10 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

It was brought to my attention that the Command Champion build was garbage... because it was part of a default dropdeck in CW.

So... just because everyone needs a smurfy reference... here you go:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b#i=397&l=stock


I don't know who was ultimately responsible for this, but trolling everyone doesn't help here.

There are simple tenants of actually running a Light mech build... and they aren't very complicated...


1) DON'T USE STD ENGINES

2) Gotta go fast.

3) DON'T USE STD ENGINES, See point #1


I understand the build mechanics, but telling the new player to shield with his left side while going at the same speed as a Arctic Cheetah is trying to get this player killed in a hurry.

The only times where the Command was kinda relevant was when we had CT-seeking Streaks or when the Lolcust debuted. Many quickages later, the Lolcust is a more threatening target than the lowly Commando... most in due part to the Commando's hardpoints being rather lacking.


While I have some base ideas put into the builds I'm going to link, seriously... don't put STD engines in Light mechs... just no.


More SRM firepower (and obviously speed) than the current Champion build:
COM-1D(C)

MPL based variation:
COM-1D(C)

Streaks based version:
COM-1D(C)


To point out flaws in the current Champion build:

1) Uses STD engine (players need to learn torso twist before making the most of that kind of build).

2) Too slow (because of using the STD engines) - pretty much every other Lights are predators vs this build (well, with the exception of the Spider-5V and supposed "Dakka Panther" of fail - PNT-10P). Heck, even the Mist Lynx is more powerful under this ridiculous circumstance.

3) Not making use of the 2 missile slots in the CT (2 SRM2s is more effective than 1 SRM 4 in terms of spread and DPS/damage, especially if you manage to get the weapon critted in the CT).


I guess that's my PSA for those trying to run this disaster in CW.

Edited by Deathlike, 17 March 2016 - 09:33 AM.

[dervishx5]

I'll kick your *** in my Commando 2D. It's a Huggin with ECM that's the size of an Atlas's arm.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

If you're going to STD engine Commando, at least do it right:
COM-1B
DEATH'S KNELL

This is what SHOULD have been done with the Commando:
COM-1D(C)

And these are the builds I've done best in:
COM-1B
DEATH'S KNELL
COM-3A

EDIT:

*Card carrying member of Commando Pilots Anonymous

Edited by Saint Scarlett Johan, 17 March 2016 - 09:48 AM.

[Deathlike]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 17 March 2016 - 09:47 AM, said:

*Card carrying member of Commando Pilots Anonymous

I still have a soft place in my heart for Commandos... and it's not like the Lolcust needs a nerf... it's that the Commandos need actual buffs.

Also, Terciel pointed out to me thru PMs about the back armor. It's something that I kinda overlook... but the reality is that using smurfy's "max armor" button is the most common artifact and for whatever reason PGI didn't look to actually fixing those values on this build and other Light Champion builds) for whatever the reason.

Just a "quality" job.

Edit:
Looking over the other Champion Lights... only the Arctic Cheetah Champion has good back values... the rest... not so much. You know there's something wrong with the armor values when the allocated front CT armor is LESS than the allocated leg armor.

Edited by Deathlike, 17 March 2016 - 10:05 AM.

[sycocys]

I'm curious what players actually voted for a Commando with a STD engine? If you are going to trial people on IS lights they need to have XL engines.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Deathlike, on 17 March 2016 - 10:01 AM, said:

I still have a soft place in my heart for Commandos... and it's not like the Lolcust needs a nerf... it's that the Commandos need actual buffs.

Also, Terciel pointed out to me thru PMs about the back armor. It's something that I kinda overlook... but the reality is that using smurfy's "max armor" button is the most common artifact and for whatever reason PGI didn't look to actually fixing those values on this build and other Light Champion builds) for whatever the reason.

Just a "quality" job.

Edit:
Looking over the other Champion Lights... only the Arctic Cheetah Champion has good back values... the rest... not so much.

There are but a select few mechs I have that run more than 1-3 points of back armor. And those few that do (AWS, BLR, VTR) all have easily hit rear torso hit boxes from the front (AWS) and from the sides (VTR, BLR).

I even did a little game with Kin3tix one week where every time we died from a direction we'd bump the armor levels up one point in that direction. By the end of the week, I had most of my mechs with 100% of their armor on the front.

[QuantumButler]

I'm pretty sure people who voted for it in the trial thread just wanted new pilots trying out the trial commando to suffer.

[STEF_]

Deathlike, on 17 March 2016 - 09:32 AM, said:

It was brought to my attention that the Command Champion build was garbage... because it was part of a default dropdeck in CW.

So... just because everyone needs a smurfy reference... here you go:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b#i=397&l=stock


I don't know who was ultimately responsible for this, but trolling everyone doesn't help here.

There are simple tenants of actually running a Light mech build... and they aren't very complicated...


1) DON'T USE STD ENGINES

2) Gotta go fast.

3) DON'T USE STD ENGINES, See point #1


I understand the build mechanics, but telling the new player to shield with his left side while going at the same speed as a Arctic Cheetah is trying to get this player killed in a hurry.

The only times where the Command was kinda relevant was when we had CT-seeking Streaks or when the Lolcust debuted. Many quickages later, the Lolcust is a more threatening target than the lowly Commando... most in due part to the Commando's hardpoints being rather lacking.


While I have some base ideas put into the builds I'm going to link, seriously... don't put STD engines in Light mechs... just no.


More SRM firepower (and obviously speed) than the current Champion build:
COM-1D(C)

MPL based variation:
COM-1D(C)

Streaks based version:
COM-1D(C)


To point out flaws in the current Champion build:

1) Uses STD engine (players need to learn torso twist before making the most of that kind of build).

2) Too slow (because of using the STD engines) - pretty much every other Lights are predators vs this build (well, with the exception of the Spider-5V and supposed "Dakka Panther" of fail - PNT-10P). Heck, even the Mist Lynx is more powerful under this ridiculous circumstance.

3) Not making use of the 2 missile slots in the CT (2 SRM2s is more effective than 1 SRM 4 in terms of spread and DPS/damage, especially if you manage to get the weapon critted in the CT).


I guess that's my PSA for those trying to run this disaster in CW.

but you know..... it's the champ, because some OP guy posted it, and the mayority of community liked it.

Another hint that pgi should never follow/listen community? (like GH, etc.etc.)

[dervishx5]

Stefka Kerensky, on 17 March 2016 - 10:12 AM, said:

but you know..... it's the champ, because some OP guy posted it, and the mayority of community liked it.

Another hint that pgi should never follow/listen community? (like GH, etc.etc.)

MAD CAT MK II!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LordMelvin]

dervishx5, on 17 March 2016 - 09:37 AM, said:

I'll kick your *** in my Commando 2D. It's a Huggin with ECM that's the size of an Atlas's arm.

I'm just picturing an atlas arm getting sheared off, then hopping up on its fingertips and sucker-punching a timberwolf in the nads.

[Deathlike]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 17 March 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:

There are but a select few mechs I have that run more than 1-3 points of back armor. And those few that do (AWS, BLR, VTR) all have easily hit rear torso hit boxes from the front (AWS) and from the sides (VTR, BLR).

I even did a little game with Kin3tix one week where every time we died from a direction we'd bump the armor levels up one point in that direction. By the end of the week, I had most of my mechs with 100% of their armor on the front.

As you get better, back armor is overrated... except for getting that dipped into in pub match play (where your back gets smashed into by teammates).

Of course, if you're playing in a group, this is obviously far less an issue.

QuantumButler, on 17 March 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure people who voted for it in the trial thread just wanted new pilots trying out the trial commando to suffer.

No...

I believe it has more to do with build/mechanics ignorance than anything else.

When you have people talking about "it's not the mech, it's the pilot"... the one thing they omit or completely misunderstand is that the pilot's competency can make up for the deficiencies in the mech, but when that's MIA in the case of the new player... then it becomes a liability.

A Commando by definition IS NOT EASY TO PILOT when you have overcome things that something like a Firestarter or Arctic Cheetah that doesn't have to deal with such deficiencies. A STD engine Light not something any w/o a hint of skill can just pull off consistently and successfully at higher levels of play. This in term requires a certain level of understanding of what you can and cannot do... and the more "cannots" on a mech... the more problematic it is to field that mech as a "good" option.

Stefka Kerensky, on 17 March 2016 - 10:12 AM, said:

but you know..... it's the champ, because some OP guy posted it, and the mayority of community liked it.

Another hint that pgi should never follow/listen community? (like GH, etc.etc.)

No... PGI needs to listen to the community... but they actually have to use their brains which rarely ever happens. Everyone asking for "heat penalties" didn't ask for ghost heat... they wanted the mech to slow down and/or become less agile as they overheat (akin to what happens in MW4). There are things there to be done, but PGI had to go a totally different route (for whatever reason, perhaps thinking they knew better, but obviously didn't) and thus when you balance the game for people that know little about mechanics (whether it be LRMs or crits in general), then it demonstrates a lack of understanding of the game.

I'm not saying I would be great at balancing the game... I'll admit to effing stuff up, but I'm always willing to tweak, change, and readjust... and not at the rate our balance overlord is doing it (which is whenever enough complaints/tweets occur). Pretty much you can find anyone at a comp play level actually building these things AND actually putting into practice WHILE noting there are prerequisites/requirements for things to work the way they do.

So, we'll be here again soon™ talking about things that weren't fully considered or thought out because some people aren't playing the same game that they think they are.