27 replies to this topic

[Pariah Devalis]

process, on 22 December 2015 - 11:24 AM, said:

Khobai's suggestion is an excellent place to start. I think if we wanted to further distinguish IS and Clan tech, we could establish some controlled relationships, e.g., damage is proportional to duration, heat is proportional to range.

Aside from size and weight constraints, duration is the most restrictive variable. 1 second is about as long as I'm happy with, and anything above 1.25 seconds I just won't use. I'm more than happy to scale back damage if we can get more reasonable durations.

Agreed, but then the slide down the rabbit hole begins. Reduce damage to reduce burn duration? OK. Now we need to reduce heat due to reduced damage. Not that I would be against it. While I've gotten used to the burn durations on Clan lasers, aside from C-ERLLas, if I am in the optimal range of an IS Laser Vomit with quirks, and I am in a Clan Laser Vomit, I know, between the heat efficiency and shorter burn durations IS lasers enjoy, that my odds of winning the trade against an equally skilled pilot isn't exactly great.

The problem is, we're in perhaps the most balanced state we've ever been between clan and IS tech. If lasers are what props this balance in place, I'd be very nervous about touching those.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 22 December 2015 - 03:34 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Agreed, but then the slide down the rabbit hole begins. Reduce damage to reduce burn duration? OK. Now we need to reduce heat due to reduced damage

The heat needs to be reduced anyway so mechs like the Nova can actually use all 12 energy hardpoints.

For example, the CERML should be changed to 6 damage and 5 heat (currently 7 damage and 6 heat).

If all clan lasers were changed to do less damage and less heat it would allow Clan mechs like the Nova to use all 12 of its energy hardpoints again. because whats the point of having mechs with 12 energy hardpoints if you cant use them all?

As a general rule: clan lasers should do +1 damage over IS lasers but have longer beam durations. And Clan lasers should have slightly more range than IS lasers (+33% or so) but also generate more heat. That would be pretty balanced I think.

Edited by Khobai, 22 December 2015 - 03:43 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Khobai, on 22 December 2015 - 03:34 PM, said:

heat needs to be reduced anyway so mechs like the nova with 12 energy hardpoints are viable.

Fun fact: Nova could never use the 12 lasers. Never in table top, never in MW2. Never in neverever land. It always had too many guns for its own good. :\

Edit: 'course, they could just give us the Huntsman and we'd have a proper 50 ton Clan omni for a change.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 22 December 2015 - 03:36 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Fun fact: Nova could never use the 12 lasers. Never in table top, never in MW2. Never in neverever land. It always had too many guns for its own good. :\

I dont care about other games. If it has 12 energy hardpoints in MWO it should be able to use 12 lasers.

Otherwise it shouldnt have 12 energy hardpoints in the first place. Simple as that.


Laser vomit is a problem, my solution helps solve that problem, while simultaneously fixing the Nova. Seems like a good solution.

Edited by Khobai, 22 December 2015 - 03:47 PM.

[cazidin]

Clearly, Khobai, the solution is hardpoint deflation.

[Pariah Devalis]

Khobai, on 22 December 2015 - 03:44 PM, said:

I dont care about other games. If it has 12 energy hardpoints in MWO it should be able to use 12 lasers.

Otherwise it shouldnt have 12 energy hardpoints in the first place. Simple as that.

Then mechs should not have hands, mechs shouldn't use legs but instead wheels, and we'd all be driving tanks instead. It's absolutely stupid that I need to be 4 stories tall when a tank can carry the same firepower but be much more meta friendly. Gawd.

/s

Saying because it has X it needs to be able to use them is not an acceptable argument. You have the option to use them. That is all. I also have the option to give a Thunderbolt an ungodly number of weapons and various weapon groups. I have 6 weapon groups to choose from, so that works, right? But it won't work, practically. But the option is there, so it should work, right? Right?

The game is based on Battletech. Tabletop should not dictate everything, but there are always going to be edge cases that won't work without breaking something else when translating one game into another. The Nova, an undersinked, unoptimized, 12 ERMIas slinging Clan 50 ton platform is unfortunately one of them.

By the way, you can totally use 12 lasers on a Nova. 6 ERMlas and 6 ERSLas, or 12 ERSLas. Fire them in packs of 6. But the 12 ERMLas? Consider 6 of them as backup weapons.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 22 December 2015 - 03:55 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

The Nova, an undersinked, unoptimized, 12 ERMIas slinging Clan 50 ton platform is unfortunately one of them.

The Nova Prime would actually work fine if the CERML was 6 damage, 5 heat.

12x5 = only 60 heat, well under its heat capacity.

The Nova doesnt work now because 12x6 = 72 heat which is higher than its max heat capacity.

[Pariah Devalis]

Replying below because I suspect it would be lost due to responses:

Now, if you are advocating for NOVA quirks to improve its usability and ability to capitalize on its laser mounts, that's another story. The mech needs all the help it can get. Changing all the Clan lasers to accommodate one mech, however? God no. Global changes to fix one outlier is bad, BAD juju. Heat efficiency quirks for the Nova, however? That fits the originally stated goal of applying mech specific changes to make under-performing chassis better.

Also, 60 heat isn't a hell a lot lower than 72. If 72 is too much, 60 is going to still redline your Nova, and you are still going to be spending a disproportionate amount of time cooling down before you can fire again. The up front damage is fantastic, sure, but it would have no follow through. It wouldn't realistically fix the mech because the Nova is so poorly optimized to begin with.