37 replies to this topic

[XX Sulla XX]

So how are you guys liking the new Victors?

[BigBenn]

The Victor will remain an afterthough until it gets a remodel. It is far too big, namely it has shoulders of an Atlas.

[Ultimax]

The quirks are too weak to overcome the flaws this mech has in the current game.

Chiefly, an inability to boat anything efficiently, a reliance on big heavy weapons that aren't competitive enough and without enough quirks to make them so, enormous model with bad hitboxes that needs XL for any halfway decent build, bad mount locations, crappy jump jets.


It has no useful qualities to make me the slightest bit interested to play it.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 08 December 2015 - 09:47 PM.

[Revis Volek]

Would either need some BJ level Structure to the ST's or a Remodel as well as Pre nerf Dragon ballistics quirks to be relevant ever again.

Also some decent jump jets not of the hover variety.

[Alistair Winter]

The Victor has been left behind due to hardpoint inflation. Both the big 75 tonners and the popular assault mechs have better hardpoints. Same as the Highlander. It was a good mech when big weapons dominated the meta. E.g. PPCs and gauss / AC10. And it was a good mech before PGI turned jump jets into hoverboards. But those days are gone.

The whole point of the Victor is having a ballistic arm, basically. To bring big ballistics or multiple ballistics (2 UAC5s) on an assault mech, you need to bring either lots of medium lasers or lots of SRMs as backup. The Victor can bring neither. You can bring 2xSRM6 and 2xMPL, but that' simply not a good build in the current meta.

Right now, my best Victor build is 2xUAC5 + 2xLL. It's ok, but I'm still running around in an oversized 80-tonner, dwarfing the tiny 75-ton Marauders while having crappy jump jets and inferior firepower.

It's a pretty looking thing though.

Oh, quirks? 5% here, 10% there, same as every other IS mech. The VTR-9S has a 25% range bonus for ballistics, which is nice. 750 meter optimal range for UAC5, whoop whoop.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 08 December 2015 - 10:41 PM.

[Elizander]

Alistair Winter, on 08 December 2015 - 10:28 PM, said:

Right now, my best Victor build is 2xUAC5 + 2xLL. It's ok, but I'm still running around in an oversized 80-tonner, dwarfing the tiny 75-ton Marauders while having crappy jump jets and inferior firepower.

A bit sad when an HBK 4P can laservomit for 57 or my Ilya Muromets can actually bring 2 Gauss Rifles and 2 Large Lasers. :3

[Jun Watarase]

What new victor quirks? The largely meaningless missile ones? The weird fact that the VTR-9B has no quirks to boost it's stock loadout of 2 MLs?

[627]

Would be a start to up the missile tubes to at least 6 per hardpoint. Even the X-5 got 20 tubes from a 2-tube launcher, why not the vic?

[Lightfoot]

The Victor was made for a Battle Tech game with working Gauss Rifles (with no charge-up) and 1500 mps PPCs. Now it's one of the many Battle Tech mechs that can't laser-brawl and so it must wait for PGI to grasp why laser-vomit is not Battle Tech. Don't hold yer breath or anything.

[pwnface]

Give the Victor jump jet and PPC quirks and return it to it's previous poptarting glory. Honestly it wouldn't be OP in the slightest considering the amount of power creep that's happened since then.

[Revis Volek]

pwnface, on 09 December 2015 - 12:31 AM, said:

Give the Victor jump jet and PPC quirks and return it to it's previous poptarting glory. Honestly it wouldn't be OP in the slightest considering the amount of power creep that's happened since then.

If the Victor and the Highlander were the only two decent poptart Assaults in the game would it break it in any way?

My answer is no, not at all. It would actually help the inner sphere combat some of that Clan range actually.

[kapusta11]

What can help Victor:
- Smaller model size
- If not then ST and Arm armor/structure quirks
- AC20 and SRM projectile speed sync
- Tighter SRM spread
- Better SRM hitreg
- 6 effin missile tube lauchers
- More enegry hardpoints
- Jump jets

Does it have any of these right now? No, it still sucks.

Edited by kapusta11, 09 December 2015 - 01:17 AM.

[pwnface]

DarthRevis, on 09 December 2015 - 12:37 AM, said:

If the Victor and the Highlander were the only two decent poptart Assaults in the game would it break it in any way?

My answer is no, not at all. It would actually help the inner sphere combat some of that Clan range actually.

Bring back poptarting as an answer for laser vomit!

Honestly, when both styles were viable it was probably the most balanced this game has ever been. Laser vomit has bigger alphas but longer exposure time, poptarting has weaker alphas but front loaded damage. Buff SRMs to 2.5 damage and brawling could be thrown in the mix too. LRMs though.. not even gonna touch that, way too hard to balance.

[chewie]

Quote

Chiefly, an inability to boat anything

That right there.

Sums up 90% of what's wrong with people's mindset in this game.

Battle Tech mechs very rarely are boat load orientated.

So if it can't boat, or be uber, or is perceived as doa, it won't get used.

Play it for what it is.

Don't try and make it what it isn't.

[pwnface]

chewie, on 09 December 2015 - 12:41 AM, said:

That right there.

Sums up 90% of what's wrong with people's mindset in this game.

Battle Tech mechs very rarely are boat load orientated.

So if it can't boat, or be uber, or is perceived as doa, it won't get used.

Play it for what it is.

Don't try and make it what it isn't.

People want to win in a PVP game though. If boating is the best way to do that, people are going to boat. If everyone is boating but you, guess who is going to lose?

[Revis Volek]

pwnface, on 09 December 2015 - 12:40 AM, said:

Bring back poptarting as an answer for laser vomit!

Honestly, when both styles were viable it was probably the most balanced this game has ever been. Laser vomit has bigger alphas but longer exposure time, poptarting has weaker alphas but front loaded damage. Buff SRMs to 2.5 damage and brawling could be thrown in the mix too. LRMs though.. not even gonna touch that, way too hard to balance.

and start throwing out sturcture quirks to any that cant poptart or laser vomit so they can brawl it up and survive the beating while they close range.

Pwn we need to just kickstarter this idea and buy MWO off PGI...
But seriously, i dont understand why that would even be an issue, im sure some issues may arise that we cant see now but it cant be any worse then what we have now i dont think.

chewie, on 09 December 2015 - 12:41 AM, said:

That right there.

Sums up 90% of what's wrong with people's mindset in this game.

Battle Tech mechs very rarely are boat load orientated.

So if it can't boat, or be uber, or is perceived as doa, it won't get used.

Play it for what it is.

Don't try and make it what it isn't.

If other weapons worked, like MG's, Flamers, SRM's, LRM's, or LBX's im sure we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.

When all other options are N/A you go with what works.

Edited by DarthRevis, 09 December 2015 - 12:57 AM.

[TELEFORCE]

You definitely don't have to boat weapons to win in this game. It might make it easier in some cases, and in other cases it's intended (Nova Prime, for example). But mixed loadouts do work.

[kapusta11]

DarthRevis, on 09 December 2015 - 12:56 AM, said:

If other weapons worked, like MG's, Flamers, SRM's, LRM's, or LBX's im sure we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.

When all other options are N/A you go with what works.

Oh they do work, I tell you, you just need to abandon you "crutches".

[pwnface]

kapusta11, on 09 December 2015 - 01:07 AM, said:

Oh they do work, I tell you, you just need to abandon you "crutches".

They work, just not as well as the other weapons that work much better.

[Alistair Winter]

pwnface, on 09 December 2015 - 12:31 AM, said:

Give the Victor jump jet and PPC quirks and return it to it's previous poptarting glory. Honestly it wouldn't be OP in the slightest considering the amount of power creep that's happened since then.

It's such a boring playstyle though.

The ideal playstyle for the Victor, in my opinion, should be a super mobile assault mech. XL350 engine or bigger, lots of jump jets. They need to fix the model to make the Victor a smaller target. And then just play it as a super mobile assault mech, dropping AC20, gauss or dual UAC5s in people's faces while running at 80+ kph and jumping over buildings.

And yeah, give it more missile tubes. If the Victor 9S could run AC20 + 3xSRM6 (or 3xSRM4), it would be such an awesome hit-and-run assault mech. Put an XL375 in it and just run around kablaming people.