18 replies to this topic

[izzycat218]

After climbing up to tier 3 my perception of the game has changed some. There isn't a clear pay to win in this game but there defiantly a power creep when it comes to old mechs and new mechs. I went through tier 4 with just my highlander 732B. There are chassis I refuse to fight one on one or at close range due to hard point inflation and structure & armor quirks.

I also noticed in the lower tiers the variety of chassis I say was larger as I climbed up I started to see more of a limited selection. Which is sad to me and it seems like this is the case because they're easy to play and don't take any effort to do well in them. I feel like all mechs that have been deemed bad are the ones people don't want to put in the time to learn to play them. Which leads to the cycle we're in now where PGI just throws new mechs out in order to keep up with their self made power creep.

I have also noticed the dreaded 12 mans aren't so bad when you're in a group of 8. Some are pretty good and others have yet to impress me. The unit I'm with are quite casual and some only play one day a week and we win 90% of our games when we're a large group. Teamwork really is the most op thing in this game. I do think the tonnage limits are a tiny bit unfair when a team faces 6 100 ton assaults on the enemy team but it is what it is.

So in the end I've come to enjoy what the game is and don't have any expectations anymore. We're three years in since open bata the cycle has been set as far as development and business model. Only thing I hope they truly fix is hit registration and black hole hit boxes.

[Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-]

Your Highlander might not be doing in higher tiers because of there are other mechs that can do what it does better. Also, PGIs "quirk" system encourages particular mechs at higher tiers, especially cause higher tier players min/max and don't just go with "lore" builds. Direct first and hardpoint placement is another factor. There isn't pay to win at all in this game to be honest. There is just sh1tty balance. Most of the "OP" mechs right now are actually mechs that are available for cbills. The only thing you have to pay for in this game are mechbays and colours and patterns.

One more thing, the tier system actually punishes you for getting better, because you end up not doing as well when you start playing with better players.

Not particularly defending PGIs "wonderful" balance pass, but just saying it isn't pay to win. Also, the old mechs versus new mechs - some of the oldest mechs in this game are now the most OP too. Look at the quirks.

Edited by Telemachus Rheade, 24 December 2015 - 08:53 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

The 732B treats me fine in Tier 1. I love that mech. It is slow but will be devastating when positioned correctly.

But yeah, I have an alternative account that I played in tier 4, and wow... definitely a different experience.

[izzycat218]

Telemachus Rheade, on 24 December 2015 - 08:51 AM, said:

Your Highlander might not be doing in higher tiers because of there are other mechs that can do what it does better. Also, PGIs "quirk" system encourages particular mechs at higher tiers, especially cause higher tier players min/max and don't just go with "lore" builds. Direct first and hardpoint placement is another factor. There isn't pay to win at all in this game to be honest. There is just sh1tty balance. Most of the "OP" mechs right now are actually mechs that are available for cbills. The only thing you have to pay for in this game are mechbays and colours and patterns.

One more thing, the tier system actually punishes you for getting better, because you end up not doing as well when you start playing with better players.

Not particularly defending PGIs "wonderful" balance pass, but just saying it isn't pay to win. Also, the old mechs versus new mechs - some of the oldest mechs in this game are now the most OP too. Look at the quirks.

There are many things that need fixing. I feel the marauder is a little pay to win since hitboxes seem to be broken and not registering clean hits to them. Other than that the game is free of pay to win. I'm not really having problems in the highlander I know what it can do and I know what is to much for it to handle. I still end up in the top 4 out of the 24 players most of the time. Like you said balance is terrible though they made some progress. Mainly the atlas. But it honestly they only help their personal favorite mechs and all others don't matter. I tweeted Russ about fixing the quirks on the highlander with no ballistic mount that has gauss quirks. He blew it of and said it wasn't hurting anything. When in reality it makes their company and the game look bad. I've gotten to the point where I'm done chasing the next new mech and I'm going to specialize in the mechs I like.

Gas Guzzler, on 24 December 2015 - 08:56 AM, said:

The 732B treats me fine in Tier 1. I love that mech. It is slow but will be devastating when positioned correctly.

But yeah, I have an alternative account that I played in tier 4, and wow... definitely a different experience.

Glad to see it can compete at higher tiers. Hopefully I can do as well as you.

[Bishop Steiner]

izzycat218, on 24 December 2015 - 08:43 AM, said:

After climbing up to tier 3 my perception of the game has changed some. There isn't a clear pay to win in this game but there defiantly a power creep when it comes to old mechs and new mechs. I went through tier 4 with just my highlander 732B. There are chassis I refuse to fight one on one or at close range due to hard point inflation and structure & armor quirks.

I also noticed in the lower tiers the variety of chassis I say was larger as I climbed up I started to see more of a limited selection. Which is sad to me and it seems like this is the case because they're easy to play and don't take any effort to do well in them. I feel like all mechs that have been deemed bad are the ones people don't want to put in the time to learn to play them. Which leads to the cycle we're in now where PGI just throws new mechs out in order to keep up with their self made power creep.

I have also noticed the dreaded 12 mans aren't so bad when you're in a group of 8. Some are pretty good and others have yet to impress me. The unit I'm with are quite casual and some only play one day a week and we win 90% of our games when we're a large group. Teamwork really is the most op thing in this game. I do think the tonnage limits are a tiny bit unfair when a team faces 6 100 ton assaults on the enemy team but it is what it is.

So in the end I've come to enjoy what the game is and don't have any expectations anymore. We're three years in since open bata the cycle has been set as far as development and business model. Only thing I hope they truly fix is hit registration and black hole hit boxes.

Not really "old to new" at least not across the board.

2 of the most effective IS MEdiums are the Hunchback and CN9. They are also the two oldest mediums in the game. Shadowhawks got a nice shot in the arm too, recently.

With the new quirk pass, the Catapult is decent again, as is the Atlas. Jagers and TDrs are longtime stalwart mainstays of the Heavy Queue.

The issue is the meta becomes more pronounced, so things like LRMs take a nosedive in effectiveness, and you are facing more and more optimized laservomit. Which some of the newer chassis ARE better at. But Metas shift.

[izzycat218]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 December 2015 - 09:07 AM, said:

Not really "old to new" at least not across the board.

2 of the most effective IS MEdiums are the Hunchback and CN9. They are also the two oldest mediums in the game. Shadowhawks got a nice shot in the arm too, recently.

With the new quirk pass, the Catapult is decent again, as is the Atlas. Jagers and TDrs are longtime stalwart mainstays of the Heavy Queue.

The issue is the meta becomes more pronounced, so things like LRMs take a nosedive in effectiveness, and you are facing more and more optimized laservomit. Which some of the newer chassis ARE better at. But Metas shift.

Yes some of the oldies hold there own quite well but others have been left behind. Those are the mechs that should be getting the quirks the most I feel. In my unit some of the guys run trebuchet and awesomes for great affect but other than them I rarly see them on the field. On our website we have a forum about high damage games. I put up 1400 damage with 6 kills in the king crab. Which felt good and then one of the awesome pilots put up 1000 damage in the Fang with 4 or 5 kills I feel 1uped due to that. So I truly feel pilot skill trumps chassis and hard point location every time. I also feel meta mechs hurt ones own skill level by being easy to play. Since running highlander only my positioning and long range aim has significantly improved.

[JaxRiot]

As I said in another thread- Tier 3 is a wonky place to be.

Tier 1 players cant play against Tier 5 players. So if there is a Tier 1 player in a match, you can bet that there shouldnt be any Tier 4 or 5 players in that match. Which will put you at the bottom of the barrel for that match, being Tier 3.

Same goes for Tier 5 players. If there is a Tier 5 player in a match, you can also bet that there shouldnt be any Tier 2 or 1 players in that match. Which puts you at the top of the Tier food chain for that match, being Tier 3.

For me the game changed a lot when I hit Tier 3 and started playing more against Tier 2 and Tier 1 players. Even though Im not entirely sure that those players are flat out more 'Skilled' than other players, they are definitely more knowledgeable, and have put in the time to be able to obtain much more effective builds, complete with Skilled up and Moduled mechs, Things that lower Tier players are still working on usually.

As far as Pay To Win, Ive never believed that has been part of this game. Every class has effective mechs that can be competitive for C-Bills and available to everyone. Although getting the Mech Bays for them might require some money, but even then you can still earn mech bays by playing CW and still not spend any real money if someone so chooses

[izzycat218]

JaxRiot, on 24 December 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

As I said in another thread- Tier 3 is a wonky place to be.

Tier 1 players cant play against Tier 5 players. So if there is a Tier 1 player in a match, you can bet that there shouldnt be any Tier 4 or 5 players in that match. Which will put you at the bottom of the barrel for that match, being Tier 3.

Same goes for Tier 5 players. If there is a Tier 5 player in a match, you can also bet that there shouldnt be any Tier 2 or 1 players in that match. Which puts you at the top of the Tier food chain for that match, being Tier 3.

For me the game changed a lot when I hit Tier 3 and started playing more against Tier 2 and Tier 1 players. Even though Im not entirely sure that those players are flat out more 'Skilled' than other players, they are definitely more knowledgeable, and have put in the time to be able to obtain much more effective builds, complete with Skilled up and Moduled mechs, Things that lower Tier players are still working on usually.


As far as Pay To Win, Ive never believed that has been part of this game. Every class has effective mechs that can be competitive for C-Bills and available to everyone. Although getting the Mech Bays for them might require some money, but even then you can still earn mech bays by playing CW and still not spend any real money if someone so chooses

Being I play 90% group que where psr isn't taken into account I've played against tier 1&2 before so I'm not worried. Like you said it's a knowledge and more practice difference really. The guys that play daily are the ones to watch out for in my experience.

[MechWarrior5152251]

I love farming Tier 4 with my alt account:) I may even make another new account to farm Tier 5

[JaxRiot]

King Alen, on 24 December 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

Tier 1 and Tier 5 are the only Tiers that can not be in the same Match.

Tier 1's fight against tier 1-4

Tier 5's fight against tier 2-5.

Unless I missed some update.

I was under the impression that it was two ranks either way,

1's can play against Tiers as low as 3 (2)

5's can only play agaist Tiers as high as 3 (2)

Which is also why Tier 3's can play against Tier 5's and 1's. Its two Tiers both ways.

Unless Im wrong, in which case I stand corrected

[izzycat218]

MechWarrior5152251, on 24 December 2015 - 09:45 AM, said:

I love farming Tier 4 with my alt account:) I may even make another new account to farm Tier 5

I've faced you a few times in group que. I feel bad for new players having to face a vet but to be honest I wasn't too impressed. You could be helpful and give them pointers as you club them. I personally would rather face tier one competitive guys all the time to force myself to play better. To each there own I guess. Have fun clubbing.

[Sandpit]

izzycat218, on 24 December 2015 - 08:43 AM, said:

After climbing up to tier 3 my perception of the game has changed some. There isn't a clear pay to win in this game but there defiantly a power creep when it comes to old mechs and new mechs. I went through tier 4 with just my highlander 732B. There are chassis I refuse to fight one on one or at close range due to hard point inflation and structure & armor quirks.

I also noticed in the lower tiers the variety of chassis I say was larger as I climbed up I started to see more of a limited selection. Which is sad to me and it seems like this is the case because they're easy to play and don't take any effort to do well in them. I feel like all mechs that have been deemed bad are the ones people don't want to put in the time to learn to play them. Which leads to the cycle we're in now where PGI just throws new mechs out in order to keep up with their self made power creep.

I have also noticed the dreaded 12 mans aren't so bad when you're in a group of 8. Some are pretty good and others have yet to impress me. The unit I'm with are quite casual and some only play one day a week and we win 90% of our games when we're a large group. Teamwork really is the most op thing in this game. I do think the tonnage limits are a tiny bit unfair when a team faces 6 100 ton assaults on the enemy team but it is what it is.

So in the end I've come to enjoy what the game is and don't have any expectations anymore. We're three years in since open bata the cycle has been set as far as development and business model. Only thing I hope they truly fix is hit registration and black hole hit boxes.

The higher you go, the more meta and min/max players you face. That's the difference really. I'm halfway through Tier 3 and I run about as far from meta builds and chassis as you can. I do very well and have faced and won against organized 12mans, I've also faced and gotten facerolled by other teams.

Run what YOU enjoy running. Stop worrying about tier. The point of Tier is really to help separate pilots a bit on skill level AND for you to find your niche. Elo worked the same way, you just couldn't see it. This PSR formula adds to the Elo formula so it's actually better in my opinion.

That's getting off-topic a bit though, as I was saying, it's not so much about chassis and build, it's more about finding a mech that fits your style and hardpoints for that style honestly. Some are going to tell you that "THIS" mech is the only "good" mech and such. The bottom line is that, with VERY few exceptions, there's no such thing as a "bad" mech. People do really well in "bad" mechs all the time. Find the mechs that you enjoy, learn how they move, learn their strengths and weaknesses.

If I tried to pilot my HB or Stalker, or Tbolt, or Spider, or Phract, or etc. the same way I do my HGN, they'd do very poorly. Each mech has a very distinctive style if you pay attention to it. Find the chassis that fits your style. Then experiment with different loadouts on that chassis.

If you do that, you'll fine the "meta" is really nothing more than a few min/maxers who think the only "good" mech are the ones that mathematically perform better on paper.
In a single-player game, that might be more effective, against human opponents that don't follow a pattern aren't as easy to fight against.

Find a mech you enjoy, find a role that you and it excel at, practice that role. Watch others who play a similar role. Watch where they move, when they move, what they pick fights with, when they back off, etc.

You'll learn far more about improving doing that than you ever will reading "meta" builds.

[JaxRiot]

King Alen, on 24 December 2015 - 09:52 AM, said:

Tier 3 can fight everyone

Right.... which is exactly what I said. Tier 3's can fight Tier 1's and Tier 5's. Its + or - 2 Tiers.

King Alen, on 24 December 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

Tier 1 and Tier 5 are the only Tiers that can not be in the same Match.

Tier 1's fight against tier 1-4

Tier 5's fight against tier 2-5.

Unless I missed some update.

According to what you wrote here, a Tier 4 can fight a Tier 1. Thats not true. That would be a 3 Tier jump.

Tier 4's can only fight 2 Tiers above them. Which means they can only fight people as high as Tier 2. Not Tier 1.

If that were the case, then once people hit Tier 4, they would have to fight against everyone.

Whatever Tier you are, just add or subtract 2 Tiers, and that will be the range in which you can play against. Not 3.

And as far as I know, it has been this way since Tiers were introduced. I dont think there has been any updates that changed it.

[saagri]

When I reach Tier 1, I can't wait to dust off the locust.

[Sandpit]

King Alen, on 24 December 2015 - 10:30 AM, said:

Yep just they way you are saying it threw me off.

Tier 1 Fight Tier 1-3
Tier 5 Fight Tier 2-5

The important thing to remember, those Tier 1's and 5's will never face Tier 1. If you're Tier 3 you can face all of them, but you'll never be in a match with Tier5 on one side and Tier 1 on the other.

I've seen several "Vets" try to troll players by saying they're "new" in matches when I know dam well they've been playing this game at least as long as I have and recognize names from the forums. Which, incidentally, is why you can't rely on anecdotal evidence to prove or as the basis for anything.

[Amsro]

Hold strong good sir!

I still HIghlander all the time, play what you want and do it how you want. This always helps if you are good it at too!

The power creep is real and there will always be a better mech at some point.

I prefer to use the "bad mechs" (all mechs) and have fun, then to use the "best mechs" and try hard.

Edited by Amsro, 24 December 2015 - 11:26 AM.

[Elizander]

You probably just need to adjust your playstyle.

[Sandpit]

Elizander, on 24 December 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

You probably just need to adjust your playstyle.

This is also something you may want to look at as well.

If you consistently do under 250 damage, chances are it's more to do with your build, playstyle, chassis, personal skills, etc.

If you're doing over 250 on a regular basis, then you want to look at how you position yourself for the fight. When I run a lurm boat, I keep as many of my teammates between me and the enemy as possible. That doesn't mean I'm using them as a shield, it means that to get into brawling range on me, the enemy is going to have to fight all the way through my team's brawlers.

If I'm in a brawling mech, I position myself at our group's forward position so I can be at frontlines and make their brawlers pay while my lurm support chews them up.

Use the minimap.
Use the minimap
Use the minimap

You have to pay attention to it. Just glance at it on a regular basis the same way you scan panels when driving a car. Yes, all your teammates might be in E4 and E5, but what direction are they facing?

If you're the only one facing right and they're all facing left and start pushing, you're going to find yourself in a REALLY bad position many times. YOu have to anticipate where the fight will move to and keep rotating as need be. Don't be afraid to stop firing and reposition if need be.

Losing 10 seconds of firepower is always better than losing an entire mech.

[maniacos]

izzycat218, on 24 December 2015 - 08:43 AM, said:

After climbing up to tier 3 my perception of the game has changed some. There isn't a clear pay to win in this game but there defiantly a power creep when it comes to old mechs and new mechs. I went through tier 4 with just my highlander 732B. There are chassis I refuse to fight one on one or at close range due to hard point inflation and structure & armor quirks.

I also noticed in the lower tiers the variety of chassis I say was larger as I climbed up I started to see more of a limited selection. Which is sad to me and it seems like this is the case because they're easy to play and don't take any effort to do well in them. I feel like all mechs that have been deemed bad are the ones people don't want to put in the time to learn to play them. Which leads to the cycle we're in now where PGI just throws new mechs out in order to keep up with their self made power creep.

I have also noticed the dreaded 12 mans aren't so bad when you're in a group of 8. Some are pretty good and others have yet to impress me. The unit I'm with are quite casual and some only play one day a week and we win 90% of our games when we're a large group. Teamwork really is the most op thing in this game. I do think the tonnage limits are a tiny bit unfair when a team faces 6 100 ton assaults on the enemy team but it is what it is.

So in the end I've come to enjoy what the game is and don't have any expectations anymore. We're three years in since open bata the cycle has been set as far as development and business model. Only thing I hope they truly fix is hit registration and black hole hit boxes.

Since I am T3 Pugging has become a PITA because you get a wide varity of all skill levels but the distributions over the teams is bad.