9 replies to this topic

[Sassori]

May not gain a lot of traction, but, what if Loyalist units had a larger drop cap than mercenary units? Not a lot, maybe 20 tons, so that loyalists which are supposed to be better supplied and have better logistics.

Have this apply to Clan and IS loyalist units then people might stick around for the versatility and power that brings to CW while non-loyalists will be able to bounce around if they want.

Another alternative is to allow Loyaly Points (LP) purchase mech chassis and such as an alternative to C-Bills, they could offer loyalist only variants, all sorts of things they could do to promote Loyalists and it'd even be loretastic since in Lore certain mechs were only really available to certain factions.

Just a thought or seven.

[NextGame]

I'm not sure I'm seeing the problem between loyalist and mercenary units, they are essentially the same thing other than one group doesn't want to move around and the other does.

[Sassori]

The problem is that the big merc units jumping around are severely unbalancing CW. Look what happened to the Clan, who doesn't seem to have a lot of loyalist units. I know in the SO a fair few of us (like me) were missing the days when we'd run into actual good fights. It still happens, occasionally, but not as often as we'd like and our rollcall has suffered for it as people are just not bothering to play right now in a lot of cases.

I am sure my experience may vary, since SO is pretty big these days (I think we're sitting at over 380 or 390 members) but we used to field 3 12 mans at a time in CW and now we struggle to field one most of the time it seems.

Since so many people are complaining about the pug stomps etc, if Loyalist units had a larger drop deck than regular units it'd give people an impetus to stay loyal to a faction since you'd have more freedom in what you brought to the CW.

[Lupis Volk]

I think the issue is to get the max "rewards" you have to constantly migrate between the powers.

[Sassori]

It's not max rewards. To get max rewards you have to get every faction to 20. That will get you the most mech bays. The people who migrate quick trying to get rewards, are just trying to get the initial mechbay or two from each faction and then move on. It's faster for sure, but it's not the max rewards possible.

[Half Ear]

Christopher Dayson, on 03 January 2016 - 02:04 PM, said:

It's not max rewards. To get max rewards you have to get every faction to 20. That will get you the most mech bays. The people who migrate quick trying to get rewards, are just trying to get the initial mechbay or two from each faction and then move on. It's faster for sure, but it's not the max rewards possible.

Sure, at one time, but there are both mech bays and MC to earn, along with other stuff. Until EVERYONE in the unit is at top rank and stop taking in recruits, there is no reason to keep switching to earn and play different tech.

Right not EVERYONE is considered a merc in the game. The loyalty bonus to stay with a House or Clan is small, there really is NO real in-game benefit staying loyal to one Clan/House.

PGI has from the start wanted everyone to be a merc, even before MWO. They were trying to get the game off the ground but had an outline of what would be coming, starting with the initial combat engine but they do not have the staff to flesh out the rest of the game quickly, to make it MEAN something to belong to a Clan or House, there is no CoC outside of a unit, there is nothing to glue said units together cause the CW is not the primary focus of the game and likely will not be for a few years, if that.

Edited by Half Ear, 03 January 2016 - 06:51 PM.

[Kjudoon]

Christopher Dayson, on 02 January 2016 - 10:25 PM, said:

May not gain a lot of traction, but, what if Loyalist units had a larger drop cap than mercenary units? Not a lot, maybe 20 tons, so that loyalists which are supposed to be better supplied and have better logistics.

Have this apply to Clan and IS loyalist units then people might stick around for the versatility and power that brings to CW while non-loyalists will be able to bounce around if they want.

Another alternative is to allow Loyaly Points (LP) purchase mech chassis and such as an alternative to C-Bills, they could offer loyalist only variants, all sorts of things they could do to promote Loyalists and it'd even be loretastic since in Lore certain mechs were only really available to certain factions.

Just a thought or seven.

Loyalists pay no Rearm & Repair on Faction equipment and minimal costs for non faction equipment.
Mercs pay a lot more for R&R for faction equipment and black market costs for non-faction equipment repair and can use unit coffers to cover part of the costs.
Freelancers pay blackmarket costs on all R&R personally and can't share use unit coffers

Also;

Loyalists earn the most loyalty points
Mercs, earn less, but can rapidly increase to base loyalist status over long periods of service
Freelancers earn little loyalty points and reach merc status only after long periods of service.

Use Loyalty points like a new currency that is a cross between CBills and MC.

[NextGame]

R&R in the past has proven to be terrible for gameplay in the past and we certainly don't need it back if it doesn't apply to everyone universally.

However, it would be reasonable if there was say a 5% discount on R&R for loyalists units for specific chassis that are associated with that faction.

Christopher Dayson, on 03 January 2016 - 01:43 PM, said:

The problem is that the big merc units jumping around are severely unbalancing CW. Look what happened to the Clan, who doesn't seem to have a lot of loyalist units. I know in the SO a fair few of us (like me) were missing the days when we'd run into actual good fights. It still happens, occasionally, but not as often as we'd like and our rollcall has suffered for it as people are just not bothering to play right now in a lot of cases.

I am sure my experience may vary, since SO is pretty big these days (I think we're sitting at over 380 or 390 members) but we used to field 3 12 mans at a time in CW and now we struggle to field one most of the time it seems.

Since so many people are complaining about the pug stomps etc, if Loyalist units had a larger drop deck than regular units it'd give people an impetus to stay loyal to a faction since you'd have more freedom in what you brought to the CW.

The whole merc/loyalist thing is just another case of people moaning that they cant win because they wont make use of the same tools that are available to everyone else. Why should some players be given a tailor made advantage over others?

Success shouldn't not be penalised, which is basically what people moaning about successful merc groups are asking for.

All teams have a churn issue, particularly as a game gets older, which MWO pretty much is at this point despite it's steam release.

Contracts need a revamp, which is what we are getting, thats all that is needed.

[Hotthedd]

NextGame, on 04 January 2016 - 08:14 AM, said:

R&R in the past has proven to be terrible for gameplay in the past and we certainly don't need it back if it doesn't apply to everyone universally.

It wasn't done well earlier in MW:O, but it wasn't terrible for gameplay. If R&R is OPTIONAL, then there is NO reason not to have it

NextGame said:

The whole merc/loyalist thing is just another case of people moaning that they cant win because they wont make use of the same tools that are available to everyone else. Why should some players be given a tailor made advantage over others?

Success shouldn't not be penalised, which is basically what people moaning about successful merc groups are asking for.

Most of the complaints I see are about numbers, and how a sizable shift in those numbers unbalances the map.

NextGame, on 04 January 2016 - 08:14 AM, said:

Contracts need a revamp, which is what we are getting, thats all that is needed.

Oh, no. There is SO much more needed than that. CW needs a major overhaul.

[sycocys]

I mentioned this in another post, but the best way to balance loyalist/merc/units entirely is through leaderboards that incentive-ize smaller units (and loyal units as well on a different board) with better rewards than large units. Find a sweet spot in the 3-4 fielded 12 man range to be the prime target then it doesn't upset any balance at all.

Basically remove the map from the equation and mass amounts of roaming numbers becomes insignificant. Centralize the loyalty reward system so it doesn't promote wandering around with a bunch of free mechbays.

1 LP ladder is all you need, with rewards based on which House (or merc/no house so merc styled cockpit nonsense) you choose.