37 replies to this topic

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Updated for Dec 2015

tl;dr version: There's no reason to use an IS ALRM20 in most circumstances, unless a chassis has specific LRM20 quirks. Due to missile spread, much of the launcher's damage is wasted on unimportant components or miss the target completely.

Video demo including testing method:

Edited by BlackhawkSC, 15 December 2015 - 12:01 AM.

[T0rmented]

great job dude, now you just need to make a video showing why an LRM 15 + 5 is useless when compared to an ac/5 with 1 ton of ammo (equivilent tonnage)

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T0rmented, on 04 October 2015 - 01:21 AM, said:

great job dude, now you just need to make a video showing why an LRM 15 + 5 is useless when compared to an ac/5 with 1 ton of ammo (equivilent tonnage)

That would be a nice addition, but of course beyond the scope of the video.

[Chados]

I think that depends on the chassis too. An AC5 needs ballistic hardpoints. That means that the only Catapult that qualifies is the K2. On the other hand, three of the five Catapults have multiple missile hardpoints. You might think this makes the Catapult worthless, but in my world the A1C is fun to play. It doesn't supplant my Victors (which can carry missiles,but I prefer ballistics and lasers) or Urbies (for the lulz and always with the biggest AC I can get) or the Jester or K2 Catapults (for when you just need to bring the energy). But sometimes...it's fun to LRM on those nights in the group queue or even in CW (heresy! Burn the heretic!) when the derp is off the chain and you need to be able to shoot OVER your teamies who are INSISTING on jumping in front of your guns or preventing you from getting to cover by blocking your escape from a death funnel. #lolpugs #puglandia

LRMs. Yes, they too can be fun.

Edited by Chados, 04 October 2015 - 04:19 AM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

^^^ Agreed. They have their place in the game, and indirect fire support is every bit as important to MW:O as it is in real life combat. Consider your LRM boat to be your company's mortar section, and go from there. Surprisingly, MW:O isn't incredibly different in that way.

I think that Catalina Steiner hit on this in her LRM boat guide, also in this forum. You get your tightest grouping with the ALRM-5, and your worst with the LRM-20. Given a limit by hard points, you're best to work with an ALRM-15, and given a greater number of hard points, you might be better off with an LRM-5. ALRM-10 is the compromise. Agreed with OP, that even with Artemis the LRM-20 is kinda wasteful unless you have quirks specific to that size LRM launcher.

But, all else being equal, you're probably significantly better off using the -5 and -15 combo, than using the -20. Glad to have one more agreeing opinion on board.

#LurmOn

[Vetal]

It also depends whether mech is moving or standing.seems like lrm20 is more preferrable for moving targets.

[Zookeeper Dan]

Whenever I put LRM's in a mech I usually fill all the hard points with LRM5's.

Then I'll follow the upgrade scheme:

LRM5 -> LRM10 -> LRM15 -> ALRM15

I don't see a reason to go bigger than ALRM15.

You didn't run the test, but I'd probably go with 2 LRM10's over 1 LRM5 and 1 LRM15. It would be interesting to see if that's really a good choice.

Edited by Danth Reduviid, 05 October 2015 - 06:50 AM.

[Paladin00]

I'm using x4 lrm15's on my Mauler.... over 1000 damage and 6 kills on last game :-)

[Tesunie]

LRM20s are not in a good place as far as the LRM launchers are concerned.

The LRM20 is far more of a circumstances weapon system. I have a few mechs that use a single LRM20 launcher, but not many. Typically because I want to use the other missile slots for SRMs (and you can call me crazy if you wish). It works surprisingly well on those designs, at least the way I use them.

One example of this would be my Griffin 3M. It's worked surprisingly well, considering what some people have said about it. Could it boat LRMs more effectively in another configuration? Probably. But, when it needs to stay away due to enemy strengths, it can. If it needs to close the gap (for the same reason) it's able to there as well.


For the most part though, smaller LRM launchers are more efficient. In that we agree. There are very few reasons to actually take an LRM20 launcher, which is kinda sad in a way...

[_____]

Vetal, on 04 October 2015 - 10:24 PM, said:

It also depends whether mech is moving or standing.seems like lrm20 is more preferrable for moving targets.

If LRM20 is already missing on a large stationary target, it'll do even worse with a moving target. It'd be interesting to prove this in a private lobby.

[Son of the Flood]

Thanks BlackhawkSC, this is good stuff!

Yay Science!

[Chados]

Catapult C4 has LRM20 quirk-age, and is one my highest-damage 'mechs-the only one better is one of my Victors. It packs 2xALRM20 and is deadly at all ranges, plus it has 2xSSRM2 and 2xSL for close in work.

That said, I like the ALRM15 best by far. Good area saturation and staying power if you're bringing 1080 rounds. Plus, the A1C Cat kitted out like that can run 2xASRM4 + 2xSSRM2, with 1-ton ammo each...a credible secondary armament that leaves room for a Beagle Active Probe. Many times after I run out of LRM rounds I batten down the hatches and storm in for some brawling. I took down a Mad Cat in River City a few nights ago like that

[Karl Streiger]

Well somehow a pity that they didn't fixed the spread.... in the weapon.xml the spread for all missile racks rise with the number of missiles, its the same for the Short Range Rockets.

Something that seems logical on the first glance but is complete wrong on the second.
All missile racks need the same spread.

That means when you have 3 missile hps and 3t left -you should mount the SRM6 - not the triple 2 - but the triple 2 is the better option - less spread faster reload.

So keep the reload but the missiles should hit a much wider area even when it means your SRM2 volley misses completely.

(an while you are thinking - the guy is mad we are talking about LRMs) no its all the same.

No its not - the best way to counter LRMs - stay in LOS and turn your torso 90° to your enemy - those large missile volleys will miss you. Keep CT towards the enemy more missiles will hit, move in cover "breaking" LOS more missiles will hit - its a question of the angle too.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 07 October 2015 - 01:00 AM.

[Tesunie]

Karl Streiger, on 07 October 2015 - 12:58 AM, said:

Something that seems logical on the first glance but is complete wrong on the second.
All missile racks need the same spread.

This would place larger launchers in a better place, while keeping the smaller ones with a role still.

I've actually theorized that the LRMs should all spread about as much as an LRM10 (maybe a little more). This means an LRM 20 would land more missiles (but it does weight a lot and reloads slower), and an LRM5 would land fewer missiles, but could shoot more often and is much lighter.

Probably make all launchers spread as much as an LRM15 without Artemis (and for indirect fire) and as much as an LRM10 with Artemis (or something along these lines).


I do wonder how this would affect LRMs in the game. Might make for a good use of the Test Server. (And of course, SRMs could get a similar treatment...)

[Moira]

Hello.

Yesterday/night I was running around and left little bored so I took my old Cat-A1 out with and ran with it, but this time 3xLRM5 and 2x LRM15. Idea was simple just poke with chain fired LRM5 until you are sure that those 15's will hit and was generally supprised on the first game on FCity... not that 3 kills 8 assists and some 750ish damage wasnt enough, but I topped the damage meter... That indeed supprised me, since I havent done that in LRM boat in ages.

So I took other my "Stalker-Boatload" with similar idea just more ammo, 3x ML's and tag...and wasnt top damage dealer, but when that heinous slug can toss 700+ damage im always happy "camper".

So somehow either I have learned to be more effective or LRM15's are doing alot better than they used to.

EDIT: today 19.10 results:

Ok I tested several games with 6x LRM5 with Artemis and W/O and couldnt top off 510 damage even I had really good games and fired all my missiles... like 10 games and got worried. So back to No Artemis 2x LRM15 and 2-3 LRM5's and voila in the first game popped 550 damage limit even it wasnt perfect game for LRM-Boat.. so there is something odd going on....

Edited by Moira, 19 October 2015 - 06:14 AM.

[LT. HARDCASE]

Anyone ever tweet this to Russ?

[Jman5]

Yeah the LRM 20 needs something to bring it on par with the other missiles. The problem is PGI progressively increased spread and cooldown as they went up in missile size. They need to either adjust one of those values, or give it some unique benefit to offset the other issues.

[Moira]

Humdidum back at it.

I have gotten my hands on the three Maddogs with missile slot and ran em all to near extra module slot - few are missing like 4k from that slot. Yeah I cant imagine how things turned this way ... Im using either 3-4 LRM10's or 2x LRM20's and 3 MPL's and TAG. The LRM20 version even at bad game make roughly 2-2.5 more damage than LRM10 one, yeah thats funny.

Even with LRM10 CoolDown module and mechs own -10% is still loosing to that LRM20 version that has no CD reduction at all....

Have a Fun weekend =) I definedly will while popping missiles like an true idiot =)

[Curccu]

Just out of curiosity have you tested
ALRM 5 vs 10 vs 15 vs 20 or combinations of smaller launcers like 2-3xALRM5 vs LRM10 or 15 and so on.
I know smaller you go heat is getting worse per damage but is it just on paper or in real combat also (meaning if you shoot lrm20 you miss a lot of missiles vs lrm5 you don't miss much if any.)

Edited by Curccu, 27 November 2015 - 04:06 AM.

[Moira]

I have kicked artemis away some time ago from all my mech's it grants more kill power, but does alot less in damage.

I have ran setups from 6x LRM5, 6x LRM10, 4x LRM15 and 2x LRM20 and I have used various variations like 4x LRM5 + 2x LRM15 and so on.

After Dec 1 2015 patch... Big launchers took reload speed nerf. Specially Clan ones Clan LRM20 loads now in 6.5s from old 5secs so thats effectively 25% nerf... Im back old draw board and doing testing.. One thing noted that if mech has missile cooldown Quirks NOW they are really usefull.

Reporting back in day or two with results, or not Back at it fast I could.

* If you can holster 6 missile slots then take 6x LRM5 (artemis or not) preferred in mech that has Missile CoolDown Perk and then slap LRM5 cooldown module on top and ALOT of ammo. I ran my 2200 missiles in single match on Tourmaline on MadDog Prime (swapped torsos) in a game where I disconnected once. Haaaarumpthh! Bing 780p damage and 3? kills I think. or this can happen =P


* 4 Missile slots in under testing as I write this.... and

- Clan Mechs with 4x LRM20 is totally out and I mean totally.

- 4x LRM10 seems to perfom a ok, but when you need something to keep em Lights away you need to think when you fire your missiles. And you just cant just Vomit em like 6x LRM5 model. You do need either mech with missile cooldown perk or LRM10 cooldown module.

- 4x LRM15 needs CD perk and CD module to get em going fast enough.

- Mixing like 2x LRM5 and 2x LRM10 with mech missile CD perk seems to give more "volume" and you should bind those 2x LRM5's into different key so you can "prod" with em w/o greater loss of ammo.

* 3 or less missile slots (ack going to hate myself) because this starts to sound like brawling and im not good at it....

Edited by Moira, 01 December 2015 - 04:25 PM.