447 replies to this topic

[Volts]

This thread is like a train wreck, and I am left wondering why I keep coming back to poke the grotesquely mutilated bodies.

Clan has a faster battle line. If you have a faster battle line + better damage application at range, terrain allowing you have a guaranteed win. Something had to be toned down, speed or range. Be thankful it is range.

[DivineEvil]

Sometimes this situation makes me want to laugh hysterically. IS player endured overpowered Clan mechs for a whole year, washing our faces with our own blood day after day, trying to figure out how to counter Clan ridiculous laser vomit, which was so no brainer it was taken to Vitric Forge without a second thought. As IS you still could've entered the central area there around Omega and get instantly evaporated by several bursts of CERML+CLPLs without even having time to respond. Or you could get to the sniping position on Boreal Vault only to find, that Clans are already trough the gate with their Stromcrow horde. How a bout a full squad of Timber Wolfs just jumping over the game, rushing the base and wrecking everything in their path? Sure thing.

TCAF practiced for months in order to develop a strategy, which would work against all of that. With dedicated drop commanding, we've struggled to use best mechs we had combined with our ever developing skills and temper to fight against something, that didn't require any skills whatsoever. And we had succeed in that...

Until Ebon Jaguars and Arctic Cheetahs has been introduced. After these two has appeared, absolutely nothing on our part could fight Clans with these new mechs. We basically gave up. When Jade Falcons sweeped trough the entire Inner Sphere deep into the southern sector, we halted the advance, but that was as good as we could do - it still took a full TCAF team to fight-off a 6-8 man + lonewolf force, together with enormous stress for pilots and commanders.

And now we have Clanners whine over the balance, because of one weapon on specific mechs on specific maps counters their weapon, which they used to be the ultimate unbeatable tool, that previously everyone had to work around or meet the inevitable demise. Is that's how the year of unquestionable domination shaped the minds of Clan players? This is why it makes me laugh so hard.

Taste your own poison. Evaluate yourself and adapt. Try stuff. Cooperate. Isn't that the crap you were feeding to the IS players this whole time? RIght now balance is extremely close, and I'm not sure in which direction. The dropdeck tonnage difference has to go, it is true. But please, don't tell us, that Clans are unplayable. If a single weapon with 100m range advantage makes your mechs unplayable, then there's some problem with your gameplay here. If that's is what enough for you to forget all the advantages you have, then your general quality as a player is under question.

- Clan ERLL still produces better DPS under 900m against 25% range enhanced ERLL, taking 1 ton and 1 slot less. This does not includes the Targeting Computer.
- Clan LPL sports pulse advantages, but by range replaces standard lasers.
- Clan Gauss has not suffered anything, that IS Gauss didn't also. That means it's still a powerful weapon to use against quirked ERLL mechs. Which we do, but you don't. Why?
- However sniping, brawling or whatever is working for Clans or IS is irrelevant. Brawling mechs will always wipe out snipers if proper engage is performed. There's good snipers and brawlers on both sides. Differences between factions will never be deterministic of how to play one or another.

[Av4tar]

Inkarnus, on 19 January 2016 - 05:48 AM, said:

Clan doesnt have:
-brawl advantage
...

seriously?

[Kieva]

Volts, on 19 January 2016 - 06:00 AM, said:

This thread is like a train wreck, and I am left wondering why I keep coming back to poke the grotesquely mutilated bodies.

Clan has a faster battle line. If you have a faster battle line + better damage application at range, terrain allowing you have a guaranteed win. Something had to be toned down, speed or range. Be thankful it is range.

The thread is a train wreck for the people like you who think one little thing is the problem, or the deal saver. That's on both sides of the coin. Also, it doesn't matter how fast your mechs move when you're on attack against a coordinated unit. They can set-up or rotate the defensive line to counter it in seconds.

Seriously, I doubt PGI thinks anything more of this than a lot of crying anyway, but the slights of the Clan Mechs' initial release doesn't make it right to make Clan loyalists miserable to the point of quitting the game. In fact, I can tell you a LOT of Clan units have already left the game. Because guess what, contrary to what you're all saying, the Inner Sphere loyalist groups CRIED CRIED CRIED about the Clans at the time too.

Lastly, I'm not whining anymore, I'm articulating myself and pointing out actual gameplay flaws. The initial post was a bit of a vent, but it's turned in to something hot, so here I am cooled off, explaining my points.

As said before, it's not just one thing. It's not the range quirks on their own, which by the way, DO stack up to a lot more than the defenders of it crack it up to be. As previously mentioned, especially on maps like Boreal Vault where there is no safe place from the SINGLE firing line that can be set up to cover both gates, the attacking team enters, and is promptly beset by a loss of 20% of their mech's overall health. Since the clans can't fight back against this because of structure quirks and range quirks.

Also, there is truth in the brawl statement, more skill than mech chassis. The only problem is that the structure quirks also supplement that for Inner Sphere in a ludicrous way. The loadout for a Clan mech has to be brawl specific now, or you'll kiss dirt. Example, my only mech that gets more than one kill before it's dropped is a Timberwolf with 4 SRM6+Artemis and 4 Small Pulse, and that makes me meta scum because that's a popular build for a lot of Clanners.

So, seriously everyone, the cut-down comments about 'argument' on this thread are kind of sad, because discussion is the point of this entire section.

On the Inner Sphere side we've got people justifying what is an undeniable imbalance with "We went through this for xxx", which I follow up with, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Or did you forget? On the Clans side there are some over-dramatizing people, but I still point out that everyone cried over "Clanz OP QQ."

To reinforce that, a mocking battlecry for victory over the past months has been "Clans OP PGI pliss nerf."

Edited by Kieva, 19 January 2016 - 11:37 AM.

[Volts]

I play Clans. I play IS. I don't cry about balance issues.

Clearly I'm the problem.

[Jon Gotham]

Volts, on 19 January 2016 - 11:48 AM, said:

I play Clans. I play IS. I don't cry about balance issues.

Clearly I'm the problem.

Technically yes you could be part of it at least.
"put up and shut up" is probably one of the stupidest things people say. there are still balance issues here, between clan and IS-they do need to be discussed and brought out into the open. just because one group suffered through it doesn't mean the other group should too.
"Well I think it's fine because I do well" also isn't helpful.
Both groups should be fine and happy.
An eye for an eye does indeed make the whole world blind.

[Maximus Wolf]

DivineEvil, on 19 January 2016 - 07:55 AM, said:

- Clan ERLL still produces better DPS under 900m against 25% range enhanced ERLL, taking 1 ton and 1 slot less. This does not includes the Targeting Computer.
- Clan LPL sports pulse advantages, but by range replaces standard lasers.

Come on, man! You have your points, but... I hate when freeborns tell only part of truth they like and hide the rest.

• Yes, C-ERLL produces more DPS, but don't forget about 20% higher HPS, cause if you talk about damage over time you should never forget about amount of heat generated through that time.
  
• For additional 235 meters on C-LPL we pay 28% increased HPS while have similar DPS. How about that?

In fact, I can go on forever on thing like that. Like I told before, we have some obvious "OP" 'Mechs and weapons, but on the other side always something nasty.

Currently I see that both sides very different. Is it what I would like to see? No. And it's very far from lore. But I can live with that. Just don't bring back the good old fashioned LRMageddon.

Edited by Maximus Wolf, 19 January 2016 - 12:08 PM.

[StonedVet]

I cannot remember the last time I tried being a sniper in a clan mech. ... Oh wait I never have. Even in inferior mechs when we use our OP teamwork and coordination its turning into clan victories.

[Volts]

kamiko kross, on 19 January 2016 - 11:55 AM, said:

Technically yes you could be part of it at least.
"put up and shut up" is probably one of the stupidest things people say. there are still balance issues here, between clan and IS-they do need to be discussed and brought out into the open. just because one group suffered through it doesn't mean the other group should too.
"Well I think it's fine because I do well" also isn't helpful.
Both groups should be fine and happy.
An eye for an eye does indeed make the whole world blind.

Balance is the best its ever been. I've never enjoyed the game more, because of it.

There are minor issues I have covered here and elsewhere that need to be addressed (lol BJ 2 beaucoup), but they are comparatively minor gripes that can be fixed incrementally and with consdieration. Too many threads though, by too many whiners who use their mechs as a crutch gets old. So many great pug drops against people striving for victory vs miserable matches against people that give up before they begin, and then complain that not trying mysteriously doesn't make them any better. Clearly the only panacea for that is to come to the forums and complain unconstructively.

Threads like this are a cancer, and the constructive ones are made cancerous by the people that congregate in them being utterly unwilling to accept advice or moderate, objective viewpoints (which clearly I am way beyond now). These places, regardless of original intents or reasoning become echo chambers for polemics and its wearying.

The best advice I can leave you plebs with, is to strive for objectivity in your game. It might be the game, but it might be you, and the best way to truly tell is to drop with other people who are better than you. Do they struggle? Do you struggle when you are with them? Do you get better by playing with them (if you can't crutch on your mech, you should definitely crutch on friendly strangers).

When I recommend this game to people, I stress that its one of the friendliest, most welcoming communities out there (the people obviously, the game can have a steep curve). People should leverage that resource first, instead of resorting to the same old saw we see day after day here.

[Jack Spade Ward]

Eden Blackheaven, on 19 January 2016 - 09:49 AM, said:

seriously?

yep, seriously

[DivineEvil]

Kieva, on 19 January 2016 - 11:36 AM, said:

The thread is a train wreck for the people like you who think one little thing is the problem, or the deal saver. That's on both sides of the coin. Also, it doesn't matter how fast your mechs move when you're on attack against a coordinated unit. They can set-up or rotate the defensive line to counter it in seconds.

If you're in a coordinated group as well, you has all the tools to work over the enemy actions. The question is, are you trying? Or do you persistently use the same tactics and mechs over and over, even thought they're not as reliable as they're used to be?

Quote

Seriously, I doubt PGI thinks anything more of this than a lot of crying anyway, but the slights of the Clan Mechs' initial release doesn't make it right to make Clan loyalists miserable to the point of quitting the game. In fact, I can tell you a LOT of Clan units have already left the game. Because guess what, contrary to what you're all saying, the Inner Sphere loyalist groups CRIED CRIED CRIED about the Clans at the time too.

Then these Clan units do not worth a damn. Because IS units were enduring it. Whether they were crying or not back then, they're still here nonetheless. TCAF were not crying, mostly because less than a 1/10th of our unit learned english language enough to do so.

Once again, if that's what is enough to drive someone away, again, it questions their quality as a player.

Quote

Lastly, I'm not whining anymore, I'm articulating myself and pointing out actual gameplay flaws. The initial post was a bit of a vent, but it's turned in to something hot, so here I am cooled off, explaining my points.


As said before, it's not just one thing. It's not the range quirks on their own, which by the way, DO stack up to a lot more than the defenders of it crack it up to be. As previously mentioned, especially on maps like Boreal Vault where there is no safe place from the SINGLE firing line that can be set up to cover both gates, the attacking team enters, and is promptly beset by a loss of 20% of their mech's overall health. Since the clans can't fight back against this because of structure quirks and range quirks.

I can't think of a team, that would lose a fifth of their team's power while crossing 200-250 meter ground between a gate and a closest ridge. Especially when we're talking about Clan mechs. I want a video demonstration of that happening, otherwise it seems unrealistic to be the case.

Quote

Also, there is truth in the brawl statement, more skill than mech chassis. The only problem is that the structure quirks also supplement that for Inner Sphere in a ludicrous way. The loadout for a Clan mech has to be brawl specific now, or you'll kiss dirt. Example, my only mech that gets more than one kill before it's dropped is a Timberwolf with 4 SRM6+Artemis and 4 Small Pulse, and that makes me meta scum because that's a popular build for a lot of Clanners.

Meta scum? Meta scums are exactly these ERLL folk, which you despise. Meta has nothing to do with brawling in the first place. Brawling is what fights against the poke meta, and it always were holding that position, which is why TCAF brawls 90% of the time. I just don't get your frustration over brawling in a Timber? Never had to feel the tension of close-range engagement? Welcome to the club.

So, seriously everyone, the cut-down comments about 'argument' on this thread are kind of sad, because discussion is the point of this entire section.

Quote

On the Inner Sphere side we've got people justifying what is an undeniable imbalance with "We went through this for xxx", which I follow up with, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Or did you forget? On the Clans side there are some over-dramatizing people, but I still point out that everyone cried over "Clanz OP QQ."

We bring it up as response to your whining, arrogance and limitations. We had a year to get better against clearly uneven odds and obvious, uncompensated advantages of your mechs. It wasn't even IS players alone, that "cried" over balance, but Clan players themselves agreed with it all the time. The difference were, Clan mechs were actually OP quite undeniably, by all possible considerations.

And here we are, roughly a month past, and you're sure to claim, that Clans are unplayable. The point is, imbalance is not undeniable. Current balance state is the closest that it ever were. It might take time for Clan players to adjust and get used to equated level of challenge and competition, which they never seen before. And there are people, who rightfully vouch for equal drop weight values. There are people, who point out particular overquirked mechs. But none of that seems to be enough to make Clans unplayable, especially from the perspective of people, who learned the meaning of that word on their own skins. It's only shows, how easy you guys had it all this time, without the need to think about anything at all.

Quote

To reinforce that, a mocking battlecry for victory over the past months has been "Clans OP PGI pliss nerf."

Again, we were enduring the same mockery from you. For. A. Year. You have no idea.

Maximus Wolf, on 19 January 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

Come on, man! You have your points, but... I hate when freeborns tell only part of truth they like and hide the rest.

• Yes, C-ERLL produces more DPS, but don't forget about 20% higher HPS, cause if you talk about damage over time you should never forget about amount of heat generated through that time.
  
• For additional 235 meters on C-LPL we pay 28% increased HPS while have similar DPS. How about that?

Yep, but all your weapons weight less, and thus you can get more DHS. When your weapon is not lighter, then it's outright better generally compared to IS analogue. In poke-wars on cold maps, HPS has a secondary role.

Quote

Currently I see that both sides very different. Is it what I would like to see? No. And it's very far from lore. But I can live with that. Just don't bring back the good old fashioned LRMageddon.

Sides has to be different, otherwise there's less reasons to have sides in the first place. As long as we're all piloting mechs and using the same mechlab, it feels fine by me.

Edited by DivineEvil, 19 January 2016 - 06:56 PM.

[Jack Spade Ward]

Ok, listen up, many people complain about the laser vomit build on the clan side! And do you know why the clanners use the vomit build?
Ill tell you why, because no other weapon system on clan tech is good enough to be competitive enough!
- LRMs spread way to much and that line of missiles is way to easy to be shot down by AMS, it was made to be easy shot down, all the former players rememberd that when the clans firstly came out, and they are way too hot. same goes for SRMs
- C ACs / UACs are great! Well... at least as a show off... spread damage way too much and those have a bug ever since they came out, im talking about the bug where you actually press to shoot and it wont fire, but the ammo count goes down.... a very old bug that is still around. So, no pin-point damage! If the C/ACs would fire a single volley like IS, those would be very nice, but they dont. PGI mentioned that when the clans came out, mentioning that clan weapons would make alot of DPS, but not accurate.
So, what is left? LASERS!!!
At least, that what it used to be, until the nerfs came! 5 NERF HAMMERS on the clans, mainly at the only weapon system that actually worked.
CERLL go far but, not as far as ISERLL quirked, and the burn time is stupid, specially on negative quirk mechs like timber wolfs! There's a thing called lightsabering amongst the clans, wich is using CERLL on timber or crows, with their neg quircks on duration, those lasers look more of a light saber than anything else.
Do you actually see anyone (that actually knows what hes doing) on the clan side using CERLL? No! Because those are broken. And they heat up way to much.
Other lasers suffer from similar problems. Add that to the double (single!) heatsink nerf, and what do you get?

You get IS fan boys cheering that the game is now balanced!!! Clan fan boys QQing that the clans are dead! (wich thy are)

I have been a core clan player, i know every single clan mech (i own them all), its strenghts and its weakness.
Now, im a IS player. Why? Because clan mechs are, indeed, that bad!
Why would i play only half of the game? Can do pug drops, but not CW. As IS, i can do both and win with ease, wich i have.
Ive been through all of the nerfs and buffs of the game, as other founders have, so i think i do know what im saying.

I own all the meta mechs and builds both sides (timbers, crows, blackjacks, firestarters, you name it) and i say this with all my experience, IS is way too powerfull now!

I do think that, this being a Battletech game, clans should have the best tech (but in fact is the way around), with IS having the best economy and logistics. There are so many options and good solutions for this to work, but PGI seems to look away from lore, at their convinience, when it suits them.

PS- in my opinion, the 4th nerf hammer was more than enough to equalize clans and IS, the quirks were doing alot diference back then, but with the last nerf, it killed clan. If youre a new player, just avoid clans, that is my advice!

[Vagosei]

Kieva, on 19 January 2016 - 11:36 AM, said:

The thread is a train wreck for the people like you who think one little thing is the problem, or the deal saver. That's on both sides of the coin. Also, it doesn't matter how fast your mechs move when you're on attack against a coordinated unit. They can set-up or rotate the defensive line to counter it in seconds.

Seriously, I doubt PGI thinks anything more of this than a lot of crying anyway, but the slights of the Clan Mechs' initial release doesn't make it right to make Clan loyalists miserable to the point of quitting the game. In fact, I can tell you a LOT of Clan units have already left the game. Because guess what, contrary to what you're all saying, the Inner Sphere loyalist groups CRIED CRIED CRIED about the Clans at the time too.

Lastly, I'm not whining anymore, I'm articulating myself and pointing out actual gameplay flaws. The initial post was a bit of a vent, but it's turned in to something hot, so here I am cooled off, explaining my points.

As said before, it's not just one thing. It's not the range quirks on their own, which by the way, DO stack up to a lot more than the defenders of it crack it up to be. As previously mentioned, especially on maps like Boreal Vault where there is no safe place from the SINGLE firing line that can be set up to cover both gates, the attacking team enters, and is promptly beset by a loss of 20% of their mech's overall health. Since the clans can't fight back against this because of structure quirks and range quirks.

Also, there is truth in the brawl statement, more skill than mech chassis. The only problem is that the structure quirks also supplement that for Inner Sphere in a ludicrous way. The loadout for a Clan mech has to be brawl specific now, or you'll kiss dirt. Example, my only mech that gets more than one kill before it's dropped is a Timberwolf with 4 SRM6+Artemis and 4 Small Pulse, and that makes me meta scum because that's a popular build for a lot of Clanners.

So, seriously everyone, the cut-down comments about 'argument' on this thread are kind of sad, because discussion is the point of this entire section.

On the Inner Sphere side we've got people justifying what is an undeniable imbalance with "We went through this for xxx", which I follow up with, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Or did you forget? On the Clans side there are some over-dramatizing people, but I still point out that everyone cried over "Clanz OP QQ."

To reinforce that, a mocking battlecry for victory over the past months has been "Clans OP PGI pliss nerf."

I hope the forum that I posted on CWI website you do read and look at. I did that for one purpose. Just to show that yes the IS and Clan mechs are balanced very well. Even though they should be superior as even they are more expensive to buy. Player/Team skill level and Strategy are needed to win on either side. Either side just can't charge in and have the one click button win. This is a fun game. I certainly hope all have fun and enjoy it.

Volts, on 19 January 2016 - 04:08 PM, said:

Balance is the best its ever been. I've never enjoyed the game more, because of it.

There are minor issues I have covered here and elsewhere that need to be addressed (lol BJ 2 beaucoup), but they are comparatively minor gripes that can be fixed incrementally and with consdieration. Too many threads though, by too many whiners who use their mechs as a crutch gets old. So many great pug drops against people striving for victory vs miserable matches against people that give up before they begin, and then complain that not trying mysteriously doesn't make them any better. Clearly the only panacea for that is to come to the forums and complain unconstructively.

Threads like this are a cancer, and the constructive ones are made cancerous by the people that congregate in them being utterly unwilling to accept advice or moderate, objective viewpoints (which clearly I am way beyond now). These places, regardless of original intents or reasoning become echo chambers for polemics and its wearying.

The best advice I can leave you plebs with, is to strive for objectivity in your game. It might be the game, but it might be you, and the best way to truly tell is to drop with other people who are better than you. Do they struggle? Do you struggle when you are with them? Do you get better by playing with them (if you can't crutch on your mech, you should definitely crutch on friendly strangers).

When I recommend this game to people, I stress that its one of the friendliest, most welcoming communities out there (the people obviously, the game can have a steep curve). People should leverage that resource first, instead of resorting to the same old saw we see day after day here.

Amen Volts!

[DivineEvil]

Spadejack, on 19 January 2016 - 06:54 PM, said:

Ok, listen up, many people complain about the laser vomit build on the clan side! And do you know why the clanners use the vomit build?
Ill tell you why, because no other weapon system on clan tech is good enough to be competitive enough!

False presuppositions.

Quote

- LRMs spread way to much and that line of missiles is way to easy to be shot down by AMS, it was made to be easy shot down, all the former players rememberd that when the clans firstly came out, and they are way too hot. same goes for SRMs

- Some CGBI members had some nice fortune using LRMs and were fine with their spread, although they're used them to the extent where they became impractical for the attack wave.
- Almost nobody runs AMS in CW, and AMS in general never were considered that much efficient at countering LRM. A full 12 team with AMS installed is usually enough only to migitate the constant fire from 2-3 LRM boats. ECM always were the ultimate counter to LRM, but it's no longer capable of covering a lot of mechs, so there's yet another reason to try using LRM support in CW.
- Neither LRMs nor SRMs are hot. A single C-ER Medium Laser produces more heat, than a LRM/20, and a singe C-Small Pulse Laser produces as much heat as SRM/6.

Quote

- C ACs / UACs are great! Well... at least as a show off... spread damage way too much and those have a bug ever since they came out, im talking about the bug where you actually press to shoot and it wont fire, but the ammo count goes down.... a very old bug that is still around. So, no pin-point damage! If the C/ACs would fire a single volley like IS, those would be very nice, but they dont. PGI mentioned that when the clans came out, mentioning that clan weapons would make alot of DPS, but not accurate.

With their potential DPS over longer range for less space and tonnage, damage pread seems pretty pathetic. There's no cone-of-fire, so that damage is just as pin-point as you can deliver.
About the bug, first time I see it mentioned. Never had it, so I call bull***t.

Quote

So, what is left? LASERS!!!

At least, that what it used to be, until the nerfs came! 5 NERF HAMMERS on the clans, mainly at the only weapon system that actually worked.

Rather, as the only weapon system, that was so overpowered, other weapon systems were completely redundant.

Quote

CERLL go far but, not as far as ISERLL quirked, and the burn time is stupid, specially on negative quirk mechs like timber wolfs! There's a thing called lightsabering amongst the clans, wich is using CERLL on timber or crows, with their neg quircks on duration, those lasers look more of a light saber than anything else.

Burn time is 0.25 second difference. Timberwolfs were not meant for sniping. Besides, only omni-pods with multiple Energy hardpoints are penalized to demote laser-vomit. Single hardpoint omnipods are not affected, and Summoners even has some positive quirks. Do yourself a favor - stop being a douchebag, and try to support ERLL builds with something besides moar lazors.

Quote

Do you actually see anyone (that actually knows what hes doing) on the clan side using CERLL? No! Because those are broken. And they heat up way to much.

Other lasers suffer from similar problems. Add that to the double (single!) heatsink nerf, and what do you get?

Stupid people crying over narrowly chosen numbers and hypothetic situations without practical considerations.

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I have been a core clan player, i know every single clan mech (i own them all), its strenghts and its weakness.

I know them too - it doesn't required to be a clan player for that. I do own several Clan mechs for MRBC, because I know too well, that despite all this noncense, competetive players will still pick a Clan mech over an IS mech whenever possible.

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Now, im a IS player. Why? Because clan mechs are, indeed, that bad!

Nah, it's because you're that bad. Bailing out of unfomfortable environment so readily shows a lot about your personality as a player. One, who doesn't has guts to stand for his choices does not impress me the least.

Quote

Why would i play only half of the game? Can do pug drops, but not CW. As IS, i can do both and win with ease, wich i have.

Ive been through all of the nerfs and buffs of the game, as other founders have, so i think i do know what im saying.

Then keep winning with ease. That's seems to be your limit in MWO. Too bad.

Quote

I own all the meta mechs and builds both sides (timbers, crows, blackjacks, firestarters, you name it) and i say this with all my experience, IS is way too powerfull now!

Doesn't means anything. I've seen new Steam players performing on a Stream far better, than some Founders still do with their 120+ mech stockpiles. Owning mechs does not give you a better perspective.

Quote

I do think that, this being a Battletech game, clans should have the best tech (but in fact is the way around), with IS having the best economy and logistics. There are so many options and good solutions for this to work, but PGI seems to look away from lore, at their convinience, when it suits them.

Yeah, because it's so easy to implement economy and logistics. And it certainly wont repeat the mistakes of R&R system of the past. There won't be 5+ additional issues to balance trough.

Gosh, I don't even know why I'm even wasting my time on this...

Quote

PS- in my opinion, the 4th nerf hammer was more than enough to equalize clans and IS, the quirks were doing alot diference back then, but with the last nerf, it killed clan. If youre a new player, just avoid clans, that is my advice!

Easy to judge from a "core clanner" perspective.

Edited by DivineEvil, 19 January 2016 - 07:53 PM.

[ch3sn0k]

DivineEvil, on 19 January 2016 - 07:52 PM, said:

Some CGBI members had some nice fortune using LRMs and were fine with their spread, although they're used them to the extent where they became impractical for the attack wave.

Some people had some nice fortune using Flamers and were fine with their performance. Doesn't make Flamer a useful weapon.

DivineEvil, on 19 January 2016 - 07:52 PM, said:

With their potential DPS over longer range for less space and tonnage, damage pread seems pretty pathetic. There's no cone-of-fire, so that damage is just as pin-point as you can deliver.

Yes, a burst of 4 shells on a moving twisting target is always going to land like a single IS shell. Just as pinpoint.

DivineEvil, on 19 January 2016 - 07:52 PM, said:

Rather, as the only weapon system, that was so overpowered, other weapon systems were completely redundant.

You mean as in right now? Gauss is laughably useless, lrms are the same, clan autocannons might as well be called shotguns, erppcs have the travel speed of a clamshell with the damage of ac/10 and highest heat in the game. Gee, I wonder why competitive people only use laser vomit builds?

DivineEvil, on 19 January 2016 - 07:52 PM, said:

Burn time is 0.25 second difference.

Apparently 1.5 - 0.8 equals 0.25. Why are you even posting in this thread if you fail at basic math?

DivineEvil, on 19 January 2016 - 07:52 PM, said:

Timberwolfs were not meant for sniping. Besides, only omni-pods with multiple Energy hardpoints are penalized to demote laser-vomit. Single hardpoint omnipods are not affected, and Summoners even has some positive quirks. Do yourself a favor - stop being a douchebag, and try to support ERLL builds with something besides moar lazors.

Support ERLL builds that require you to present your whole profile (can't have them tasty high torso mounts, clanner scum!) for 1.5 seconds for the enemy to shred? And you still wonder why clans never play the range sniping game?

DivineEvil, on 19 January 2016 - 07:52 PM, said:

Stupid people crying over narrowly chosen numbers and hypothetic situations without practical considerations.

Ridiculous extra heat and burn time are practical considerations, that rightfully buried any serious use of CERLL. CERML is only used because it's much harder to cram CMPL in it's place.

DivineEvil, on 19 January 2016 - 07:52 PM, said:

I know them too - it doesn't required to be a clan player for that. I do own several Clan mechs for MRBC, because I know too well, that despite all this noncense, competetive players will still pick a Clan mech over an IS mech whenever possible.

Unsubstantiated hearsay.

DivineEvil, on 19 January 2016 - 07:52 PM, said:

Nah, it's because you're that bad. Bailing out of unfomfortable environment so readily shows a lot about your personality as a player. One, who doesn't has guts to stand for his choices does not impress me the least.

Ad hominem.

Edited by ch3sn0k, 20 January 2016 - 12:16 AM.

[Female Body Inspector]

This will be my last post in this thread because it's useless trying to hammer some sense into the majority of the IS player base.

I, as well as others have given proof in the form of actual math (something some of you IS players can't do at a 1st grade level it seems) and yet you won't admit that the game is undeniably unbalanced.

You give the same response over and over again;

Quote

Balance is the best its ever been

Sure it's the best the balance has ever been... In the IS's favour. Using that logic the game balance was the best it ever was back when Clan first came out.

Just because one side now has the long end of the stick doesn't make the game balanced and the only reason the majority, note I said majority because not all IS players believe the game is balanced, say it's the best its ever been is because they are now no longer on the short end of the stick.

Yes the IS had to deal with this imbalance for a year and I shared that discomfort because I was IS in CW until November last year and yet here I am saying loud and clear that the game is not bloody balanced. Here I am, a former IS player who went through the Clan imbalance saying that the game isn't balanced and the only reason I'm not IS right now is because I prefer the Clan Unit I'm with to the IS player base and it's because of the majority of IS players crying why I left for the Clans in the first place. You say adapt etc yet the IS never adapted to the Clan imbalance of old, instead you cried and whined till PGI kissed your boo boo's.

The majority of IS players are hypocrites, plain and simple.

[Jack Spade Ward]

DivineEvil, on 19 January 2016 - 07:52 PM, said:

False presuppositions.

- Some CGBI members had some nice fortune using LRMs and were fine with their spread, although they're used them to the extent where they became impractical for the attack wave.
- Almost nobody runs AMS in CW, and AMS in general never were considered that much efficient at countering LRM. A full 12 team with AMS installed is usually enough only to migitate the constant fire from 2-3 LRM boats. ECM always were the ultimate counter to LRM, but it's no longer capable of covering a lot of mechs, so there's yet another reason to try using LRM support in CW.
- Neither LRMs nor SRMs are hot. A single C-ER Medium Laser produces more heat, than a LRM/20, and a singe C-Small Pulse Laser produces as much heat as SRM/6.

With their potential DPS over longer range for less space and tonnage, damage pread seems pretty pathetic. There's no cone-of-fire, so that damage is just as pin-point as you can deliver.
About the bug, first time I see it mentioned. Never had it, so I call bull***t.

Rather, as the only weapon system, that was so overpowered, other weapon systems were completely redundant.

Burn time is 0.25 second difference. Timberwolfs were not meant for sniping. Besides, only omni-pods with multiple Energy hardpoints are penalized to demote laser-vomit. Single hardpoint omnipods are not affected, and Summoners even has some positive quirks. Do yourself a favor - stop being a douchebag, and try to support ERLL builds with something besides moar lazors.


Stupid people crying over narrowly chosen numbers and hypothetic situations without practical considerations.

I know them too - it doesn't required to be a clan player for that. I do own several Clan mechs for MRBC, because I know too well, that despite all this noncense, competetive players will still pick a Clan mech over an IS mech whenever possible.

Nah, it's because you're that bad. Bailing out of unfomfortable environment so readily shows a lot about your personality as a player. One, who doesn't has guts to stand for his choices does not impress me the least.

Then keep winning with ease. That's seems to be your limit in MWO. Too bad.

Doesn't means anything. I've seen new Steam players performing on a Stream far better, than some Founders still do with their 120+ mech stockpiles. Owning mechs does not give you a better perspective.

Yeah, because it's so easy to implement economy and logistics. And it certainly wont repeat the mistakes of R&R system of the past. There won't be 5+ additional issues to balance trough.

Gosh, I don't even know why I'm even wasting my time on this...

Easy to judge from a "core clanner" perspective.

Well, after watching this guy's answer... sigh...
Where can you report here on forums? I mean, what a child... some guys really refuse to accept reality...

[Gas Guzzler]

Spadejack, on 20 January 2016 - 07:34 AM, said:

Well, after watching this guy's answer... sigh...
Where can you report here on forums? I mean, what a child... some guys really refuse to accept reality...

Yes, people like you are refusing to accept reality.

A multitude of experienced players have played on both sides of the ball and reached the verdict that at most there is a marginal imbalance with a couple of IS Chassis that were overquirked. My experience agrees with this assessment. The only people who don't are the ones who have been complaining about Clans being underpowered since before the quirkening.

[Jon Gotham]

It's not just him though Gas is it?
Every single "balance is fine" or "it's the best it's ever been" are guilty of the same thing. Just because it's close now, doesn't mean it's correct!
We should be looking at the outliers and getting them sorted out properly, such things as negative quirks on some clan chassis-are they really needed now? IS vs Is balance seems great to me now, had some good games vs other Is teams...but IS vs clan still don't seem "there" yet.
I used to occasionally drop with your unit as a puggy tag-along, I was present many times when your guys just rolled clan units BEFORE the nerfs,unless we ran up against a REALLY good clan unit it was easy then...why? Because you guys leveraged the Is advatnages really well:
Survivability
Short duration weapons
Less heat (major one here)
PPFLD builds.
You know as well as I do-that even then if we just pushed hard nearly everytime we could just outbrawl clanners and that was before the last round of nerfs...which led to many Is mechs getting better and clans took heat hits again AND the side torso nerf...sp logically they do have to be a bit (however small) worse off than before.

That marginal imbalance you mentioned I agree with, however the mechs that make up that imbalance are what most clan players face constantly-which in turn skews their perspective.

"Balance is fine" and "balance is best it's ever been" are just flat out wrong though-we all deep down know it isn't, how about we point out what meeds to be adjusted and get the baance right?

[Jack Spade Ward]

Gas Guzzler, on 20 January 2016 - 08:04 AM, said:

Yes, people like you are refusing to accept reality.

A multitude of experienced players have played on both sides of the ball and reached the verdict that at most there is a marginal imbalance with a couple of IS Chassis that were overquirked. My experience agrees with this assessment. The only people who don't are the ones who have been complaining about Clans being underpowered since before the quirkening.

multitude? really? well, let me say that im one of those experienced players, and i also do know alot of experienced players that says that IS has the advantage, on EVERYTHING, however small it may be.
facts are facts, and your trolling is just that, trolling.
By the way, im having a blast using "inferior" IS mechs, and showing those clanners how "inferior" IS mechs are... but, almost every single clan player knows that...