12 replies to this topic

[Kraftwerkedup]

10. Force Majeure. Neither party shall be responsible for a failure to fulfil its obligations under this Agreement or for delay in doing so if such failure or delay is due to circumstances beyond its reasonable control, such as acts of God, acts of government, war, riots, strikes and accidents in transportation, but excluding a lack of financing, cash or credit.


So I dont have to follow the EULA, if im at war?

This is a completely non sensical and totally irreverent discussion, im not trying to start a debate.

I just thought this was hilarious.

NEITHER party, PGI or myself, shall be responsible for a failure to fulfill (spelling error PGI, get yo lawyers to fix yo) its obligations (abiding by the EULA/Terms of use) or for delay if such failure or delay is due to circumstances beyond reasonable control, but not because "we aint got money".

So that means PGI also has to fulfill its end of the bargain even if its broke?

Im just curious how loose this really is (which obviously it isnt very loose, this is just for fun).

If say, the school teachers, as they seem to do in my city, go on strike and block me from getting to work, and im angry about that, can I come in here and scream profanities, released from the terms of use, because of a legal 'act of god', or does it specifically have to interupt the process of utilizing the terms of use.

Would the riot have to break out while im making a post, and then scream "HOLY MOTHER OF _____" in response to it, in a post, to be able to side step the contract?

Does the riot have to be a physical real world riot, or just a forum riot, because...well...

And what else could this potentially include?

Solar flares.
Nano machine plague.
Asteroid.
Bob Dole.
Ant Christ
Zombies
Running Zombies

What other potential 'acts of god' could disrupt obligations made in the Terms of Use agreement that would allow total Mechwarrior Online Pandemonium to ensue without repercussion from moderators or game managers?

Can I order thousands of dollars worth of Mechs, from a bank in the Ukraine, and then not have to pay for it?

These are the questions that keep me up at night.

[Tyler Valentine]

LOL! Always a riot going on here (you and I in another post for example ) so I guess we're exempt.

[Kraftwerkedup]

And then with the Ukraine, does PGI take the Ukrainian leftists side, or the pro-Russian side?

If you ask the Russians, theres not a war on.

If you ask the Ukrainians, stuff is exploding.

So im buying some mechs with Euros, but I dont want to pay for them because my country is at war.

If PGI says no, you have to pay for that, does that defacto make them pro Russian sympathizers? Whats the legality of all this?!?!

lolol

[Mystere]

Kraftwerkedup, on 15 December 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

And then with the Ukraine, does PGI take the Ukrainian leftists side, or the pro-Russian side?

If you ask the Russians, theres not a war on.

If you ask the Ukrainians, stuff is exploding.

So im buying some mechs with Euros, but I dont want to pay for them because my country is at war.

If PGI says no, you have to pay for that, does that defacto make them pro Russian sympathizers? Whats the legality of all this?!?!

lolol

Well, unless you are able to get MWO "for money only" stuff without paying for it, your point is moot.

[Kraftwerkedup]

You mean like the people who cancelled their orders with their CCs, got their stuff, then got banned?

Thats totally possible.

So basically had those people not paid because of war, or alien invasion, they wouldnt have been banned. Thats what the clause is for.

Either way, PGI got paid, regardless of the cancellation. But that was against the ToS (and a jerk thing to do in protest).

However, had you made an order, got your stuff, and Brad Pitt from Fight Club blew up your credit card company, you probably will never actually pay for it. THEN you couldnt be banned.

I just think its interesting. Almost all ToS's have this, and I always think its hilarious.

Edited by Kraftwerkedup, 15 December 2015 - 12:34 PM.

[Chuck Jager]

Truth be told looking for exceptions for the rules should be left to middle school students on the day the teacher hands out the piece of paper with expectations.

I had one teacher who just said.
One rule do right or leave.
If you did not know how to behave you were not welcome.

PGI and the game MWO is their own private property and they can control your access to it. Even if it pertains to a legal issue or financial agreement where you were in the right, You will have to take them to court to prove it based on the the laws and their EULA TOS CoC etc. If it is financial, you can usually only recover the money lost in that matter without additional damages.

Short version - they can end your stay anytime they want by flipping a switch. All of the written material is worthless until a court interprets it.

Shorter version with a long history - treat others like you wish to be treated.

additional - I have a long history of managing customers/clients. Anytime an issue comes up where we may share some of the responsibility, the determining factor is what type of person is the client. If they are always trying to get the upper hand and point out what we owe them, we just cut them loose. It is not worth our time trying to make unhappy people happy, and it takes away from the quality we can provide to the folks who like our products and services.

[Kraftwerkedup]

Thats also an interesting point. All of these EULAs and ToS's and whatnot are basically just fluff. You, or they, can do pretty much anything you want until youre actually on the hook for it. Until the banhammer actually swings, or the company is sitting infront of a judge, its all just meaningless.

In what realistic scenario does a war, flood, zombies, biblical armageddon, spawn a legal battle over a game company or customers actions?

Very few actual cases have happened AT ALL with regards to these kind of eventualities with people throwing legal whathaveyous at each other.

Besides just a few cases of software companies actually being taken to court by disgruntled customers or upset fans, both the company, and the user, is pretty insulated from any actual legal recourse.

Anyone can just start a new account.

The company can ban or refund whoever they want, whenever they want, with impunity. The smaller you are, the more likely you are to "get away with it".

When KONG members were getting banned left and right, it was easy, because they were very visible. When Sony got sued, thats easy, Sony makes headlines, theyre very visible.

When the guy from Battlecruiser 3000 AD or whatever whined about taking Chris Roberts to court, that went no where.

No one actually cares about Star Citizen or Battlecruiser 3000. So their ToS and bans and whatnot, refund hooplah and internet flame war, were pretty pointless.

Edited by Kraftwerkedup, 15 December 2015 - 02:21 PM.

[AssaultPig]

I'm not sure what is so hard to understand about this clause

it means that parties to the agreement aren't required to fulfill their obligations under it if prevented from doing so by forces beyond their control. i.e. if PGI's offices are swallowed by the earth tomorrow, you can't pursue them for failure to fulfill their obligations under the EULA (since presumably they were not in control of the earth swallowing their offices.)

[Troutmonkey]

Basically you're allowed to go AFK if bombs start exploding at the front of your house, and you're not going to be banned for disconnecting if lightning strikes your local exchange.

[Chados]

It's legal boilerplate, nothing more. Seen this language in contracts many times (I'm a lawyer in RL). Their legal counsel probably includes that clause in all business contracts he or she drafts.

[sycocys]

Sweet, Americans get an auto-pass!

War on Terror
War on Drugs
War on Poverty
War on Christmas
War on the 2nd Amendment
War on Muslim Refugees

The list goes on and on.... finally the wars have bought us some freedom!

[zagibu]

Technically, most EULAs are invalid in many EU countries anyway, because all conditions bound to a product must be known to the customer before the contract is sealed.

With free to play games, it's a bit more difficult, but for pay up front software, EULAs are actually not binding, if they are not presented to you before you buy.

[TLBFestus]

If PGI goes broke, it's "beyond their control" and they don't have to keep going.

Sure you could argue that's not correct, but if you've been around here long enough you know that they can always pull out the "insanity defense" card.