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Hero Mech Question


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#1 War Kitten

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 02:39 PM

Greetings All,
I have saved up about 2100 MC and with the current sale realized that I can get a Hero mech. I wanted to ask those much wiser than I which might be a good mech. I tend to brawl a lot, so I wanted to gear towards that.

Another question... with the change in HS (the SHS went to 1.2 capacity .12 cooling/DHS 1.5 cooling .14), the SHS went up, the DHS came down, I know this might be more for game balance, but since I am getting a new mech usually with SHS I wonder what everyone thought about using them for a while. I have had times where I have been light in the weight and with unused slots and I know 1 shs is 1 ton 1 slot and a dhs 1t 3 slots, but a lot of times those slots are all over and I can't use a dhs and I feel a shs is better than no hs. Also I know 1=1 dhs is better, but would 2 shs out do 1dhs? Just wondering...

Thank you for all your help. I have found over the years most everyone has been very helpful and nice....*thank you* all!Posted Image

War Kitten
"I do what I want...your approval is *not* required!" --WK

#2 Rogue Jedi

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 03:36 PM

the only times SHS are viable over DHS are:
if you are after a low heat build, e.g. dual Gauss or lots of MGs with 1-2 med lasers or 1 larger laser.
if you are planning on taking more than 30 SHS

the first 10 DHS in engine (assuming you have a 250 or larger) are true double heatsinks, as in they dissipate 2 units of heat, the Clan out of engine, or past 10 in engine cDHS were the ones which revived a minor nerf, at least I am pretty sure it was just for Clan

as for good brawling heroes, the CN9-YLW Yen Lo Wang Centurion is pretty good, however the AH which you can get in the stocking stuffer event is quite similar (missiles instead of YLWs lasers)

the FS9-E is great as a skirmisher/finisher but not realy a brawler,

the Illia Muramets Cataphract Hero with its 3 Balistic hardpoints (best for 3 UAC5 or dual gauss) is great but you can do similar with a JM6

Misery can work well as a brawler but is too slow for me so I cannot recommend it based on my experience.

the Griffin, Wolverine or Shadow Hawk can all work as brawlers, but I think there are in all cases cbill variants which are better suited

#3 DrRedCoat

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 06:32 PM

I agree with Rogue Jedi, the Yen Lo Wang is a good hero brawler as long as you are a good torso twister and can protect your right arm. To his point about the AH vs the YLW, I prefer the YLW since it has energy points instead of missile which allows me to run a Std engine whereas the AH pretty much requires an XL since it's so ammo dependent.
The Ember is also good but as a light it doesn't brawl as well as it harasses.
The other heroes I either haven't tried or wouldn't recommend brawling with.

#4 Not A Real RAbbi

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 11:13 PM

I don't do brawling, so I can't really recommend you anything there.

HEAT SINKS! ALWAYS do doubles. ALWAYS. I did NOT stutter (well, I DID, but I backspaced through that s**t). ALWAYS. EVERY TIME.

It may be that you have only one (1) Medium Laser on that LCT-1V, and so there's not much heat generated by it. But find yourself on Mordor, and your three external heat sinks have all been critted out (you wisely used them to crit-pad your XL 190 engine's side-torso slots, and it seems to have WORKED!), you suddenly realize that RUNNING and FIRING in a HOT environment CAN build up more heat than your remaining SHS can deal with. G'head, ask me how I KNOW that.

ALWAYS DO DOUBLES! Single heat sinks belong to an entirely different game, and they kind of have a place there. Here, they are merely relics of the year 3025. TO single heat sinks, I say, "YOU have no power here!"

#5 War Kitten

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 02:00 AM

Greeting All,

Thanks for the advice so far....am looking at the Loop de Guerre...4 missiles, 2 energy JJ, 105kph, I have run srm6 x 4, and 2 Mplas on my JM6-A and it has been effective, this one is much faster and can jump more maneuverability..has quirks like +25% yaw, most of the energy/missile quirks are +/- 10%.

Anyone know of any downsides?

Thanks for the help!

War Kitten
"I do what I want, your approval is *not* required!" --WK

#6 epikt

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 02:34 AM

A hero brawler for less than 4200MC?
Multiple options:
  • the Oxide if you prefer light mechs (trust me this mech is pure glory)
  • the Yen Lo Wang, for the big forking gunz
  • the Loup de guerre should be a nice SRM brawler (but Trebuchets are not the best mechs so you might have trouble grinding them)
  • I've heard good things about the Grey Death, but I wonder if standard Shadowhawks wouldn't do better
edit:


Quote

Anyone know of any downsides?

Treebuchets downsides : oversized mech with horribad hitbox. Huge CT and big legs. The only good thing about it is you can mount an XL engine without any risk.
edit again : still, they are kind of fun to pilot.

Edited by epikt, 27 December 2015 - 02:42 AM.


#7 Not A Real RAbbi

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 02:02 PM

Trebuchet suffers the same problem as the Phoenix mediums--the doggone things are HUGE. Seriously, stand one next to a Centurion or Hunchback. Then realize that the Treb is the same weight, and WVR/SHD/GRF are only a single 5-ton increment heavier. They're ENORMOUS! (TWSS) Bigger means easier to hit, all else being equal. That's why I've stayed away from Trebs and the Phoenix heroes (bought the Overlord package w/Sabre reinforcement, and it wasn't my best decision ever). Even if you DO make 'em fast, they're just too big. The enormous left arms are usually good for shielding, so that's cool. Sorta.

Anyhow, you CAN missile-brawl in those Trebs and Kintaros, and to some extent in the Shadow Hawks and Wolverines and Griffins, but I wouldn't recommend it. Centurion may be a better choice, unless you really want JJs. Some pilots have good times in the HBK-4SP for that purpose, too, and I'd honestly prefer it over the SHD all day.

#8 Generic Internetter

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 03:53 PM

Try this as an experiment:

1. go to the mechlab (any mech)
2. strip all equipment. 'strip' is found in the "mech stats" tab.
3. add an engine (any engine STD or XL, preferably something middle-rating halfway down the list)
4. add an energy weapon (any will do, but preferably something that generates a lot of heat, say, a PPC)
(NOTE: don't add any heat sinks at all)

...so at this point you've got a mech with an engine and a weapon...

5. take note of your heat rating ("HEAT MGMT"). it's found in the "mech stats" tab.
6. add more weapons till it's more or less 1/2. any weapons will do.

(NOTE: heat ratings go from 0/2 to 2/2. 1/2 is a bare minimum, 1.5/2 is good, anything higher is great)

7. switch to double heat sinks
8. again, take note of your heat rating ("HEAT MGMT").

you'll notice that your heat rating jumped from around 1.0 to around 1.4; a 40% increase as stated in the "double heat sinks" tooltip.

all engines have magic hidden heat sinks built into them. as you lower your engine rating (IE select lighter engines), you're forced to make up for the reduced magic heat sinks by adding actual physical heat sinks into the mech equipment slots.
(anyone who's ever tried to custom build a locust knows the hell i'm talking about!
if you don't know, then try going up and down the engine rating scale... save 1.5 tons, lose 20kph and 1 ton&slot for another damn heat sink)

the point of the above steps is to see statistically that switching from single to double also switches the magic hidden engine heat sinks, thus giving you the +40% bonus, even if you havent added any heat sinks into any slots manually.

for low-tonnage laser boat builds, this is immensely helpful. with this you can go ferro-fibrous and endo-steel (eating up 28 slots and giving you a few extra precious tons), throw your weapons on, and still try to squeeze some heat sinks into the last remaining slots/tons.
most of your heat management comes from the magic engine heat sinks.

this is where heat balancing comes into play, adding or changing weapons in accordance with their HPS (heat-per-second) rating, and moving ammo around to free up slots for the odd heat sink here or there.
you might have the tonnage to slap on 3 large lasers, but if your heat rating isnt close to 1.5, you'll spend more time shut down than fighting.

you'll need to calculate HPS manually as follows: in the weapon tooltip, simply divide the "HEAT" by the "COOLDOWN". this is how much heat, on average, is generated by that weapon per second. i dont know how the values translate to heat % in the field, but it's a great way to compare weapons with each other and it is essential for building mechs that won't overheat.

this calculation is the same as calculating damage-per-second DPS; "DAMAGE" divided by "COOLDOWN". FIREPOWER shown in the mech stats tab is just the sum total of all your weapons' damage, as if all fired at once (aka "alpha strike").

whether calculating HPS or DPS, you'll need to figure out if you're going to be doing hit-n-run type stuff (focus FIREPOWER) or continuous damage (focus DPS & HPS).

range is also a factor.
Medium Lasers and Small Pulse Lasers are some same slottage and tonnage (1 and 1), but the SPLs give you higher DPS and lower HPS, at the cost of range. on the other hand, MLs give you better alpha strike firepower. which fits your intended playstyle?

another way to go is if you're using low-heat weapons, you can still go double, switch to ferro-fibrous and endo-steel, then use all the remaining slots for weapons and ammo without having to worry about using any slots at all for big fat double heat sinks.

sorry for rambling, my point here is that double heat sinks improve your heat rating even without any manually-added heat sinks, enabling you to have better heat control without losing slots or putting ammo in your legs (LOL!)

before buying a mech, make sure you have enough to cover the cost of a different engine and any ferro/double/endo/artemis changes you intend to make.
in fact, i always make a full finished custom-built setup before i buy anything, and i actually (roughly) calculate how much i'll need so i dont go broke when i make the purchase.

hope that wall of text helped.

Edited by Generic Internetter, 27 December 2015 - 04:24 PM.


#9 Koniving

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 04:11 PM

View PostWar Kitten, on 26 December 2015 - 02:39 PM, said:

Greetings All,
I have saved up about 2100 MC and with the current sale realized that I can get a Hero mech. I wanted to ask those much wiser than I which might be a good mech. I tend to brawl a lot, so I wanted to gear towards that.

Another question... with the change in HS (the SHS went to 1.2 capacity .12 cooling/DHS 1.5 cooling .14), the SHS went up, the DHS came down, I know this might be more for game balance, but since I am getting a new mech usually with SHS I wonder what everyone thought about using them for a while.

HEADS UP!

The DHS change is exclusively on Clan mechs. IS Double Heatsinks were NOT changed.

View PostWar Kitten, on 26 December 2015 - 02:39 PM, said:

Greetings All,
I have saved up about 2100 MC and with the current sale realized that I can get a Hero mech. I wanted to ask those much wiser than I which might be a good mech. I tend to brawl a lot, so I wanted to gear towards that.

Thank you for all your help. I have found over the years most everyone has been very helpful and nice....*thank you* all!Posted Image


You're welcome.

Also: within a budget of 2100 MC...

55 tons:
Gray Death.
Quarantine.
Golden Boy (SRMs, pulse lasers, maybe some streaks.)
(Sparky not suitable.)

50 tons:
Yen Lo Wang.
Grid Iron.
Loup de Guere (like a softer Golden Boy, not quite suitable for this).

45 tons:
Arrow.

Anything lighter, I don't recommend.

#10 Generic Internetter

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 04:17 PM

View PostTheRAbbi, on 27 December 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

Bigger means easier to hit, all else being equal. Even if you DO make 'em fast, they're just too big.


After several total re-builds, I sold my Dragon because the thing is just too big.
the center torso sticks out like a huge target dummy. the arms are diagonally flapped outwards like chicken wings.
The legs are the size of two Arctic Cheetahs french kissing.

yup.... several million C-Bills flushed down the toilet. lesson learned.

View PostTheRAbbi, on 27 December 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

Some pilots have good times in the HBK-4SP for that purpose, too, and I'd honestly prefer it over the SHD all day.


I have three hunchbacks all basic+elite complete for the X2 bonus. two of them have XL 275's and one at XL 265 and all have full armour. with careful selection of weapons and heat balancing, it's like playing a light mech but with much more protection. they're so much fun and so effective that i'm sure people are screaming "hunchback OP". PLS DONT NERF IT

HBK-4H -- PPC + AC/10 (for guerilla-style low-heat long-range pressure play)

HBK-4P -- 3x Large Laser (heat rating just over 1.3, but it works great for hit-n-run sniping)

HBK-4SP -- 4x Medium Laser + 2x SRM6+Artemis (the artemis turns the SRMs into a giant, accurate punch weapon. i've lost count of how many dire wolves i've solo-killed in this thing)

i only chose the hunchback because someone somewhere just said "hunchback is the best mech". they were not wrong, IMO.

#11 CJ Daxion

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 05:56 PM

Yen-Lo is probably your best bet.. Also the AH is an incredible bralwer, and the AL is another fine centurion, so at least you are getting 3 darn good mechs to add to your stable as well. The A is another decent choice if you want to try the ol AC-10.. it's more of a skirmisher though

the Huggin Is a great light brawler but warning they are a tough duck to master.. the other ravens are a bit different, but you can brawl with the 3L with a pair of ML+ plus a pair of SRM4's,, (great heavy lance ECM support, and lance protector).. or the 2X with 4 MPL's + SRM6, No ecm but great escort mech. <ost people run large lasers on them for sniping though, and not so much lance support..


Misery and Ilya can also do it, but they are more mixed brawler + ranged,, and i think even on this sale are above your price point..

View PostGeneric Internetter, on 27 December 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:



HBK-4SP -- 4x Medium Laser + 2x SRM6+Artemis (the artemis turns the SRMs into a giant, accurate punch weapon. i've lost count of how many dire wolves i've solo-killed in this thing)



The thing runs to hot for me like that.. I run mine 2X SRM4's no artemis, and pack in the double heat sinks. it works like a charm..

for a 2X SRM6 brawler try the wolverine 7K + a pair of MPLs and a big honking engine! very fast brawler with Jump jets

#12 TheCaptainJZ

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 08:12 PM

Heck, if you already have Jagermechs, check out the Firebrand.

#13 War Kitten

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 10:38 PM

Thank you all again for your advice....
I am leaning towards Loop because I see her as a challenge. I don't look for the easiest, most likely to win, mechs, my latest is a Dire Wolf, my "moves like a pregnant VW Bug with 4 flat tires" mech that a lot of people don't like because she is huge and slow and everyone's favorite target, and yet, I pulled off an 8 kill, 1480 dam game with her and surviving and winning that match (running 6 UAC2s). Having a more difficult mech means I have to be a better pilot. The Loop may have a bigger butt, but, she is fast, I can hold my own with the lights and still fight/out maneuver the big mechs. It all comes down to the pilot. She will be a challenge.....Posted Image

Thank you all for your help!Posted Image

War Kitten
"I do what I want, your approval is *not* needed..." --WK

#14 War Kitten

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 10:55 PM

To Generic Internetter:

Thank you for your "wall of words" it was most informative!Posted Image

War Kitten
"I do what I want, your approval is *not* required..." --WK

#15 epikt

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 02:18 AM

View PostWar Kitten, on 27 December 2015 - 10:38 PM, said:

I am leaning towards Loop because I see her as a challenge. I don't look for the easiest, most likely to win,

And you're right.
As I said the Trebuchets have their flaws, but they're fun.

PS : it's "loup", not "loop". ;)
It means "wolf" in French, it's pronounced something close to "loo" I suppose (with a short "oo"). "loup de guerre" is "wolf of war" (like in "dog of war", but with no masters I guess)

#16 Rogue Jedi

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 03:34 AM

View PostGeneric Internetter, on 27 December 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

Try this as an experiment:

1. go to the mechlab (any mech)
2. strip all equipment. 'strip' is found in the "mech stats" tab.
3. add an engine (any engine STD or XL, preferably something middle-rating halfway down the list)
4. add an energy weapon (any will do, but preferably something that generates a lot of heat, say, a PPC)
(NOTE: don't add any heat sinks at all)

...so at this point you've got a mech with an engine and a weapon...

5. take note of your heat rating ("HEAT MGMT"). it's found in the "mech stats" tab.
6. add more weapons till it's more or less 1/2. any weapons will do.

(NOTE: heat ratings go from 0/2 to 2/2. 1/2 is a bare minimum, 1.5/2 is good, anything higher is great)

7. switch to double heat sinks
8. again, take note of your heat rating ("HEAT MGMT").

try it with Smurfy, which uses % rather than some arcane formula which PGI has never explained ranging from 0-2, and you will see that switching from SHS to DHS alone (using 10 in engine heatsinks only) almost doubles your heat efficiency.
I tried with a Firestarter, 250 engine and 3 SL, it was at 52% with single heat sinks, 95% with doubles

This is because the first 10 heatsinks in the engine are true doubles, as in give you cap or 2 and dissipation of 0.2 per second, as opposed to single heatsinks only offering 1 cap and 0.12 dissipation, while Inner Sphere out of engine, or more than 10 in engine, double heatsinks offer 1.4 cap and 0.14 dissipation. Clan out of engine, or in engine past the first 10, offer 1.2 cap and 1.5 disipation.

That is right, Clans are better at dissipating the heat than IS after the "nerf", they just cannot fire as much before overheating.

#17 Nephologist

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 07:08 AM

If you want a "challenging" hero mech that's fun to brawl with once you get the hang of it, I suggest the St. Ives Blues.

I run mine with STD 250, 3 ML, 2 ASRM6, derp, seismic, srm weapon mods, etc. It is surprisingly tanky and very satisfying when you wreck face with such a supposedly "bad" mech.





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