174 replies to this topic

[Grimm Peaper]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 December 2015 - 10:44 PM, said:

well, you are doing a bang up job trying to live up to that description so far.

btw, what you just did? THAT was name calling. Should I go cry about it now?

That was intentional, but I realize that was too hard for some to figure out. Maybe my answer would be that what I just did was call the posts dumb. Plausable deniability and all. You assumed i was calling you both dumb. Cry if you like, I'm just having a good laugh.

Gas Guzzler, on 22 December 2015 - 11:00 PM, said:

No, its demeaning/condescending to tell someone their thoughts are stupid. Name-calling is assigning a derogatory name to someone, such as dumb or dumber for example.

Why yes...that is sooo much better. /facepalm

Gas Guzzler, on 22 December 2015 - 11:00 PM, said:

Regarding your OP, what are you trying to prove here? That all those times you lost in a Clan mech was because IS mechs are OP?

Enough with the stupid flaming please, let's stick to the topic on hand. Since you need it spelled out for you, here it is. Clan is more balanced than many will admit and it finally shows in IIC mechs. Clan XL engines are giving people less surviveability than they imagined it would and without huge engines that take up alot of tonnage, clan mechs would move like slugs.

Personal attacks get old. Please be more mature than this.

Btw, for the record, my top 5 most piloted mechs per the mech xp stored up in them are:

Atlas
Raven
King Crab
Stalker
Warhawk

yes, the only clan mech I pilot on a regular basis is the warhawk.

Edited by Grimm Peaper, 22 December 2015 - 11:37 PM.

[STEF_]

MauttyKoray, on 22 December 2015 - 11:11 PM, said:

One of my favorite 'mechs is the Hunchback, and I'm no slouch of a pilot (for the most part). But Piloting the IIC is like playing hide and seek. It can't take a hit to save its life in comparison to the quirked HBK, and even though if you stock it with double the firepower its combination of lack in speed and durability make it a walking bullseye more so than any threat on the battlefield.

About the Hunchie-IIC, I see many pilots going close, indeed.
Instead, the hide and seek you refer, it is awesome and correct, thanks to its very high hardpoints and longer range.
Meanwhile too much pilots are piloting as it were an IS-HUnchie. Which is not.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 22 December 2015 - 11:30 PM.

[Hawk819]

In my opinion: IIC `Mechs couldn't have come at a better time. Their a good way to switch weapons, engines, and armor/structure. Unlike the OmniMechs with fixed equipment, etc.

[Gas Guzzler]

Grimm Peaper, on 22 December 2015 - 11:26 PM, said:

Enough with the stupid flaming please, let's stick to the topic on hand. Since you need it spelled out for you, here it is. Clan is more balanced than many will admit and it finally shows in IIC mechs. Clan XL engines are giving people less surviveability than they imagined it would and without huge engines that take up alot of tonnage, clan mechs would move like slugs.

Personal attacks get old. Please be more mature than this.

Oh please, your original post was full of personal attacks. Maybe a more rational thread wouldn't have invoked irrational responses?

And really, the only issues in my eyes are with the Highlander and the Orion (to a lesser degree). The Highlander gets screwed because its sluggish but doesn't have the direct fire hardpoints to make up for it, AND its ballistic arm is on the opposite side of the energy torso. So, that just makes it very easy to destroy. Executioner is better, in my opinion. I can't think of a time where I would take the HGN-IIC over it.

[Nerdboard]

Imo most of your opinions are simply not very valuable at the moment. The mechs are barely released. People still do not know how to play them or how to play against them. And that includes the top tier players. I had the same experience with my Ebon-Jaguars back when Wave-3 was released. For the first 4-6 weeks people all over the board (and of all skill tiers) considered them to be actually quite tanky. I could survive ridiculous amounts of of face-tanking in SoloQ, GroupQ and CW. People simply shot at all the wrong places.

Same effects with the loadouts. What I want to say is: It is too early to judge them. A majority of the playerbase has yet to realize that Clan ER medium lasers do not do damage on 800m anymore. Give it a few more weeks before you start whining (or crying for nerfs on the other side).

[Bishop Steiner]

Grimm Peaper, on 22 December 2015 - 11:26 PM, said:

That was intentional

-1/10 troll thread?

sure is doing his darndest to prove the intellectual failings of the OP aren't an aberration.

[Grimm Peaper]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 December 2015 - 11:31 PM, said:

Oh please, your original post was full of personal attacks. Maybe a more rational thread wouldn't have invoked irrational responses?

Focus Gas, Focus....

Gas Guzzler, on 22 December 2015 - 11:31 PM, said:

And really, the only issues in my eyes are with the Highlander and the Orion (to a lesser degree). The Highlander gets screwed because its sluggish but doesn't have the direct fire hardpoints to make up for it, AND its ballistic arm is on the opposite side of the energy torso. So, that just makes it very easy to destroy. Executioner is better, in my opinion. I can't think of a time where I would take the HGN-IIC over it.

psst... I agree with you. Do you feel dirty yet? I know I do.

The lighter the mech, the better off they are because you want a honkin engine in them anyway and the speed makes up for not having structure quirks. That said, people have complained of the HB and Jenner dying easily as well though, so /shrug

Bishop Steiner, on 22 December 2015 - 11:45 PM, said:

-1/10 troll thread?

sure is doing his darndest to prove the intellectual failings of the OP aren't an aberration.

Give it up Bish. Just leave it. And Merry Christmas, if you guys celebrate it down there in Mexico, it was Mexico right?

[Widowmaker1981]

I don't understand why the IICs feel so squishy - the HBK definitely seems to die faster than the Shadow Cat for example, and that doesnt exactly have any quirks making it tougher. Likewise for the Orion, seems to die so much faster than the T wolf, despite ostensibly the same amount of armour, and im not getting pure CT cored, the dmg is spread over all 3 torsi..

If i was a conspiracy theorist id even say it feels like the IICs come with a hidden "increase incoming dmg by 15%" quirk, but.. well who knows.

Least the HBK-IIC-A with 2xERPPC, 4 JJs and an *** ton of heatsinks is nice, because you can pretty much avoid getting shot at, lol.

[Ghogiel]

I would have bought orgins, but it wasn't p2w. I won't buy them until cbills if hunchy doesn't get heavy mech structure quirks and uber weapon quirks like my fav mediums.

[Russhuster]

@ Widowmaker
you state the IIC Mechs wouldnt have any quirks .. well thats not quite true

As all clan mechs they suffer from the hidden negative quirks and penaltys all clan mechs have to cope with
as there are
the -20% agility Nerf (via the skilltree)
the heat Nerf by stomping the Clan double heat sink to single heatsink Capacity ( Clan Double cap. 1.1 needing 2 spaces IS single cap 1.0 needing 1 space with same weight)
the heat Penalty Nerf for all Clan mechs
the Ghostheat penaltys what IS doesnt has at all in that dimension
the longer burntime and larger Salvos and resulting high jamchance
and last but not least the Clan UAC bug and the Clan PPC Bug what are not nerfs per se but known bugs what are not fixed for years now, so as a Clan player you have to cope with these

considering this the IIC s are not having quirks of positive kind but a quite nasty pack of Nerfs already

and how many Heatsinks with IS single heatsink capacity do you need or can you put into a Hunchback IIC to cope with the higher heat of the bugy Clan PPCs? that tend to fire through the target inflicting absolutely NO damage but the heat you get delivered for sure

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

MauttyKoray, on 22 December 2015 - 11:11 PM, said:

One of my favorite 'mechs is the Hunchback, and I'm no slouch of a pilot (for the most part). But Piloting the IIC is like playing hide and seek. It can't take a hit to save its life in comparison to the quirked HBK, and even though if you stock it with double the firepower its combination of lack in speed and durability make it a walking bullseye more so than any threat on the battlefield.

I like the lrm 80 one XD

[Widowmaker1981]

Russhuster, on 23 December 2015 - 01:27 AM, said:

@ Widowmaker
you state the IIC Mechs wouldnt have any quirks .. well thats not quite true

As all clan mechs they suffer from the hidden negative quirks and penaltys all clan mechs have to cope with
as there are
the -20% agility Nerf (via the skilltree)
the heat Nerf by stomping the Clan double heat sink to single heatsink Capacity ( Clan Double cap. 1.1 needing 2 spaces IS single cap 1.0 needing 1 space with same weight)
the heat Penalty Nerf for all Clan mechs
the Ghostheat penaltys what IS doesnt has at all in that dimension
the longer burntime and larger Salvos and resulting high jamchance
and last but not least the Clan UAC bug and the Clan PPC Bug what are not nerfs per se but known bugs what are not fixed for years now, so as a Clan player you have to cope with these

considering this the IIC s are not having quirks of positive kind but a quite nasty pack of Nerfs already

and how many Heatsinks with IS single heatsink capacity do you need or can you put into a Hunchback IIC to cope with the higher heat of the bugy Clan PPCs? that tend to fire through the target inflicting absolutely NO damage but the heat you get delivered for sure

Yeah being incredibly biased doesnt help your cause, btw (and im on your side with the IICs)

skill tree nerfs affect IS and Clan equally

Heat sinks are actually balanced now - C-DHS gives 1.1 cap and 1.5 dissipation for 1 ton / 2 slots. IS gives 1.5 cap and 1.5 dissipation for 1 ton 3 slots - IS get more capacity per tonnage, but clans can fit more due to space and therefore get more total dissipation (albeit for more tonnage)

What heat penalty nerf for all clan mechs? You mean ghost heat levels on the Clan lasers?.. Or you mean crap dmg/heat on clan lasers? Nothing has changed there for some time.

It doesnt help your cause to mention all the cons and none of the pros - Clan get half size Endo, half size ferro that also gives 50% more tonnage back than IS, XLs that don't die from losing 1 ST, 50% lighter half size BAP/ECM. Their internals are just.. enormously better, and they pay for that with slightly worse weapons (when taking quirks into account, much worse) and no durability quirks.

[Mcgral18]

Russhuster, on 23 December 2015 - 01:27 AM, said:

the heat Nerf by stomping the Clan double heat sink to single heatsink Capacity ( Clan Double cap. 1.1 needing 2 spaces IS single cap 1.0 needing 1 space with same weight)

I love it when people say this.

How many heatsinks does your mech bring? My Hunch has either 10 or 11.

You know how serious this nerf is on my build? Absolutely...not.
Not a point difference.
Or, you know, on the 11 DHS build, ~0.4 heat cap reduction, going from 61.68 Heat down to 61.32

OH MY GOD, THEY NERFED ME!11!11!!


Now, perhaps for a 20DHS mech that has more impact. After all, they lose 0.4*10! A whole 0.4*10*1.2 heat!
They go from a 76.8 cap down to 73.2 heat cap.
Oh noes, 3.6 heat capacity...less than 4 points of heat. Less than an ERML's worth of heat off the capacity, but it gains minimal dissipation.



I repeat, I LOVE when people say ridiculous things, without actually thinking about the impact.

[Gas Guzzler]

Widowmaker1981, on 23 December 2015 - 01:39 AM, said:

Heat sinks are actually balanced now - C-DHS gives 1.1 cap and 1.5 dissipation for 1 ton / 2 slots. IS gives 1.5 cap and 1.5 dissipation for 1 ton 3 slots - IS get more capacity per tonnage, but clans can fit more due to space and therefore get more total dissipation (albeit for more tonnage)

Minor correction, IS DHS still dissipate 1.4 afaik. Only Clans got the dissipation buff.

[Ghogiel]

Mcgral18, on 23 December 2015 - 01:46 AM, said:

I love it when people say this.

How many heatsinks does your mech bring? My Hunch has either 10 or 11.

You know how serious this nerf is on my build? Absolutely...not.
Not a point difference.
Or, you know, on the 11 DHS build, ~0.4 heat cap reduction, going from 61.68 Heat down to 61.32

OH MY GOD, THEY NERFED ME!11!11!!


Now, perhaps for a 20DHS mech that has more impact. After all, they lose 0.4*10! A whole 0.4*10*1.2 heat!
They go from a 76.8 cap down to 73.2 heat cap.
Oh noes, 3.6 heat capacity...less than 4 points of heat. Less than an ERML's worth of heat off the capacity, but it gains minimal dissipation.



I repeat, I LOVE when people say ridiculous things, without actually thinking about the impact.

Yeah it's pretty sad. Blowing it up out of proportion is almost as sad as picking one single item from an entire list of connected items.

[Russhuster]

@Widowmaker
while your numbers are mostly correct, the affection of the overall picture is lacking
Skill Tree Nerfs affect IS and Clan equally?
I tend to disagree
Because while most or at least many IS mechs get Agility Buffs with the skilltree Nerfs
example: Highlander got the same -20%agilty Nerf via Skilltree but now has +55% agility Buff in the quirklist
compared to a Direwhale who has got just the -20% that makes at the end of the day a +35% Buff for the IS mech
with just that one buff there is an additional +35% turn rate quirk as well but we wont speak of that it would rise the
difference to70% and that wont be quite true neither
but i think i could visualize the problem
And the Highlander isnt known as the Quirkbucket number one in the IS, there are way worse

the general heat Nerf that Clan is hotter/less heat efficient in general while the heat IS the main break in puting out damage
most IS mechs get high numbered Quirks and buffs in that section,.. while almost all Clan Mechs have red numbers there
As well as the Ghost heat what was a bad joke bevore as it´s affecting Clan in more brutal numbers than IS what almost feels no ghostheat at all, i do play mechs both sides and can prove that thesis if yo wish
I see the heat problem as a general one PGI did ocerdo thenerfbat there enormously as the didnt consider teh culmulative effects of moreHeat by weapon and less heat reducing ability by heatsinks combined with a fierce Ghost heat penalty AND longer burntimes and bugy weapons

De facto you can put out one maybe 2 salvos bevore the heat forces you to seaze fire
while the IS can wubb you with salvos of 4 or even 5 heavy pulse lasers five to six times in a row without even knowing that problem because of no or almost no ghost heat plus your heat is decreased slower


to the positive aspects,..
Clan XL engine is the ONLY positive aspect as you know very well
Clantech is lighter,and you get half size endo true but you get also a ridiculous puny payload from the mech chassis so even with smaller or lighter components you get less equipent inside. theyr internals are not that much better
ECM is not an option everywhere so it doesnt count really

@McGra

in looking just at the blank numbers the nerf does not look that bad but when you consider the Clan heat penaltys in summa you may possibly overthink your answer
And Yes an Assault mech with more DHS suffers way more from that

in your last sentence i DO actually find congruence in our thoughts
I too am amused each time when people say ridiculous things, without actually thinking about the impact.

[Xoco]

I'm one of those guys who actually much prefer the IIC to their IS counterparts, I guess. I perform much better in my JennerIIC than my IS Jenner, sans the bug where you get caught on thin air, and hitreg gets nasty when you're carrying 5 or 6xSRM6 instead of, you know, 2 or 3x SRM4s.

Maybe it is much less obvious in Lights, because you die if anything looks at you no matter if you're in the IS or IIC version.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

I want a Urbie IIC

AKA


http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Imp

[Russhuster]

iam with you in that
Light mechs ad eyp the relatively fast jenner does not feel the agility nerf that much and as mostly run rocket mech at least i see most of the JennyIIC with that build the heat ia not that of the prob
but how does it feel in the hunchie or the orion?

And as the lights in MWO do not scout as there is no need for scouting what imho is a very pity fact
but are the number one assaultmech harrasser, every heavy or assault pilot will shot at these lights
first

Edited by Russhuster, 23 December 2015 - 03:25 AM.

[Michal R]

Xoco you not only one who like IIC.
They are awesome.
They don't need quirks, they have clan weapons, clan XL.
They have spead and fire power.
In HBK-IIC-A you walk/fly and kill every one