and Falcon pilots at the same time.

All of this would be predicated on PGI implementing some sort of system that rewards units/factions for successful captures or defenses of planets however.

Well again, baby steps. I think I suggested in one of these posts that PGI could look into actually putting together a player council of sorts to help have input on the CW map. Or they could simply give a list of options in each faction sub-section and let those who care to, vote on it. Stuff like that. I agree completely that for CW, PGI REALLY needs to involve player input a bit more. If they do that they'll see interest in CW increase drastically.

[Karamarka]

Sandpit, on 07 December 2015 - 01:37 PM, said:

People in the factions care about fighting a war and feeling like they're involved in that war. Just about every single player I talked to this weekend agreed that the queues, wait times, matches, etc. were all MUCH better than usual across the board with a "controlled" event. There is absolutely NOTHING in the system above that makes CW less meaningful. Nothing. There is nothing BUT adding more meaningful stuff with CW in that suggestion. You're either being obtuse, just wanting to argue, or simply on a "PGI can't control me kick" if you're going to completely ignore the examples I gave and explained (in detail I might add) on how they add depth, story, meaningful conflicts, and retell the story of the Inner Sphere invasion. YOU don't like it? Hey that's great but let's keep the "most players" "fake majority representation" etc. out of it "CW players want" What you mean to say is YOU want. There's a difference As I said earlier, if the only nitpick you can find with the suggestion is PGI "controlling things" I think this would be a good system to explore.

you are naive if you think that Tuk was the only draw to CW that weekend.

How about the MC, cockpit items, C-bills, premium time and other rewards?

CW needs incentive to get more players, not consolidate the little players it has.

[PFC Carsten]

Sandpit,

As mentioned in the other thread, I like some of your ideas. Especially that you conjured them up in a way that allows PGI to implement it without too much coding involved which I fear is their single biggest shortcoming.



Some suggestions:

For new Players (my dearest pet):
To allow people to accomodate with FaP and see what works and what not, there could be a kind of live training grounds. Unrealistically, people from all Clan and all IS factions would meet there and can live-test their strategies, their build or their map awareness. (Somewhat reduced) C-Bill and Mech-XP awards should be earned, Loyalty points and progress within each players factions not. Of course those matches would not have any influence on planet ownership whatsoever


For queue speedup while at the same time allowing player freedom:
All lanes of attack and planets should be open, but as the leadership of IS and Clan factions have preferred targets (the planets PGI decides upon), only THOSE should be rewarded with loyalty points and progress in your chosen faction's ranks, C-Bills and XP could be earned anywhere on the map when people get a match. This would be motivation enough I think to concentrate the attack lanes.

Clans and IS should both have a planet to attack AND defend, so no side is inherently preferred.


For less abuse and less dependancy on last-minute window of attack:
Make the slots go away on any planet, because "ownership" really is decided on who can mass enough force in the last window of attack. So away with that as well. Just tally wins/losses over the course of the season.


No more Ghost Drops. Apart from a stomp (which can happen anytime as well), nothing is more frustrating than idling for 30 minutes in a queue only to have to run all over the map to shoot some uninspired beacons. If really no match happens, Insta-win. Shorten the wait maybe to 10 minutes, because queues tend to be fuller.

[Sandpit]

Karamarka, on 10 December 2015 - 11:55 PM, said:

you are naive if you think that Tuk was the only draw to CW that weekend.

How about the MC, cockpit items, C-bills, premium time and other rewards?

CW needs incentive to get more players, not consolidate the little players it has.

yes because I implied or stated anywhere in the suggestion and idea that it was the main and only reason. Stay on topic please If you don't like that idea, that's cool, everyone is entitled to their opinion but your post has absolutely nothing to do with any of the ideas being suggested

PFC Carsten, on 11 December 2015 - 01:00 AM, said:

Sandpit,

As mentioned in the other thread, I like some of your ideas. Especially that you conjured them up in a way that allows PGI to implement it without too much coding involved which I fear is their single biggest shortcoming.



Some suggestions:

For new Players (my dearest pet):
To allow people to accomodate with FaP and see what works and what not, there could be a kind of live training grounds. Unrealistically, people from all Clan and all IS factions would meet there and can live-test their strategies, their build or their map awareness. (Somewhat reduced) C-Bill and Mech-XP awards should be earned, Loyalty points and progress within each players factions not. Of course those matches would not have any influence on planet ownership whatsoever


For queue speedup while at the same time allowing player freedom:
All lanes of attack and planets should be open, but as the leadership of IS and Clan factions have preferred targets (the planets PGI decides upon), only THOSE should be rewarded with loyalty points and progress in your chosen faction's ranks, C-Bills and XP could be earned anywhere on the map when people get a match. This would be motivation enough I think to concentrate the attack lanes.

Clans and IS should both have a planet to attack AND defend, so no side is inherently preferred.


For less abuse and less dependancy on last-minute window of attack:
Make the slots go away on any planet, because "ownership" really is decided on who can mass enough force in the last window of attack. So away with that as well. Just tally wins/losses over the course of the season.


No more Ghost Drops. Apart from a stomp (which can happen anytime as well), nothing is more frustrating than idling for 30 minutes in a queue only to have to run all over the map to shoot some uninspired beacons. If really no match happens, Insta-win. Shorten the wait maybe to 10 minutes, because queues tend to be fuller.

For new players I think attaching a "simulator" mode to the academy and tying it into the training grounds would be the simplest thing to do. Let those new players still under the cadet bonus access the simulator mode and give approved veterans access to it as well.

It has a full and complete mech lab and players can take whatever mechs they want with free customization. This gives the ability to try out all those mechs, builds, and weight classes in live games without spending their first bundle of cbills on a mech that isn't going to fit their style.
There are no rewards earned for this obviously. There are no "queues" either. You drop into the next available server that comes open and it stays open until 24 players are in. There's respawn (dropship) in the same exact mech you launched with. It's a perfect learning environment for new players and it allows some vets to drop in with them and offer tips and advice. That's how you increase retention and build a community

I'd just go with the closed and open lanes only. The sandbox of the map is what causes a lot of issues with wait times. New players, inexperienced players in CW, have next to zero idea how to figure out which planets to attack or defend, it's confusing and a huge turn off for players in many cases.

Ghost drops I would switch to just a steady "leech" mechanic like MPBT 3025 did. Nobody wants to defend that planet because it's not "lucrative" enough, well that's fine, but you're eventually going to lose that planet and much faster than the current ghost drops. Not fast enough to require immediate reaction or to allow for widespread exploitation, but fast enough that attack lanes and defend lanes can be changed and alter entire faction strategies.

[MischiefSC]

Active faction members with a permacon should vote on what planets to attack. Not just that but you should get to decide what pugzapper messages you send out - for example, you really, dear effing god REALLY shouldn't send pugzapper messages out to defend a world. If you're desperate, sure but otherwise it's one of the reasons that aggressive factions always win - you are mostly grinding pugs.

Having PGI just decide would prevent me from bothering with CW.

Otherwise there's some good concepts here. However the best option for CW is to give a lot of control over faction direction to permacon faction units and their *active* players.