30 replies to this topic

[Oderint dum Metuant]

As title, im bored of either waiting 15 mins for people to understand how to open the gate, and im even more bored of teams that know they can't win so actively sit near their spawn for 30 mins just to tie teams up so they can't re-que to give other teams free wins.

[Joe Mallad]

Um NO!

And I say no not to be negative to you bud but I say no...

Because of how CW works right now.

Let's say you are teamed up with Mercs or guys on your team that MAY be friends with the guys in the enemy team. Or you have Mercs mixed in with your unit that are actually taking contracts from your faction just to start crap between your faction and another. If one of those guys happens to be the unit commander for that game and is given the ability to open and close the gates at will, what's stopping him from justvopenin the gates and HELPING his friends on the other side just walk right in?

If this was an ability, I promise you it would happen. You would have so many double agent type players helping the other team win by allowing this. So I say no.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Yoseful Mallad, on 28 December 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

Um NO!

And I say no not to be negative to you bud but I say no...

Because of how CW works right now.

Let's say you are teamed up with Mercs or guys on your team that MAY be friends with the guys in the enemy team. Or you have Mercs mixed in with your unit that are actually taking contracts from your faction just to start crap between your faction and another. If one of those guys happens to be the unit commander for that game and is given the ability to open and close the gates at will, what's stopping him from justvopenin the gates and HELPING his friends on the other side just walk right in?

If this was an ability, I promise you it would happen. You would have so many double agent type players helping the other team win by allowing this. So I say no.

Another facet of the game perhaps.

And yes your right ofc it would happen.

I suppose you could shorten the game time to say 5-10 mins, and then the time extends once gates are opened.

[Deathlike]

How would you determine who gets to open the gate? Seriously, think about this for a moment.

Second, would you do it regardless of map? If this was Boreal (ice map), I'd kinda understand. This doesn't seem like a smart idea on Sulpher (desert-ish map).

You need to think this through before wanting to do this.

[Alistair Winter]

Easy compromise: Fix the maps and make a ramp inside all gates, so defenders can easily move outside without opening the gates. Sure, it'd be nice to open and close the gates as needed, but I don't see any easy way to fix that.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Deathlike, on 28 December 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:

How would you determine who gets to open the gate? Seriously, think about this for a moment.

Second, would you do it regardless of map? If this was Boreal (ice map), I'd kinda understand. This doesn't seem like a smart idea on Sulpher (desert-ish map).

You need to think this through before wanting to do this.

Curious as you have those maps backwards, Boreal theres is little need to the gates are scale-able for JJ and non JJ mechs.
Sulpher on the other hand is not, and when the enemy is hiding at their spawn....

Perhaps time scaling would be better.

[W i L d F i R 3]

Maybe if there was the option to vote, and if the majority of the team voted to open the gates, then it would open.

Lets say you have a team with some fo these "Double Agents" as you like to call them, if you have more than 6, which would be required to get the gates to open, then you are more than likely not going to win anyways, i mean, 6 vs 18, the odds are staggering...

[Deathlike]

DV McKenna, on 28 December 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

Curious as you have those maps backwards, Boreal theres is little need to the gates are scale-able for JJ and non JJ mechs.
Sulpher on the other hand is not, and when the enemy is hiding at their spawn....

No. The rare moments I've seen players dominate on defense, it would actually be to the defenders benefit to open up the gates @ Boreal because they could just camp @ D4-E4 and whatever "survives" would never get through the turret grid and survive.

On Sulpher, the gates are somewhat irrelevant just as well, but you don't really have to watch certain gates as keenly when you see noone coming through it (most notably Beta gate).

Edited by Deathlike, 28 December 2014 - 12:18 PM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Deathlike, on 28 December 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

No. The rare moments I've seen players dominate on defense, it would actually be to the defenders benefit to open up the gates @ Boreal because they could just camp @ D4-E4 and whatever "survives" would never get through the turret grid and survive.

On Sulpher, the gates are somewhat irrelevant just as well, but you don't really have to watch certain gates as keenly when you see noone coming through it (most notably Beta gate).

I have never encountered the problem im talking about on Boreal.

Only on Sulpher where the attacking spawn is a network canyon away.
If the attacking team on that map decide not to move or assault the base...your in for a long wait.

Im not talking about dominant defenders either, more so the teams that flat out decide to not engage from the first second onwards

Edited by DV McKenna, 28 December 2014 - 12:20 PM.

[W i L d F i R 3]

Alistair Winter, on 28 December 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

Easy compromise: Fix the maps and make a ramp inside all gates, so defenders can easily move outside without opening the gates. Sure, it'd be nice to open and close the gates as needed, but I don't see any easy way to fix that.

This is the greatest idea since sliced bread, please, please, please, implement this.

[R Razor]

Bad idea, just gives the spawn campers more mech options (since they won't have to use JJ equipped mechs to hop the closed gates) to use when they decide to rush the attackers spawn at the beginning. They can wait as long as it takes since that's their preferred play style.

Edited by R Razor, 28 December 2014 - 12:22 PM.

[Deathlike]

DV McKenna, on 28 December 2014 - 12:19 PM, said:

I have never encountered the problem im talking about on Boreal.

I've seen this enough times to see it occur... including the brief time SJR was still in CSJ. The game was ggclose from the start.

The things better players do will make you wonder why the harvesting of the bad players is kinda sad.

Lucy Lui, on 28 December 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

This is the greatest idea since sliced bread, please, please, please, implement this.

Let the farming commence.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

R Razor, on 28 December 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

Bad idea, just gives the spawn campers more mech options (since they won't have to use JJ equipped mechs to hop the closed gates) to use when they decide to rush the attackers spawn at the beginning. They can wait as long as it takes since that's their preferred play style.

But it's totally ok for the attacking team to sit around and waste 30 mins x 12 worth of time.

[R Razor]

DV McKenna, on 28 December 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

But it's totally ok for the attacking team to sit around and waste 30 mins x 12 worth of time.

Sure is, they still lose the game, you still get a win, you just don't get to rush off and do another drop where you spawn camp and get that win as quickly. I know, takes away your enjoyment of the game I'm sure, but then I'd imagine the guys being spawn camped don't much enjoy their game either. Kinda evens out,

[Koniving]

DV McKenna, on 28 December 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

As title, im bored of either waiting 15 mins for people to understand how to open the gate, and im even more bored of teams that know they can't win so actively sit near their spawn for 30 mins just to tie teams up so they can't re-que to give other teams free wins.

You can manually open the gate as the defenders by firing upon the gate controls.

Demonstrated here. Begin at 22 minutes.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

R Razor, on 28 December 2014 - 12:29 PM, said:

Sure is, they still lose the game, you still get a win, you just don't get to rush off and do another drop where you spawn camp and get that win as quickly. I know, takes away your enjoyment of the game I'm sure, but then I'd imagine the guys being spawn camped don't much enjoy their game either. Kinda evens out,

And that is ********.

[R Razor]

I'd also point out that a valid tactic in warfare is to keep enemy units tied up at a given location so that friendly units have more freedom of action. Valid tactic is valid.

DV McKenna, on 28 December 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

And that is ********.

You don't have to like it any more than we like playing against spawn campers that spam clan ER weapons and core half the team before the gates are breached.........it's still part of the game and it will still be used to keep you occupied while other teams and units take as much as they can from you.

[Thunder Child]

As much as I tend to disagree with R Razar usually, in this instance I agree that what the Attackers do is entirely up to them. Having been on the receiving end of a Clan Roflstomp (Flying Timberwolves EVERYWHERE, and only 3 mins into the match), I can totally understand a certain reluctance to let them loose into the attackers deployment zone.

And, as Razar pointed out, it is a valid tactic for a large unit to tie up a particularly bothersome group, so that the rest of unit can engage freely.

Allowing the Defenders to voluntarily open the gates (so they can spawn camp the PUG Attackers?), I say no.

What we REALLY need, is better map design. These maps are terrible.

[Dirty Starfish]

Koniving, on 28 December 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

You can manually open the gate as the defenders by firing upon the gate controls.

Demonstrated here. Begin at 22 minutes.

That was the attackers opening the gate. You can see their ppcs and medlas in the top right.

[Lukoi Banacek]

I vote no for the obvious reasons already posted. You can jump out if you are impatient (yes I know it requires you to be in a certain mech type).

Much like other modes like conquest or assault where someone may choose to take objectives over your desire to fight, players elect to leave you bottled up inside for 30 while their zerg wins other tokens from you by not opening the gates for that particular match.

Now...make it a unanimous vote toggle and I am game.