56 replies to this topic

[Narcissistic Martyr]

PGI has said they won't allow them to shut down mechs. So, they need to be a decent damage alternative to the IS ML and cERSL.

I would make them a PPFLD weapon kind of like a very short ranged cERPPC with the cERPPC splash damage. Let it do 3 damage to 3 adjacent sections for the IS flamer and 3 damage to 2 sections for the clan version.

I'd also let the flamer disable 1 heat sink for 1 second to hinder enemy cool down without allowing the mech to actually overheat from the flamer alone.

[Sigmar Sich]

As i remember, game needs some particles fixed, before flamers could be buffed.

I think better way to buff flamers is easiest way - less heat for shooter, and add quirks to flamer mechs, such as Firestarter, TDR-5SS/9S and others.

And while flamers became a bit more viable, devs can explore new ways fir improvement.

[LordNothing]

more heat on target.

to keep the trollness at a minimum i would have it behave like an ammo weapon. each flamer would come with a reservoir that would refill slowly over time. using the weapon drains the reservoir. if the rate of refil was divided by the number of flamers on the mech, if you boat flamers you get much longer recharge time, though damage and heat still stack up. by tweaking charge and discharge rates, you can balance the weapon.

Edited by LordNothing, 13 December 2015 - 06:25 AM.

[Wrathful Scythe]

A bit more heat on the target, a bit more range and no multiplying heat on oneself. That video with the Stalker that overheats itself with one flamer is hilarious but just shows how stupid it is.

[5LeafClover]

I'd go for a fixed number of charges per flamer (6 say), but make them more powerful. Then use them in a way somewhat similar to narc, as a brawl assist tool, rather than primarily doing damage.

The heat mechanism could be one or more of:
>Half the targets ability to sink heat for 30s
>Raise targets heat level to 90% (very rapidly without much heat to the user)
>Damage internal servos, mobility devices et. in un-armoured sections (less turn speed, arm motion speed etc)
>Increased chance to cook ammo

MG on the other hand just need to be more effective, even if more approximate in their behaviour to avoid drain on the server. E.g. keep the same animation but have only 3 true projectiles per second. I love the sound and feel of them, so it's a pity we can't make more use of them.

Alternatively, you could differentiate so they do double the damage to internal structure than they do to armour (Fluff being that the shells are too small to penetrate armour well)

[mania3c]

Their utility can't be buffed as long as people can boat them. Honestly only sensible buff would be ..just make them energy machine guns..that's it.

[LordNothing]

maybe another more simple thing is have them simply do double damage to internals. so essentially a crit seeker.

[Drunk Canuck]

Remove them

[PaeuxP22]

If they take power from the engine then make that the limiting factor. Firing a flamer takes away from the energy output your engine can produce is speed and turning ability. They have already introduced reduced engines in clan xl so they can do it from a coding point of view. Plus that way it's self regulating as in you can fire 8 flamers at once but the drain on your engine would be so great as to not be able to move until you stopped firing making boating them dangerous in the extreme

[jss78]

LordNothing, on 13 December 2015 - 06:33 AM, said:

maybe another more simple thing is have them simply do double damage to internals. so essentially a crit seeker.

This'd make sense to me. To me it'd be counter-intuitive if a machine gun or a flame thrower would be too effective against 31st century armour. Once there's no armour, sure why not.

Now the ideal, and least-contrived solution would be to add softer targets to the game. Namely, infantry. Isn't that what flamers/MG's were intended against in TT? While they have to be in MWO due to lore/legacy reasons, I'd rather not see a machine gun that can work through ten tons of armour.

[Strum Wealh]

PaeuxP22, on 13 December 2015 - 07:53 AM, said:

If they take power from the engine then make that the limiting factor. Firing a flamer takes away from the energy output your engine can produce is speed and turning ability. They have already introduced reduced engines in clan xl so they can do it from a coding point of view. Plus that way it's self regulating as in you can fire 8 flamers at once but the drain on your engine would be so great as to not be able to move until you stopped firing making boating them dangerous in the extreme

That aspect is arguably already accounted for in why the Flamers' heat-to-user is so high - the Fusion Engine (generally described in the lore as being essentially a tokamak or stellerator (or similar device) fed plasma from a fusor (or similar device)) has to "over-rev" (that is, the fusor component has to produce much more plasma than usual in order to both feed the tokamak/stellerator component (which produces the electricity needed to run the 'Mech) AND the additional plasma to be ejected through the Flamer(s)), and this "over-revving" is what would be represented by the heat spike.

Edited by Strum Wealh, 13 December 2015 - 09:34 AM.

[Mcgral18]

jss78, on 13 December 2015 - 09:19 AM, said:

Now the ideal, and least-contrived solution would be to add softer targets to the game. Namely, infantry. Isn't that what flamers/MG's were intended against in TT? While they have to be in MWO due to lore/legacy reasons, I'd rather not see a machine gun that can work through ten tons of armour.

It's not like a HALF TON "Machine Gun" is designed to take out armour or anything...

Look at that...a half ton MG.

[sycocys]

Highlight all references to Flamer,

Hit Delete.

Fixed.

[JC Daxion]

lots of interesting ideas guys.. I do hope they do something to them though.. For me, there is just something wrong with a firestarter with out a pair of flamers.. They also have always been a fav weapon of mine. Would love to see them useful for something, and not just another short range weapon..

For me, some sorta after effect, or crit effect is the way to do..


to the people that tanked about hit scan, I can easily see the mechanic for them to change, duration's, and recharge times

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Flamer:

5 damage, 5 heat, 4s cooldown, target receives 5 heat, 90/180m range.

Bam. Fixed.

[Funkin Disher]

1 DPS
1 HPS to both you and target (target maxes at 80% or so)
Maximum range of 2x optimal
Then we tweak from there

Edited by Funkin Disher, 13 December 2015 - 08:04 PM.

[Dakkss]

LordNothing, on 13 December 2015 - 06:18 AM, said:

more heat on target.

to keep the trollness at a minimum i would have it behave like an ammo weapon. each flamer would come with a reservoir that would refill slowly over time. using the weapon drains the reservoir. if the rate of refil was divided by the number of flamers on the mech, if you boat flamers you get much longer recharge time, though damage and heat still stack up. by tweaking charge and discharge rates, you can balance the weapon.

I like this a lot.

[FupDup]

jss78, on 13 December 2015 - 09:19 AM, said:

Now the ideal, and least-contrived solution would be to add softer targets to the game. Namely, infantry. Isn't that what flamers/MG's were intended against in TT? While they have to be in MWO due to lore/legacy reasons, I'd rather not see a machine gun that can work through ten tons of armour.

No.

[Lykaon]

JC Daxion, on 12 December 2015 - 09:51 PM, said:

I have been thinking about this, and besides just adding damage, which then just turns them into any ol weapons..

Making mechs hot, has always been lore, but in this game, i think it might be way to easy to abuse.. Though, perhaps, they only would add a certain amount of heat, or only allowed to use um for short times, with very long cool downs? I dunno..



But the one thought that i did have for um which might work... what about Crits on heat sinks, though armor.. So unlike most weapons which only crit after armor is lost right? Or is the just just tons lower? Heat sinks could do crits and break a heat sink, before armor is lost. The idea being, hold a flamer on a mech for a certain length of time, and if a heat sink is in that area, it would have a % chance to fail, and break.

So in a way, the flamer mech could be effecting the cooling abilities of another mech, but in effect could make it less efficient over time

balance would be how long duration, and how often crit.. ect.. the short range of flamers would at least keep them only to the shortest ranged brawlers.. and maybe give a reason to get the big guns into brawl range!


thoughts? And if not this.. what would you do?

My plan is the folowing.

Exstend Flamer range (to 150m ?)

Increase Flamer cooldown (to 4 seconds?)

Have the flamer fire a "fireball" projectile that causes a small amount of initial damage and sets the mech (or ground/objects) alight. The secondary fire lasts a number of seconds. Any mech set alight by a flamer has it's heat build for the duration of the fire effect.Sort of like a heat scale DoT effect.

Any mech coming into contact with a secondary fire will also be set alight.So walking through or into a fire effect exposes that mech to the Heat DoT.Secondary fires do not cause armor or structure damage only a breif heat DoT effect.

And now we have a unique weapon with several applications for enemy suppression.

[Tekran]

Fire, napalm, plasma, and burning mechs sounds really cool but seems like a lot to incorporate for one weapon system.

slightly increase heat effect on target (leave the max at 80-90% or whatever it is)
slightly decrease heat buildup for the shooter
leave the crit, damage, class, (no ammo) alone

boating? possible, but discouraged if the max effect is 80-90% heat...there's also that dirty word: ghost heat

Edited by Tekran, 15 December 2015 - 11:14 AM.