23 replies to this topic

[Morggo]

Okay, I'll accept you guys all laughing but I wanted to get thoughts on just how ridiculous this may or may not be.

Not sure why (okay, possibly the beers) but for funzies I dropped 3xAC2 on my MAD with some MPL for close in work. Put them on chainfire and let'em rip. I had great matches with those teeny little guns.

So a question - does the AC2 cause the same screenshake as their beefier cousins? Because one thing I did find as I poured round after round into people they jump back into cover real quick. And brawling was interesting as they often were missing me at pretty short range and would back down.

Another use I found was I could lay suppressing fire (in more organized PUGs) meaning I was able to pin 2 or 3 mechs trying to play peek over a ridge, saddle, or buildings (honestly it's fun, like a game of whack-a-mole) and others would use the time to close the gap on them then I would head in for the brawl or flank once they engaged. Dumb?

Anyhow, just wanted to get some thoughts on the apparently unloved little AC2, I've been having a lot of fun with the triple config sometimes.

[Cactus In The Rear]

The AC2 causes less screen shake per shot but due to the fire rate more shake overall.

Most people don't prefer the AC2 because they have awful damage/dps for their weight. Screen shake is really the only useful aspect.

[Tesunie]

Xanilos, on 07 December 2015 - 08:19 PM, said:

The AC2 causes less screen shake per shot but due to the fire rate more shake overall.

Most people don't prefer the AC2 because they have awful damage/dps for their weight. Screen shake is really the only useful aspect.

AC2s actually (last I recalled) have great DPS. Some of the best DPS in the game. However, the game has shifted to high alpha damages, which mean a mech in todays meta tends to be designed to poke out for a moment, alpha, then back into cover while twisting damage around. With an AC2, you have to face-stare into your opponent to deal your damage, it tends to spread more as it's little bursts of damage over a longer time, and you can't twist damage around if you want to keep your guns on target. When you face a mech that pokes, deals 40 damage, then retreats, with an AC2 based mech you tend to get an alpha back and deal maybe 15-20 damage at your attacker.



AC2s still deal a lot of shake, only because it's so constant. It also does a bit of a flash as they hit, which can blind your target if you are lucky. Many people back out of combat and into cover when they get hit, even if it's only a single AC2. So, even if your AC2s aren't dealing much damage, you are suppressing people back into cover due to them not wanting to take any damage. However, just make sure that you are dealing more damage per exchange, as those high alpha builds often times don't mind poking in and out of cover... and can out damage you over a shorter time.

[Lukoi Banacek]

According to smurf, it's 2.78 for AC2 and 3.01 for AC5 in terms of sustained DPS.

With a mauler running 4 x AC2's, your sustained is around 5.3 vice 3 x AC5 (same tonnage committed, but more slots) at over 9. Additionally, time to oveheat is significantly faster with the 2's in this example.

AC2 do not excel in any category currently besides crit slots imo and really only shine when boated, and even then, only if you are struggling with crit slots or just prefer the maximum rate of fire.

I want to love them, but I simply cannot at this point. They are an option for fun's sake, just not the most optimal option.

[Morggo]

Cool, thanks all for the clarifications and info.
Considering that chassis is Elited already using them, I may play with 'em a bit more just for fun.
Moderate damage at range or no, it's still fun making Dires and Madcats huddle back for cover

[Void Angel]

The point of the AC/2 isn't its sustained DPS or (obviously) punch damage - it's highly accurate damage at extreme long range. Only the ERPPC and the lighter Clan autocannons outrange it, and it is tied with Gauss Rifles for fastest projectile speedd. This means that while you're not doing the dps of larger-bore weapons, you're getting much more accuracy and range in trade.

Note that this has not made the weapon system a great choice in recent patches - there's a reason that they buffed it as a crit-seeking weapon last patch - but any evaluation of the weapon system should account for that weapon's intended role.

Edited by Void Angel, 07 December 2015 - 10:35 PM.

[Eaerie]

If you want to have fun with AC2's i recommend the Blackjack 1(c). it has quirks for the AC2 and can be quite entertaining. just have to make sure you are using it as a hit and run mech or as a flanker. if something turns your way run and hide, reposition and start again.

[Ey3cD34Dppl]

Currently use it on a Jagermech S. 4x AC2 in manual dakka mode. In CW I deal the most damage with that mech as long as you can use it as fire support for the frontline. From my perspective this weapon is good for that reason, but in a frontline mech this weapon is just terrible in comparison to other ACs.

[xengk]

AC2 are particularly annoying on map with wide open space, like desert and frozen city.
They might not hurt much but the constant plinking is very testing on a pilot's resolve.
I run them on my BJ as suppression/distraction weapon, by chaining firing on an engaged target or plinking peek-shooters.

The small hill at C5 on frozen city attracts AC2, Gauss rifle and ERPPC since it offer a good line of sight into the fighting around "tower". You will have to push pass the brawlers or flank around from "titanic" to get them.

[jss78]

Ey3cD34Dppl, on 08 December 2015 - 12:21 AM, said:

Currently use it on a Jagermech S. 4x AC2 in manual dakka mode. In CW I deal the most damage with that mech as long as you can use it as fire support for the frontline. From my perspective this weapon is good for that reason, but in a frontline mech this weapon is just terrible in comparison to other ACs.

I also ran a Quad-AC2 JM6-S in my CW drop deck for Tukayyid. It agree it seems to do quite well in that setting (long-range engagements, you're more often surrounded by an organized firing line, so you can play to your strengths as a fire-support platform). I like to put 4xML on it for secondary armament -- it's way too hot to fire those all the time with the AC's, but they can give you that rapid burst of damage when needed. Kinda covers that biggest weakness of AC2's.

[Tarogato]

AC2's are a double edged sword. Against most opponents, they can be very good because the enemy isn't smart to realise they're not being hit with dual cUAC-10s, so they instinctively back into cover and don't want to trade with you. But smart opponents will realise you're only firing AC2s and they'll just charge you down and shoot you back dealing more damage than you can.

[Morggo]

Austin Danger Powers, on 08 December 2015 - 04:19 PM, said:

Well that Dire or Madcat will duck back in cover even if it's hit by a laser. If my weapons are done firing and cooling off, why shouldn't I go back to cover if I see any weapon shooting at me?

Oh I agree. In my example I'm keeping them suppressed before they get their shots off was my point.


@others, thanks again for more insight into the AC2s. While running 3xAC2 and 4xMPL won't be a long term loadout, I'll keep it in my rotation as a fun one even though it's not quite 4x.

[Tesunie]

Morggo, on 08 December 2015 - 09:20 PM, said:

@others, thanks again for more insight into the AC2s. While running 3xAC2 and 4xMPL won't be a long term loadout, I'll keep it in my rotation as a fun one even though it's not quite 4x.

A mech/build that may interest you if you like the AC2s...
King Crab
Banshee
Jaugermech (dual AC2s and dual AC5s)
or what has become known amongst my friends as "Half Kings":
Shadowhawk (LRMs optional)
Centurion AH (I have mine set up similar to the Shadowhawk, except with SRMs instead.)


A similar playing mech to the massed AC2, but with a bit of a jam chance:
Enforcer 5P


Just if they interest you. It's a good way to still use the AC2s, while still having some extra oomph when you may need it. These work like a charm (when hit reg wants to count the spammed shots that is...).

[Void Angel]

Austin Danger Powers, on 08 December 2015 - 04:19 PM, said:

Well that Dire or Madcat will duck back in cover even if it's hit by a laser. If my weapons are done firing and cooling off, why shouldn't I go back to cover if I see any weapon shooting at me?

"How do you engage the reverse gear on an Assault 'mech?"

"Shoot it with a Medium Laser."

[pwnface]

Last night I was in a 6 man group running SHD-2Hs with 3xAC2 each just goofing around. It's actually moderately effective if you can stay together and focus targets. People turn and run once they are being pelted by that kind of sheer volume of dakka. It's a terrible weapon choice for close or even mid range, but at 600m or more it's pretty fun and can definitely make people back down.

People on the other team were like WTF that hurts! In reality one SHD-2H can dish out roughly 9dps but having 3 people focus fire with them feel likes you are getting hit by a dakka dire.

Edited by pwnface, 08 December 2015 - 09:52 PM.

[Inveramsay]

remember, sometimes the threat of violence (i.e. AC2s) is as effective as actual violence. People will back down very quick when getting hit by AC shells regardless of size

[Tesunie]

Inveramsay, on 08 December 2015 - 10:52 PM, said:

remember, sometimes the threat of violence (i.e. AC2s) is as effective as actual violence. People will back down very quick when getting hit by AC shells regardless of size

It's like an "Incoming Missile" warning. Even if the missiles don't hit, they still forced people to move by their very threat of damage...

[pwnface]

Tesunie, on 08 December 2015 - 11:03 PM, said:

It's like an "Incoming Missile" warning. Even if the missiles don't hit, they still forced people to move by their very threat of damage...

Yep, except it is way more urgent because they are actually already taking damage and can hear the *tink tink tink* of AC rounds pinging them. Definitely a big psychological effect.

[Tesunie]

pwnface, on 08 December 2015 - 11:05 PM, said:

Yep, except it is way more urgent because they are actually already taking damage and can hear the *tink tink tink* of AC rounds pinging them. Definitely a big psychological effect.

True.

Depending upon what your intent is though, for 4 tons (I believe?), an LRM5 may not cause the damage but it can easily perform the same reaction/role (situation depending of course) for less tonnage. Just an alternative concept.

LRMs are a hit or miss weapon all too often. Especially with ECM lurking around as much as it does. It still has it's uses, and can still be effective (read effective not as "best in game") as a damage dealing weapon or as a secondary support weapon.

Got to love weapons with utility.

[SnagaDance]

pwnface, on 08 December 2015 - 11:05 PM, said:

Yep, except it is way more urgent because they are actually already taking damage and can hear the *tink tink tink* of AC rounds pinging them. Definitely a big psychological effect.

Quite so. I run a 6 AC/2 King Crab for funsies and it can really shine when it's in its element. Meaning longer range engagements or being ignored.

As the AC/2 has been considered a sub-par weapon for quite a while now (top of my head 1,5 or 2 years since it was nerfed, this was before Clans?) and this means there are people that ignore that distinctive 'plink-plink-plink' rhythm thinking "Oh, it's only a noob with an AC/2". But the sound I'm hearing is "12-24-36-48..." as group fired salvo after group fired salvo hits its target and racks up those damage numbers.

I've had several people go "WTF? What killed me all of a sudden?" on all-chat. The group fire is essential for this as there's no telling by how many AC/2's you're being hit (much like the Incoming Missiles warning doesn't say anything about the size of the salvo), though the chain fire can be far more intimidating for people. But I don't want them intimidated, I want their mechs hurt/dead.