73 replies to this topic

[Wrel]

CapperDeluxe, on 11 July 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

but they also have zero tolerance for if your aim goes off target and lose your lock progress.

Exactly the issue I was having. Sure, I could spin the stick around and start to aquire a lock, but two targets moving at two speeds in two different directions required me to really work the fine-tuning of my aim to get a full lock going, and it was a nightmare. It would move off center for a fraction of a second and I lost all progress and I had to try and re-aquire it. I found I was focusing so much on that that I had tunnel vision and lost my situation awareness simply due to the difficulty of an LRM lock.

[buckaroo]

I did the same thing you did. I found that aiming (tracking a moving target, that is) with a joystick requires a very steady hand and a light touch.

I'm practicing, and getting (slowly) better, but the mouse is a lot easier and tempting as all get-out. Just the principle of the thing, imo. I'm trying to be as sim-ey as possible.

Piloting the mech is easier with the HOTAS setup, imho. (Don't have to look at the keyboard ever.) I'm half-tempted to go with a joystick/gamepad rather than a throttle, though - the Nostromo has a throttle on it, and a lot more buttons.

Going through the books and so on, it seems like more shots miss than hit in canon and fluff, even with supposedly "elite" pilots. Kinda hoping for some kind of forced inaccuracy model like WoT has (to enforce hit rolls) rather than the whole pinpoint, every-shot-lands-center-torso targeting of the mouse/kb users in MW4.

Edited by buckaroo, 11 July 2012 - 10:17 AM.

[NVranya]

I bought the Thrustmaster T.Flight Hotas X the other day and am (re)learning movement/aim as well now with MW4.
I don't experience the jumpiness you have with this stick, I just suck at aiming (although after a few hours I seem to improve).

Furthermore, you can adjust the tightness of the stick movement if you think it takes too much force, or on the other hand, is too loose.
Perhaps try to get a feel of this (or other sticks) in a store?

And mouse might be better/easier, but I agree that a stick is more fun

Edit:
P.S. this is a very low budget stick, not a $600 one, but great value for money

Edited by NVranya, 11 July 2012 - 10:17 AM.

[Bansheedragon75]

OP I dont know if this is relevant to your question, but did you take a look in the Hardware, Accessories, Peripherals section of the forums?

There is a sticky thread there that has a wealth of information about different joysticks.

http://mwomercs.com/...nd-comparisons/

I found it to be very useful in deciding to use a joystick and which one to use.
It could be that you find some useful information there.

[Mintiper]

hm, i cant say anything to the newer models, but on MW3 or MW4 my old MS Sidewinder Pro Joystick with forcefedback, and (uh the englisch word is missing...) i thing is string control )or so xD) has worked, a realy small deadspot on it and you kan be fast or slow on aiming... the problem is no game will support it anymore, and i dont have the old gameport connection to use it again a good mouse.. but i have to say, the moste joysticks are now much worser the the old expansive ones, so i think is better to work with mouse on this game :/ (and sorry for my englisj x_X)

[Kalenn]

I use an approximately 10-year old Microsoft Sidewinder Pro (with twist) and I find I have more than enough control / fine accuracy to manage on "hard" in MW4... realize that's not the same as fighting against a person... but seems to work OK for me. Even though my stick is old it doesn't appear to have any centering "chunk"... spring action appears to be relatively smooth.

Mintiper, on 11 July 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

hm, i cant say anything to the newer models, but on MW3 or MW4 my old MS Sidewinder Pro Joystick with forcefedback, and (uh the englisch word is missing...) i thing is string control )or so xD) has worked, a realy small deadspot on it and you kan be fast or slow on aiming... the problem is no game will support it anymore, and i dont have the old gameport connection to use it again a good mouse.. but i have to say, the moste joysticks are now much worser the the old expansive ones, so i think is better to work with mouse on this game :/ (and sorry for my englisj x_X)

You beat me to it. If you can find the old software you can actually map the face buttons to mouse / kboard inputs and use it for whatever you want! And, it's still got a default driver in windows so if you can find the serial -> USB converter (or buy one) then it works like a boss.

[Wrel]

@ Dragonlord

Yeah, I happened to stumble around to that page on the suggestion of someone else. Lots of good information there. As you can see on some of the cheaper joysticks, one of the cons listed is the "spring and plate" centering. From that, I gathered that it's a common fact that that's probably a cheaper but less effective method of re-centering a joystick. Some of the more expensive ($200+) sticks have motors that measure the X and Y dimensions individually and do away with the spring and plate which seems to be the root of my problems.

[Glythe]

Wrel, on 11 July 2012 - 09:04 AM, said:

Moving was well and good, but trying to keep my sites dead center on the enemy while circle strafing and trying to battle the stiff spring in the 'dead zone' was almost impossible. Sure, I could rip off some laser pulses or PPC barrages as I swung the crosshair over the enemy, but the big problem was LRMs. Trying to keep the aim centered on a far off target for a few seconds to aquire a lock, while we were both moving in different directions was just an awful experience.

I ask this mostly because I planned to play a Catapult or other fire support mech, as my friend is planning on playing a scout, and we want to work as a pair. From what anyone has seen/experienced, how is the lock-aiming with joysticks in MWO? Is it feasible? Is there maybe a floating-auto target that will snap a lock on as long as the target is selected and within a small cone around the aiming reticule?

To me, it seems that if there isn't something like this, or some new joystick technology to allow for smoother aiming, opposed to the spring deadzone, that it would be infinitely better to play a LRM style Heavy mech with mouse aiming, where you can be as precise as you need to be, but totally ruin the old-school joystick experience. I'm hoping that isn't that case.

There is no auto aim in this game as far as we know... and I really hope there never will be.

I realize it is something of a 4 letter word but you never played MechAssault did you? I mention it as the Xbox controller (which is now the 360 controller) was just fine for the game. There was a slight aim assist in that game but it isn't as pronounced as many other console shooters. That being said my favorite weapon required manual aiming. If you play something big and slow a joystick like the 360 controller should be just fine for MWO. If you are very good I think it should work just fine for lights as well.

Wraeththix Constantine, on 11 July 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

If the arms track as fast as a mouse, then the mouse will always be superior, and joystick usage will be low. if the arms have to "catch up" with the mouse (or, track at joystick speeds) then the joystick will be fine.

Mech arms track the target quickly (not sure if it is instant but seems very quick) but torso weapons are very slow to adjust to a target.

Edited by Glythe, 11 July 2012 - 10:56 AM.

[Wrel]

Glythe, on 11 July 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

There is no auto aim in this game as far as we know... and I really hope there never will be.

Don't get me wrong, I hope that as well. What I was getting at was mostly trying to acquire a LRM lock. As someone had said earlier, it was nightmarish to try and do with my joystick, due to the non-fluid movement of the stick.

I guess I would re-word what I said earlier to say "will there be some sort of tolerated deviation from 'dead nuts aiming right at the target' while attempting to acquire a lock" rather than saying auto aim. With a mouse, one could stay on target for the entire lock duration, however with a joystick, which won't allow such precise movements, if there was something that perhaps evened the devices out. I just didn't want to have to be forced into having to use a mouse if I want to play a successful LRM Heavy type.

[DarthMolen]

Imma have to pull out my M$ sidewinder pro force feeback from umpteen jillion years ago and get the USB adapter. That'll be cheaper than buying a new one.

And def. look up Tom's thread. Best post on here IMHO.

[Yankee77]

It's just a matter of learning what all pilots learn: the light touch. Stick movement can be very fluid, it just takes practice.

With rudder pedals it gets even more fun.

Itkovian

[Odins Fist]

If they have "AIM ASSIST" for sticks, you might as well being playing a console game...

[Wrel]

Odins Fist, on 11 July 2012 - 11:21 AM, said:

If they have "AIM ASSIST" for sticks, you might as well being playing a console game...

I've already clarified that this was not what I was asking for or about.

[Wyr]

Odins Fist, on 11 July 2012 - 11:21 AM, said:

If they have "AIM ASSIST" for sticks, you might as well being playing a console game...

I don't think you can compare MWO with ArmoredCoreV or similar console game, aim assist or not.

[Yankee77]

Aim assist is what Streak SRMs are for.

[JessterC]

I enjoy the "sim" aspect of the game... If you feel that you don't want to learn stick, or you do better with a mouse and you prefer that little advantage to the "sim" feel... then use a mouse... anyone that loses sleep over the decision should step back and re-evaluate their priorities :-p

[torytrae74]

I really hope they get the joystick setup right. I would prefer to use a stick anytime.

[Wrel]

Well. It seems that the LRM lock / joystick problems that I was experiencing with MW4 won't be a problem after all.

Previously, in MW games, you targeted the enemy, centered your sites on them, and held it there while the lock built and then you were able to fire the guided missiles. Poking around media on this site, I watched this whole video:



It appears that in this footage of the Catapult, he pilot simply had to be in range and target the enemy. Once within the stated 650 meters, you weren't required to center your sites to build a lock. The pilot fired away and the missiles directed themselves right to the enemy. Unless something happened that I didn't see?

I guess that solves the problem of fighting lower-end joystick technology while trying to be precise. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Ghosth]

Ideally we'll have stick scaling so we can setup fine precise control in the center and max imput out at the edges.

The other thing that comes into play esp with the Saitek is lubrication on that center cone.

I've got 15 years experience in online flight sims, a lot depends on how you setup your stick.

[Squiggy McPew]

Hrmmm, I have a 360 controller plugged into my computer for games like skyrim and gta so would that be supported in this game?

Seems all the buttons and twin sticks would be a natural for this game.