15 replies to this topic

[Blue Pheonix]

Hi all,

This post is really for regular Hellbringer players or players who were regular Hellbringer players in the past.

I have "elited" two Hellbringer builds (on my way to mastery) and I am finding them to be highly disappointing. They are huge in size, making them highly visible and damage sponges. This is not good as it seems their armor does not match their size. Even if their armor is fully maxed out. I regularly take more damage then my lance (in an artillery strike where we are equally close for instance). Their damage output does not seem that great either.

I have tried multiple builds for he Hell bringer (all with maxed out/close to maxed out armor):

Laser sniper - all large laser layout with ECM
Brawler/support: - all medium laser layout with an AC 5 and ECM

All of them are disappointing and I seem to regularly get "owned".

I've tried different tactics all of which involve staying fairly close (or really close) with team.

Lead Pusher - Being a bit more aggressive and being a primary pusher - this is bad idea
Support - Being more passive waiting for team to soften up enemy and providing ECM support before going in - I still get taken out fairly quickly once spotted. Even though I often try to take cover and poke.

None of these tactics seem to be really any good.

I consider myself a skilled player. Currently I am in Tier 3. My favorite mechs to pilot are lights. At first the Jenner and mastered it, then I found the "Ember" and loved it and mastered it. Now my favorite is the Artic Cheetah hands down. The artic cheetah is mastered and I love it. When I pilot these lights I am usually at the top of the "match score boards". When I pilot the "Hellbringer" I either get taken out quick or I survive but near the bottom of the match score board.

I am trying to get 4 "meta/maxed out" clan mechs to play in competitive clan play. Currently I have the artic cheetah maxed out. My four mechs consist of Hellbringer, Timber Wolf, Ice Ferret and Artic Cheetah. I'm thinking of just dropping the Hellbringer. The shame is I have invested so much time and money into almost mastering this mech.

Any suggestions on changing the lineup of my four clan mechs to work towards meta?
Any suggestions to improvement/what I could be doing wrong in the Hellbringer?

Edited by Blue Pheonix, 20 December 2015 - 09:50 AM.

[Spheroid]

The durability is average for a Clan heavy. Its not a Hellbringer problem, the Ebon Jaguar will die even quicker.

That ECM is very useful for CW though. No call letter means less focus fire and increased longevity.

Maybe try some pure laser builds with large pulse or the old meta laser/gauss combo. I suspect the autocannon is leading to increased exposure and the sniper build is simply too situational to regularly get high scores.

Edited by Spheroid, 20 December 2015 - 11:50 PM.

[SnagaDance]

In comparison to your beloved Arctic Cheetah, your Hellbringers are really slow. So far for the obvious.

They both also have that extremely nifty ECM, which almost acts as a force multiplier for any nearby friendly mechs that benefit from it.

This doesn't really apply to the Cheetah, he's too fast and moves around to much for any other mech to benefit from it. But that Hellbringer? Oh yeah, he most certainly brings that to the team, and clever team mates keep close to you for just that reason.

And what that entails is that versus any semi-competent player you just moved to the top of their target list. Relatively easy to hit, and a huge boon for their team if they take you out. Even if you don't bring ECM most players will automatically fire at a Hellbringer when they recognize the profile.

Hellbringers are good, the problem is that other players know it.

[Nyuuu]

They are awesome for CW, still absolutely in love with this build (originally from Rak's Armory)
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e1a47f5d62f0a8c

Seems a little under gunned at first, but the mounts are perfect for the so needed hill peeking and the heat efficient is excellent.
And it feels like most of the guys you face in CW are really drawn by the red doritos, if you are without one thanks to the ECM, you can often poke out of the same spot unopposed for minutes.

Still got two of those in my dropdeck if I really have to carry, together with a Timberwolf and my ACH...

Edited by Nyuuu, 20 December 2015 - 12:02 PM.

[Rogue Jedi]

stay slightly behind and to the side of a Timber Wolf or Dire Wolf (or really any Mech significantly more powerful than you), that is the best way to to survive longer, if a Timber or Dire walk around the corner, then a Hellbringer does a second later I would completely ignore the HBR until the larger threat is taken care of, as would most other players I know.

the secret to suvivablity is avoiding getting shot at, the best ways to do that are to stay out of sight or make sure something a lot more scary than you is standing next to you

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 20 December 2015 - 11:48 PM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

I have never owned a HBR. I DO own all four EBJs and three TBRs. And I'm saving my C-Bills now to start working up the HBR chassis. Also, like the OP, I cut my teeth on lights, and still have my best-ever match scores in ACH or SHC.

What I SEE of other mechwarriors flying HBR? Well, for one thing, it's RARE to see one that isn't carrying ECM. Given that the ECM RT LT omni also has three E hard points, and cECM is just a single ton and slot, there's hardly a reason to NOT carry it really.

HBR is still a 65-ton Clan omni. Geometry on it is maybe less optimal than with EBJ or TBR, but it's the same speed as both of those. And it's 10 tons lighter than a TBR, with the ability to carry similar loadouts AND (broken record) ECM.

No JJs, like the EBJ and unlike the TBR.

It's no brawler, and it can't really hill hump. The low-mounted, narrow arms aren't GREAT for corner peeking, either. And it's not a big specialist.

But, as stated above, and as cannot be overstated, having a 65-ton mech humping that ECM along with the ability to carry 4x cERLL (or 3x and 2x cERML), or with a Gauss and some cERMLs, is pretty darned valuable. You still see a LOT of HBRs in Clan drop decks in FW. And even in PUG drops, a lot of us like to hug the Hellbringer.

Yeah. Not the BEST heavy, but not bad at all.

Edited by TheRAbbi, 21 December 2015 - 03:14 AM.

[Stormie]

In previous MW titles I hould have agreed with you the Loki/Hellbringer always felt like it was giving up protection for extra firepower. That was what I was expecting when I got the full invasion wave 2 pack as my first paid purchase in MWO.

Overall I have been pleasantly surprised by the longevity and flexibility of the Hellbringer chassis (except when I was running half armour to squeeze 2 UAC20s and ammo in for lols).

As it stands now my prime is miles away my best performing faction warfare mech. I run it with a loudout similar to this (probably not exactly the same - it performs well enough that I've not been into the mechlab for it in months)
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...10cccc85f6378e6
I fire the highest of the torso lasers and the head laser together in one group and the other two torso lasers in a second group. remember you can be quite a way from the fight due to the range these things have. (I magnify this using a Laser range module and advanced zoom module).

Important to remember that most good players will automatically target your ECM side torso as on the majority of Loki builds it contains obviously the ECM but also a good chunk of you firepower (remembering losing that torso will lose the arm as well. - on a metamechs build that would leave you with just a single gauss rifle and a head laser)
Because of this the hellbringer and most of its most common builds don't do so well in the close range melee

Edited by Stormie, 20 December 2015 - 06:58 PM.

[Nightshade24]

Spheroid, on 20 December 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:

That ECM is very useful for CW though. No call letter means less focus fire and increased longevity.

"fire on that ECM hellbringer". I think ECM is good enough letters for this guy.

[Nerdboard]

First of all: The Hellbringer is an excellent mech.

As some have pointed out it is a heavy mech therefore faster and also bigger than the light mechs you usually pilot. It is however neither slow nor big compared to other heavy mechs (both IS and Clan). Like most clan mechs however it excels more at dishing out damage and being mobile than it does at tanking damage. It is rather easy to target the side torsos and your arms can not shield very well.

Now why is the Hellbringer still good? It has ECM and it has fantastic torso mounts. Both the ballistic in the right torso as well as the left torso energy and the head mounts are really high. This provides you with the ability to peek over hills and ridges without exposing too much of your mech and often not even giving your opponent the chance to return fire. And that is also how the Hellbringer should be played. You are not supposed to face mechs full front. Catch them from the side or simply assist your allies in a brawl. Here are several builds you can use to do so:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...523229241b40aab (2x U-AC/5 + 4 ERM)

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...03ce47c08e95cb7 (Gauss + 4ERM)

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f0ffa7e8b61df4f (4x ERLL Sniper)

If you want to go closer you can put in a U-AC/20 and some medium lasers or a pure laser boat with 6 medium pulse lasers. Those are some common builds which many people put to good use.

Your idea of being more supportive and less the lead pusher certainly is right for this mech. Maybe you just need to improve your positioning. If you want to still give it a try I would suggest looking for some Hellbringer gameplay on youtube. This could give you an idea of whether you just made many mistakes or had bad luck or whether the mech overall is not your style.

Also keep in mind that the Arctic Cheetah you like so much is an extremely forgiving mech. Good hitboxes, sometimes wonky hitreg, jumpjets and high speed will often allow you to get out of situations you should not have been in (I am a terrible light pilot yet I regularly get good scores with that thing). What I am trying to say here is that it is possible that your good mech has carried you up in tiers a bit faster than your own skills have improved. Therefore the youtube advice. But you will know best whether this is the case or not.

Finally if you are not convinced with the Hellbringer and still search for a mech for your dropdeck: Both the EBJ (with a horrible, horrible loadout) and the Stormcrow are available as trial mechs right now. The EBJ actually tends to get cored a lot faster than the Hellbringer so you will probably not like it. The Stormcrow however plays different and is faster. The trial mech also has a decent loadout. Give it a try and see if you feel like the mech could be worth its money. If you think the trial is horrible I would also advise against buying it.

I hope any or all of this helps.

tl;dr: Hellbringer is good. Some advice how to use it. If you dont like it give the Stormcrow trial a testrun.

Edited by Nerdboard, 20 December 2015 - 09:36 PM.

[N0Clip]

6 mediums, 2 streak 6's, and ecm. Stays cool enough, hits hard enough, and sneaks around. A pair of well places bursts from the mediums can put a serious hole in most anything you cant outrun, and quite a few things you can.

[STEF_]

I currently have 2 days in the prime, and 1 day and a half in the A variant. So, yes, I have a lot of fun piloting the bringers.

erll has a very long duration: that means you must expose your mech to enemy focus fire AND you are spreading the dmg.

best builds are:

gauss/4erml (sadly gauss has been nerfed recently)
2uac5/4erml
and my personal crazy build : 2uac10/4ersl

Do not put weapons or armor in arms. They are very low, while the torso hardpoints are very good.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I've gone through and mastered 3 Hellbringers. They are some very good mechs, so far they have gotten me more 1000+ damage games than any other mech.

The two builds I use most are the 6 medium pulse laser boat, which acts as a skirmisher by sticking with the team, covering them in ecm, then supporting from the second line with its 48 damage alpha. Its best if you aren't the one getting shot, so try and let your teammates take the damage, but support them. If you do get shot you can shield with your right side.

Second build I've been trying out was the 2 large pulse laser + 2 medium laser loadout. Got 1100+ damage match within the first hour running it. Its a monster at poking, and good hill humper with all weapons in the torso. This one is a much longer range worker than the other one, usually best at 500m or so range while the other sits at 300m. You'll want to stick with your team then poke at anyone who peeks, you do 40 damage per shot and can fire, twist your right side to them, then back right back into your cover.

Both builds rely on keeping cover or supporting enemies, there are some great brawling builds out there, like 6small pulse laser + SRMs, but those take a bit of luck and a decent amount of skill to get a good match with.

Heres the builds I use in smurfy so you can get a better idea of where everything is located.

Build 1: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e2070e18d831577
Build 2: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...18d8920172d7b62

I tried out ballistics on this thing before but found those builds a bit more limited than these in their potential. I also tried the 4 ERLL loadout before, I've seen some people do really good in it and I've done really good in it too, but it is situational. Its good on canyon network or alpine if you have a good team that can hold the front lines stable while you continuously beam away at the enemies, but its sort of like the 8 ERLL Dire Wolf, it really requires support from a good team.

[VATER]

Hellbringer is not a soft build, it is a major thread(ECM) on the Battlefield and thus will be primed more often. You can bet, that experienced players will shoot a HBR as soon as they have the opportunity. You are able to create a "Zombie-build" that is capable to use it's arms as shields and is still able to produce a serious amount of damage...



This is just an example, but you can see that they are able to produce...

I am pretty sure there is some snipers out there, that will confirm, that it is a solid sniper as well. As I stated, it is a threat on the battlefield due to it's ability to carry ECM.

The folks above gave some nice intel on builds that are valid.

Edited by VATER, 21 December 2015 - 06:10 AM.

[InsaneRotta]

SnagaDance, on 20 December 2015 - 11:54 AM, said:

In comparison to your beloved Arctic Cheetah, your Hellbringers are really slow. So far for the obvious.

They both also have that extremely nifty ECM, which almost acts as a force multiplier for any nearby friendly mechs that benefit from it.

This doesn't really apply to the Cheetah, he's too fast and moves around to much for any other mech to benefit from it. But that Hellbringer? Oh yeah, he most certainly brings that to the team, and clever team mates keep close to you for just that reason.

And what that entails is that versus any semi-competent player you just moved to the top of their target list. Relatively easy to hit, and a huge boon for their team if they take you out. Even if you don't bring ECM most players will automatically fire at a Hellbringer when they recognize the profile.

Hellbringers are good, the problem is that other players know it.

Pretty much everything Snaga said. I do really well in my hellbringers. The arms are useless, strip the armor and dont put anything in them. Hellbringers suffer from not having neither ferro or endo steel so it's loadout are a bit limited, but It's a good ECM mech none the less. Use the high mounted weapon slots on the torsos(torsi?) and A-variant head. Don't expose yourself for long and be always on the move with the pack.

Might be that the HBR just isn't suited for your play styles doe.

Here's a weird def not meta build that's fun for support. The narc is really high so you can "tag" enemy ecm mechs and remove their bubble. The other weapons are for close range work. You give ecm cover to your team and you rain hell on anyone who comes too close. It's really heat efficient too.

Edited by InsaneRotta, 21 December 2015 - 07:21 AM.

[Ano]

Stefka Kerensky, on 20 December 2015 - 11:47 PM, said:

and my personal crazy build : 2uac10/4ersl.

Hm. I might have to try that!

[Vlad Striker]

If you got killed often you choosed wrong tactics.
First - never try outgun assault mech 1:1. Second - keep distance 200-600m. Third - stand in second line near assault mechs and watch flanks. Never try solo ride.