24 replies to this topic

[Toxicresidue]

step on my laser range 40%, [redacted] I want a [redacted]
refund on the mechs that haven't arrived yet

[Karl Streiger]

[Omaha]

Wow dude seriously relax a bit its a testing phase, for science.

I'm more concerned about the lasers not doing full dmg if not locked on. Curious what the reduction is. During fight I commonly target another mech (one I'm not fighting) to see its injured areas, so I know where to get my next kill, after killing the current mech im fighting.

And wont this also kinda make changes to ecm null? I think ecm may get more op. Because you cant target. outside of 90m and 60% of maximum laser range is? Also does the reduction change if you running large, meds, or small or the percentage of maximum?

Reguardless looking forward to testing!

Edited by Omaha, 14 October 2015 - 03:29 AM.

[KuroNyra]

That's this kind of player that give a bad reputation to clanners. (Mainly clanners here. My unit is just swtiching from time to time in CW)

[Wolf Bronskiy]

Want to clarify some points:
In game we have "effective range" and "maximum range". For laser it is usually Effective Range = Maximum Range / 2;
So question is:
"Lasers will not do full damage when striking a ‘Mech that is not target-locked from a range greater than 60% of the Laser’s Maximum Range." - this statment's Maximum Range is real Maximum Range or just Effective Range?

We need more data how exactly it will work!

Edited by Wolf Bronskiy, 14 October 2015 - 06:07 AM.

[eCryptic]

Wow, we are gonna need spotters for our Laser-Snipers. IS that is. Clan Laser Snipers are more dead than ever if this stuff goes live.

[Wolf Bronskiy]

Ah, got some sence from another topics:
Example for Clan ER Large Laser
How it was:
Effective Range = 740
Maximum Range = 740*2 = 1480 (200% effective range)

How it will be:
Effective Range = 740
Maximum Range = 740 + 740*0.6 = 1184 (160% effective range)

Beyond Effective range we always had linear damage reduction with 0 dmg at max range.
Now (IMHO) we will have another more reduction begins at 60% of range - 1184*60%= 710 (96% of effective range). But what kind of reduction - it is unknown yet...

Edited by Wolf Bronskiy, 14 October 2015 - 06:36 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

It's the wrong approach, in my opinion. PGI is further diluting the difference between Clan and IS tech. Soon everyone will have the same XL engines, same double heat sinks, etc. It's boring.

Clan lasers should have more range, at the cost of heat. It makes things interesting. It forces different playstyles. It adds a layer of complexity to IS vs Clan match-ups.

[SkyHammyr]

Alistair Winter, on 14 October 2015 - 07:20 AM, said:

It's the wrong approach, in my opinion. PGI is further diluting the difference between Clan and IS tech. Soon everyone will have the same XL engines, same double heat sinks, etc. It's boring.

And, that's not a bad thing.
I want my IS investments to be just as valid and competitive as my Clan ones. I've spent equal shares of money on both factions and I want parity- I want them to be different, but I want them to be balanced.

We've already determined that 10v12 isn't doable and we know these ridiculous IS quirks aren't the answer.

This is a good change and it won't effect my TBRs and EBJs one bit.

[SkyHammyr]

Something else.

Quote

For the purposes of this test phase, all existing Quirks from the Live environment have been removed.

All those lousy duration quirks TBR took? Gone.
For now anyway.

Enjoy that!

[Tesunie]

Wolf Bronskiy, on 14 October 2015 - 06:06 AM, said:

Want to clarify some points:
In game we have "effective range" and "maximum range". For laser it is usually Effective Range = Maximum Range / 2;
So question is:
"Lasers will not do full damage when striking a ‘Mech that is not target-locked from a range greater than 60% of the Laser’s Maximum Range." - this statment's Maximum Range is real Maximum Range or just Effective Range?

We need more data how exactly it will work!

Actually, other way. Maximum range was always twice the effective range, not effective range being half the maximum range. (A minor difference, but it's what makes the difference with your math here.)

[Livewyr]

As I put in the other reactionary whine thread:

Quote

Don't get your knickers in a bunch. This is one of the better moves PGI has made, IMO.

Yes, IS ERLL will do damage farther than the cERLL.. so what?

IS 675 = 9 DMG
CL 675 = 11 DMG
IS 750 = 8 DMG
CL 740 = 11 DMG
IS 825 = 7 DMG
CL 820 = 9 DMG
IS 900 = 6 DMG
CL 900 = 7 DMG
IS 1025 = 5 DMG
CL 1020 = 4 DMG
IS 1100 = 4 DMG
CL 1100 = 2
IS 1175 = 3 DMG
IS 1250 = 2 DMG
IS 1325 = 1 DMG

So... At just over 1000 meters, IS ERLL gets the advantage in damage. (And remember, it's 1.25 burn time. No crazy damned quirks making them medium lasers..)

OH, and did I mention that Clan ERLL is smaller and lighter? ... This is as close to balanced (in theory) that they have been in the history of the game since the arrival of the clans.

[Novawrecker]

Wolf Bronskiy, on 14 October 2015 - 06:34 AM, said:

Ah, got some sence from another topics:
Example for Clan ER Large Laser
How it was:
Effective Range = 740
Maximum Range = 740*2 = 1480 (200% effective range)

How it will be:
Effective Range = 740
Maximum Range = 740 + 740*0.6 = 1184 (160% effective range)

What the source you're citing? This seems off for some reason.

[013]

Me too. If this is the way things are going. I also want my money back. And I will be 100% happy to uninstall this game. That is going down the wrong path. I play this game less and less. I once was dishing out money Over and Over every month, But With what is planed. Never again. CLAN IS BEING DESTROYED PGI Read some LORE!!!!!!!! Clan = Advanced weapons and Ranges. ECM was fine. but you want to break it. Look. this game is not for Noobs that cant learn, You are watering it down for the masses. All I see is GREED in PGI know. The Mega fans are not Pleased.

Edited by 013, 14 October 2015 - 02:50 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

Clan and IS lasers needed a balance.

[Tesunie]

013, on 14 October 2015 - 02:49 PM, said:

PGI Read some LORE!!!!!!!!

And, if you think ECM is fine, I might request the same action from yourself.

PS: This is not TT. IS don't have superior numbers per "match" over clans (their TT balance point). Clans aren't observing any form of an honor code (another point in lore). Things in this game just sometimes can not work the same as lore and as TT. It's great to reference to lore and such, but sometimes we will have to adjust for the sake of balance and creating a fun game.

[Lord Auriel]

whow, clanners whining about clan mechs being "destroyed" and "hit with the nerf bat" is just hilarious. You realize that there is a reason why almost ALL competitive teams pick clans over IS? You realize that clans have far better ranged laser snipers? Are you even awake when you're playing??

The whining is ridiculous. PGI has stated numerous times that IS and clan need to be balanced - gameplay first, lore second. And that is the right approach. If you want 100% lore, go back to playing the tabletop and leave MWO, please. I think it's time PGI gets some positive feedback. Not just noisy crybabies.

This new test setup is awesome IMHO, and I play both clans and IS. The new changes may need some tinkering but they are something NEW, something fresh.

[Benjamin Davion]

The BS about lasers not doing full damage if you don't have a target lock at a certain range is about the dumbest thing PGI has come out with yet. 'How do I into laws of physics...'

And if they think players at higher Tier levels give a good goddamn about target locks and 'information warfare', they've got a rude awakening coming. Competitive players will continue to identify the best meta because firepower is king, and those who don't do likewise will continue to be stomped. Just like they always have been.

[Tesunie]

Benjamin Davion, on 15 October 2015 - 02:04 AM, said:

'How do I into laws of physics...'

Best I can think of is targeting lenses not being able to focus correctly?
Then again, I think it's suppose to be for max range only and not total range. For max range, it would make more sense and be useful for limiting long range metas. As currently implemented (which may be imperfect, and might be a bug)... It's dumb to hinder a laser's effective ranges too...

I didn't mind the max range of clan weapons getting a nerf, as they would remain effective for longer ranges still, but share similar max ranges as IS weapons (while still weighting less, taking less crits and dealing typically more damage). The no lock penalty is effecting clan weapons more, which I feel is unfair. That's too much of a nerf, and seems like a double penalty to me.

[Lily from animove]

Livewyr, on 14 October 2015 - 10:05 AM, said:

As I put in the other reactionary whine thread:

Now add to thsi table that beamdurations are longer on clanlasers and that they are hotter, well, not balanced anymore, Welcome clanbuilds consisting of gauss and PPC's and maybe a AC here and there. This for real breakes just those clanemchs who have crappy fixed equipment and need to rely on lasers as the only proper builds.
it also ruins any mechs, even IS ones that are hardpoint starving and need to use lasers and are too squishy to not do hit and run tactics. That adjustment is VERY bad for balance. greet your new dakkawolf and gaussbuild metas on the clanside. Bury the laser depend mechs and you know what this change will look like.

Edited by Lily from animove, 15 October 2015 - 09:44 AM.