34 replies to this topic

[eSeifer]

Get rid of dropships....


... and add a forfeit button.


I expect my check in the mail PGI.

[Kjudoon]

Sorry, I got my patent paperwork on the forefeit button in almost 18 months ago. People rageflipped the table.

Besides, I'm still waiting for my royalties for the following names:

The PuG Zapper
Mount Derp
Terra Derpa

Edited by Kjudoon, 24 December 2015 - 12:54 PM.

[Aresye]

Philadelphia Collins, on 24 December 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

Defending is different, to be fair in counter attack defense if you lose objective and kill lead then you have lost and using the dropships to secure victory (while pretty scummy to be sure) is a legit play.

Let's hypothesize that tomorrow a random patch comes out to solve spawn camping once and for all. Instead of having choke points and/or requiring jump jets to get into the spawn area, PGI decides to rework the map geometry so that the spawn points are literally a sheer cliff, so no mech with or without jump jets can reach the opposing team's spawn. Everything else about the mode is the same.

Counter-attack game. The team that's holding territory wins the first wave 12-9. The next wave of attackers kill the remaining 3 defenders and they also take down Omega. Defend team sees it's tied, so they all remain in their impossible to reach spawn for the remainder of the game, and there isn't anything the attackers can do. Game ends, defending side wins.

Would you consider that a legit play as well?

The simple fact of the matter is the maps were reworked, and dropships got buffed, in order to prevent spawn camping. PGI deliberately made these areas extremely difficult to attack for that very reason.

Some areas (like on Vitric Forge) are one-way only. They exist for the sole purpose of protecting mechs that are dropping, and were not designed with the intention to return, otherwise they would not have made them near impossible to access without jump jets. I think we can assume (with a fair degree of certainty), that PGI did not intend these areas (or dropships) to be utilized in an offensive manner to gain a significant advantage over the other team in certain game modes.

I personally feel that this tactic is not at all consistent with PGI's vision for Community Warfare. I think it was an unintended consequence, players are taking advantage of it, and it would therefore be considered exploitative in nature.

Edited by Aresye Kerensky, 24 December 2015 - 06:47 PM.

[SkippyT72]

Easiest solution, a timer of say 2/3 minutes to get clear of the dropships firing area (700 -1000 Meters) of spawn, if you don't clear the DZ, you self destruct and face the same penalty as folks that disco and don't come back for non participation. That way the Drops ships can still keep folks from coming all the way into spawn, but also folks can't just sit and hide under the dropships that can't be removed like any other turrent in the game. To be honest giving a team 2/3 mins to move out of the DZ is almost too much but some assaults are kind of slow.

[Vxheous]

Willard Phule, on 24 December 2015 - 05:07 AM, said:

The whole "competing for planets" thing has simply become a quicker, easier way for new players to grind cbills. They can choose 4 trial mechs, rush in and get killed, disconnect and then pick another 4 trial mechs. Rinse, lather repeat as necessary.

I am almost 99% certain that you are account locked into CW matches (and not mech locked like public matches). Meaning you cannot start anoyger CW match while you have any mechs currently still in match. I believe I tried this once (I have 4 non-overlapping dropdecks) and it would not let me queue up again until my match was done, even though all 4 of my mechs were already dead ( was trying to sneak one more game in before ceasefire)

[old man odin]

Jherek C, on 24 December 2015 - 12:36 PM, said:

Then counter attack defenders would just hide there until time is up because the attackers need Omega and kill lead.

All the defense spawns have this already though. It's just attacker spawns on Boreal, Emerald Taiga, Sulfurous and Grim Portico that don't.

[Kuritaclan]

I like dropships,.... untill they do what does MVP Dropship gunners do in the clip to me @ around Minute 5:30
https://youtu.be/CjgLa-0qgWQ?t=5m30s

Edited by Kuritaclan, 25 December 2015 - 02:28 AM.

[maniacos]

Aresye Kerensky, on 24 December 2015 - 06:45 PM, said:

I personally feel that this tactic is not at all consistent with PGI's vision for Community Warfare. I think it was an unintended consequence, players are taking advantage of it, and it would therefore be considered exploitative in nature.

Of course are people doing this. It's a tactical move like retreating into the base where you get aid from precise turrets. Just that the turrets are fair game since they can be targeted and destroyed.

Odins Steed, on 25 December 2015 - 12:47 AM, said:

All the defense spawns have this already though. It's just attacker spawns on Boreal, Emerald Taiga, Sulfurous and Grim Portico that don't.

What do they have? The problem with attackers on counter attack is that they can get kill lead and retreat into DS zone to win the game after they destroyed Omega. If then ships kill more defenders who are advantaging into attackers zone, attackers can win the match much easier, which gives them advantages in counter attack matches.

[Gryphorim]

Given how LongTom was described in the townhall* (bombarding the highest concentration of mechs every 60 seconds), I'd say that would deal with spawncamping just fine.

[Tom Sawyer]

Option A) Have one or more special turrets in the drop zones. They like the drop ships will be indestructible and will fire on ANY mech after a timer of 2 minutes that remains in the drop zone


Option If a mech remains in the drop zone for longer than 2 minutes then the a special dropship comes in and removes that mech which is then counted as a suicide.

[RavWielki]

Aresye Kerensky, on 24 December 2015 - 12:56 AM, said:

I'll make this thread short and straight to the point:

The introduction of more powerful weaponry, better accuracy, and longer lingering times has done NOTHING to stop a more powerful team from overtaking a less powerful one by camping near their spawn points.

It has however, allowed teams the option of having extremely powerful, indestructible turrets to hide behind when a game is close.

Had a game earlier in which my team of pugs was up against a 10man. We were on counter attack. We successfully destroyed 12 of them and took out Omega, however they tied the game 12-12 when their 2nd wave cleaned up our first.

They then retreated to the far back of their dropzone and proceeded to stay there for the foreseeable future. Eventually we organized a push into their DZ to take out all of their hurt mechs, but the dropships came pretty much immediately, and continued to come...and continued to come. We'd get the lead in the attrition and try to pull out, but nope: Dropship has killed ____. All this time the enemy team continuously getting a supply of perfectly fresh mechs.

I'm sorry, but that is complete and utter BS.

I wouldn't mind if there was some way to disable and/or take out the turrets on the dropships, but there isn't. They are an indestructible element that basically adds the power of an entire lance of ERLL snipers with perfect accuracy.

On the other hand, it's just as stupid for an attacking team to take out Omega, gain the kill advantage, and pull back to the dropships. There's scumbagging on both sides.

My recommendation? Either remove the dropship weapons entirely from the counter-attack/hold territory game mode, or make the weapons/accuracy less punishing.

I totally agree with that, counterattack is often more difficult than normal attack. Camping at the DropsipZone schould be not allowed, or punished.

[Aiden Skye]

As defenders on counter attack you can never leave the dropzone and it will make life extremely difficult for the attacking team. On maps like hellebore where the defensive team has a massive terrain advantage at the drop zone it would be extremely easy to just sit there and wait for the enemy team to try to take the kill advantage as they bottleneck up those narrow paths and have to peek pretty much single file.

Surprised ive never seen this level of cheese right out of the gate!

Edited by W A R K H A N, 25 December 2015 - 09:03 AM.

[GI Journalist]

We see the strategy of retreating to the drop zone a lot in counter attack. Once Omega is out of the picture, whichever team is up on kills, retreats in order to have a massive firepower advantage.

I think PGI would have an easier time adjusting the weaponry on the DropShips, rather than redoing all them maps where this is possible. Another possibility would be to make the destruction of Omega the end condition for the game mode, but give it a new set of defenses. (Turrets, tanks, dug into the drop zone, et cetra.)

[Tarogato]

Philadelphia Collins, on 24 December 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

Theoretically some day we will care more about the win on the match than the amount of c-bills we can get out of it. Hope that day comes soon.

That day will come when PGI quadruples the reward for completing the gamemode objectives. I would welcome it, especially for pug queue. But PGI will never do that.

[Aresye]

W A R K H A N, on 25 December 2015 - 06:31 AM, said:

As defenders on counter attack you can never leave the dropzone and it will make life extremely difficult for the attacking team. On maps like hellebore where the defensive team has a massive terrain advantage at the drop zone it would be extremely easy to just sit there and wait for the enemy team to try to take the kill advantage as they bottleneck up those narrow paths and have to peek pretty much single file.

Surprised ive never seen this level of cheese right out of the gate!

I've seen teams that have done this on Hellebore before. The attacking team comes in, takes out Omega, and wonders where the defend team is, only to find out they're holed up in the dropzone, having never moved since they got dropped off.