24 replies to this topic

[JC Daxion]

honestly... it works


the only prob is it is all about the PUG


we need 3 PSR... a pug, and a group..


making it harder to move up... i dunno... i only pug.. and i swear once you get past bottom of the 3.... it is so hard to move up...


being good from 5 to 4, super easy..... 4 to 3 .... not as much.... ill let ya know when i hit it

[Illuzian Pryde]

Not really for this idea. I think to fix PSR it needs to factor in more and weight each individual factor separately.

For example:
NARCs, TAGs, Damage Dealt, Average Accuracy, Killing Blows, Spotting, Assists, Damage dealt to shared target, or even voice comms used etc should all be weighted by something.

In addition there should be conditions like: If your team is quickly wiped, the round was short or it is a lopsided victory, lower the PSR hit. Victory or loss should not directly represent your contribution to the match at all, if you did a lot of spotting, dealt a lot of damage and were accurate you should still see a PSR increase.

At present, you are still very much at the mercy of your team and team composition. You might be in a game where the other team simply rolls through yours, or you might get caught out at the head of an enemy push and get killed quickly... while if this happens a lot you are definitely doing something wrong but it is often bad luck.

PSR as it is, guages a degree of skill but is still very much bound to team performance as was the old elo system. It really needs to actually reflect player skill and not some match score + win/loss system... in my opinion anyway.

[5LeafClover]

Match score is not perfect, but includes a portion for winning. Simply rank all 24 players by match score, top 6 advance, bottom 6 fall back. This way we can keep everyone on a seeded list of percentiles, rather than all advancing to t1 over time.

[adamts01]

5LeafClover, on 24 December 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

. Simply rank all 24 players by match score, top 6 advance, bottom 6 fall back.

No!
I see too many people cowering in the back, just t unleash their full health once their team has died softening everyone up. Many times they get the only few kills on the team, and the critical damage the get credit for stacks to the roof fact is, their inability to help early game, caused the loss. A high match score doesn't mean jack.

I have a 1.93 W:L over thousands of drops. It's not from my team carrying me, it's me dang what's needed to win many times that's being the one to suicide to stall their vase cap. It's not about match scores, it's about winning. After 3 years, thousands of drops and my current W/L, I'm the only common factor.

PSR does need to be harder to move up, there are too many clueless players I drop with.

[Almond Brown]

adamts01, on 24 December 2015 - 06:40 AM, said:

No!
stuff
PSR does need to be harder to move up, there are too many clueless players I drop with.

Maybe if you "whine" hard enough PGI about it, they will rid the game of those "clueless" players for you. You yourself said that "whining to PGI" does in fact work right?

[Nightmare1]

I think PSR is fine as-is. Both my Pug and Group matches are significantly better than when we had elo; I almost never see those 12-1 or 12-0 ROFLStomps any more.

[Simbacca]

PSR is a problematic system (I have posted about it many times)

I swear PSR has changed since STEAM launch. Even doing only 123 damage, 6 assists on a win somehow my PSR is going up (match score was 135 - lowest on the team). In the past it would just stay neutral...

[Zoid]

The only issue I really see with PSR is that it shouldn't lower your PSR if you were the highest score on a terribad team. Sometimes your entire team dies in 2 minutes and there is literally nothing you can do about it.

Other than that I think it works pretty well. It goes up on a win every time which is good since sometimes not getting a high score is what helped the team win. I get a kick out of driving my Atlas now and just tanking the entire enemy team for a minute or so, assuming my team isn't ******** and actually shoots back while I'm taking fire. I don't get a very high score for doing this but it would be silly to say I didn't contribute to the win.

[Simbacca]

Zoid, on 24 December 2015 - 06:46 PM, said:

The only issue I really see with PSR is that it shouldn't lower your PSR if you were the highest score on a terribad team. Sometimes your entire team dies in 2 minutes and there is literally nothing you can do about it.

Other than that I think it works pretty well. It goes up on a win every time which is good since sometimes not getting a high score is what helped the team win. I get a kick out of driving my Atlas now and just tanking the entire enemy team for a minute or so, assuming my team isn't ******** and actually shoots back while I'm taking fire. I don't get a very high score for doing this but it would be silly to say I didn't contribute to the win.

Problem of always going up on a win, is that players like myself are carried upwards when one's own skill did not get them there.

[adamts01]

Almond Brown, on 24 December 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

Maybe if you "whine" hard enough PGI about it, they will rid the game of those "clueless" players for you. You yourself said that "whining to PGI" does in fact work right?

By "rid the game," if you mean getting them out of "my game," then yes, that would be awesome, and everyone will keep hearing from me until that happens.

If I'm at the absolute top of the food chain, I shouldn't have to deal with underhive teammates and opponents LRMing mountains all match. I never once said kick them out though. They should be matched up with fellow mountain-LRMers. I honestly don't see why that doesn't make everyone happy.... Equally skilled players in a match. Seriously, what's so bad about that?

[adamts01]

Zoid, on 24 December 2015 - 06:46 PM, said:

The only issue I really see with PSR is that it shouldn't lower your PSR if you were the highest score on a terribad team. Sometimes your entire team dies in 2 minutes and there is literally nothing you can do about it.

Problem: Dakka wolf shuts down beginning of a match. Once it's team is dead, it powers up, kills 3 weak targets before going down itself. With all the crit damage it easily leads the team on damage and kills, match is lost, mostly due to punk *** dire pilot. I see this enough with the system we have. If losing didn't matter ad much, this would be absolutely pandemic. As much so as LRM boats during tournament weekends.

[meteorol]

It works great as EXP bar.

[5LeafClover]

meteorol, on 25 December 2015 - 04:00 AM, said:

It works great as EXP bar.

It certainly does. But given we already have an exp counter for the pilot and for every single mech we own. Im not sure there's a need for another.

A good player ranking system is what is currently missing.

Current system works a bit, much better than elo, if only for transparency, but is ultimately flawed.

[5LeafClover]

adamts01, on 24 December 2015 - 06:40 AM, said:

No!
I see too many people cowering in the back, just t unleash their full health once their team has died softening everyone up. Many times they get the only few kills on the team, and the critical damage the get credit for stacks to the roof fact is, their inability to help early game, caused the loss. A high match score doesn't mean jack.

You raise a good exception, ive certainly seen this happen. But the problem doesn't lie with my suggestion. It would be far better to deal with the root cause. I.e. punishing non participation properly and tuning the match score formula so that it more strongly reflects a win and so that people that abuse the game as you indicated arent rewarded.

[MechWarrior5152251]

I miss farming tier 5....

[Ezekeel666]

One simple rule: Gains to the PSR of the winning team must be exactly compensated by losses to the PSR of the losing team.

Since PGI does not seem to get that simple rule the only thing our current PSR system does is inflating the average PSR more and more with time which makes it completely worthless as an indicator for the player's skills.

[Lykaon]

Illuzian Pryde, on 24 December 2015 - 05:48 AM, said:

Not really for this idea. I think to fix PSR it needs to factor in more and weight each individual factor separately.

For example:
NARCs, TAGs, Damage Dealt, Average Accuracy, Killing Blows, Spotting, Assists, Damage dealt to shared target, or even voice comms used etc should all be weighted by something.

In addition there should be conditions like: If your team is quickly wiped, the round was short or it is a lopsided victory, lower the PSR hit. Victory or loss should not directly represent your contribution to the match at all, if you did a lot of spotting, dealt a lot of damage and were accurate you should still see a PSR increase.

At present, you are still very much at the mercy of your team and team composition. You might be in a game where the other team simply rolls through yours, or you might get caught out at the head of an enemy push and get killed quickly... while if this happens a lot you are definitely doing something wrong but it is often bad luck.

PSR as it is, guages a degree of skill but is still very much bound to team performance as was the old elo system. It really needs to actually reflect player skill and not some match score + win/loss system... in my opinion anyway.

Honestly PSR is really about team composition and performance. If 8 of your 12 team members are terrible the 4 that are not terrible get taken down with them.I have seen this time and time again.

End of match score board has 8 or 9 players with terrible scores low damage low assists and 3 or 4 that did all the lifting but couldn't do it fast enough to get an = PSR result so they lose the PSR standing based entirely on how aweful other players played.

I even had a match where my team lost whereI had 6 kills (2 of those solo kills) over 1k damage but that wasn't enough to carry the other 10 players (one other player had a good score but he lost PSR for the effort) The two of us essentially started with one other team mate and 10 designated casualties.

[Kyrie]

MechWarrior5152251, on 25 December 2015 - 05:59 AM, said:

I miss farming tier 5....

You can always start a new account. ;-)

[Votanin FleshRender]

Said it a hundred times, will say it a hundred more.

Any ratings system with the insane upward bias PSR has is moronic and turns it into simply an XP bar. The Biggest PSR drop is roughly equal to the smallest gain... and while you can gain on a loss, you cannot lose PSR on a win. STUPID.

[Simbacca]

Votanin FleshRender, on 25 December 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

Said it a hundred times, will say it a hundred more.

Any ratings system with the insane upward bias PSR has is moronic and turns it into simply an XP bar. The Biggest PSR drop is roughly equal to the smallest gain... and while you can gain on a loss, you cannot lose PSR on a win. STUPID.

I agree. PSR needs to be separated from the match score. For example, being the first one to target an enemy counts as scouting - but in reality it is just an XP and C-Bill giveaway - not a measure of skill.

Player performance needs to be examined with the team as a whole. Otherwise, players such as myself get carried to the higher tiers, and then pay the consequence when match maker does its thing.