24 replies to this topic

[Bud Crue]

So, a while back I decided to get the Grasshopper. Last night was my first play with them. Not seeing any particular love here. About the only playable builds I could come up with (again this is the first night here, I will be experimenting for several weeks at least) was an over sized Quickdraw 5-K (essentially 2 large lasers or 2 large pulse lasers with some back up mediums and smalls with a standard 300) and then a jumping X1 (8 medium lasers and a standard 325) or a jumping 5ss (7 medium pulse lasers and standard 300).

My gut tells me that I need to embrace the XL here and put bigger XL engines on this to get some flavor. I just really hesitate using XLs on big mechs for obvious reasons (though I have seen many on these forums asserting that the Hopper is XL friendly). Open to suggestions here (just need to save up my c-bills to buy em).

Even with the XL possibility, I am not seeing how to make this thing much better or even just different than a Quickdraw 5K or many other near equivalent mechs. I think any build should use the jump jets, otherwise its a 5 ton lighter Black Knight and that opens up yet another avenue of comparison.

TLDR: please give me your build suggestions for a JJ capable Hopper that is playable and ideally a bit different than other mechs.

[Father Tork]

I run mine with just 6 Medium Pulse Lasers, quirks be damned. Despite being big I just try to stick near more threatening targets while keeping constant pressure on enemy team.

[Bud Crue]

Tork,

Yeah, I am doing 1 build like that (7MPL in what I call my Hopper-5SS). I can do a 6MPL build on a Quickdraw 5K. The Hopper with the same build just feels redundant (and slower). At least my Hopper-5ss is distinguished from the Thunderbolt by the addition of the jump jets, so I can live with it and will likely use it. But that is the key for what I am looking for here:

Distinctiveness.

I'm trying to come up something other than what I already do in other mechs. I don't need big differences, but I need at least SOME difference in play or function, otherwise I know I will just take the lighter mech that can do the same thing. I feel like most builds I have come up with are slower less efficient Quickdraws. Alas, I have 10 Quickdraws of which 4 are 5ks. Only thing I can come up with for "distinctive" Hoppers vs the 5ks are perhaps going with big XL engines with mixes of PPCs and MPL or SPL backups. Its the only thing I can think of that I don't run in Quickdraws. But even in that case I still could use some ideas, though I am open to anything as long as it is unique (but still playable)!

[rolly]

Define "Unique" and "Playable"?

Really, I can't suggest much since its a Grasshopper, front-line CQB fighter, 70 tons.
Either you love the mech, are curious, and/or have an idea what you want to do with it. (buyer beware)

People can't really give you the answer when you haven't clearly defined either of those measures you're asking for. Yes its an energy boat, and a fairly tough fighter, but if you're expecting something unique invest in a Hero or a meta. Since when people generally refer to "Playable" they think in terms of meta builds.

Playable? Its playable with or without XL, with LL or PPC or a mass of lasers. AMS is quite handy, dual AMS is even better, Radar Deprivation and seismic and/or target gathering is useful for ambush and CQB. Jump jets pretty much mandatory since it is a "Grasshopper" and bugs that don't jump tend to die a horrible death.

Edited by rolly, 04 December 2015 - 09:30 AM.

[Bud Crue]

rolly, on 04 December 2015 - 08:35 AM, said:

Define "Unique" and "Playable"?

Sorry, I thought I was being fairly clear. To me "unique" speaks for itself, and I think my OP makes it even more clear: I am trying to come up with a build or builds that don't play like a Quickdraw 5K or for that matter another jumping and lighter mech. I can live with similar builds to those of non-jumping mechs, but there has to be some difference in play (e.g. the presence of jump jets. See posts above). Such builds though similar in weapons load out, are nevertheless unique in that they have jump jets and thus offer a bit of distinctiveness.

As to the modifier of "playable" I am merely trying to avoid the ever helpful suggestions of "try running it with 8 flammers!" or something similarly ridiculous.

[rolly]

The thing is nothing is really "unique" anymore. With the stupid mechanic of having to collect three chassis every unique build or chassis is close or copy of another. Even quirks are overused.

8 flamers - well that's unique and playable

What works - Pulse lasers lots of them. 6 does wonders. 5N is good but will take a lot of beating to its CT while you pump gigawatts of light into people. I keep one PPC just for giggles and suppression. ML's will do, same with LL's, but the real keeper is the CT laser and additional AMS. The Head SRM is usually for zombing ™ I wouldn't go less than a SRM-4 and a LRM-5 is really just for something to shoot to pass the time.

Jump jets on a grasshopper are pretty mandatory, its not a hit and run like the Quickdraw. Again playable: whats your play style? I hate CQB but in the Grasshopper its fun, especially on home turf like the Bog.

I'm simply saying that getting unique and playable builds is really a non issue. The GHR has its limits and due to the silly chassis thing. Its really down to design and what you like.

GHR runs great without XL and JJ is a must. Its hard to kill and fun in CQB. Its too tall and lanky for long range sniping and because its 70 tons its certainly not agile as the Quickdraw is. The head SRM is a unique bonus.

[Bud Crue]

Thanks for the ideas rolly.

[CMetz]

GHR-5H- XL 325, 2 LPL high mount, 5 ML.

Play it like it was designed in table top- Hit with an alpha and hop to fade, wash, rinse, repeat.

Its my best mech, far and away.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Here, let me help with this.


The GHR-5J has the highest engine cap, so you can make it the fastest hopper, more jets for a jumpier hopper, and dual AMS. You could also pair ERLLs with an LRM-5 for more support shenanigans (Missiles Incoming!) Finally, the CT durability is boosted noticeably, encouraging a Standard engine.

In my case, I leaned on the jets and AMS, resulting in the GHR-5J Amber.

Dual AMS and dual CASE with Std engine makes for good durability, and the ERLL left arm is good for peeking- and if I'm stuck at brawl range, I shield with it so I can fight with the medium lasers. It tends to run a bit hot, so I suspect others might drop jets and CASE for more DHS.


The 5H has stronger advantages in heat generation and energy range, making it a better mid-to-long range combatant, or a nice brawler with a little extra range.

I made the GHR-5H Jiminy. It's admittedly a weird choice, using the ERLL in the CT and the six medium lasers, but I find it keeps cool at range, moves fast enough to take cover, and brawls pretty well.

Other than probably moving the ERLL to an arm for peeking, I'm not really sure what others would do with this build.


The 5N has laser duration buffs and side torso durability boosting, which encourages the use of larger lasers and an XL engine. It also has more arm hardpoints than the 5H. This makes it a great hide-and-peek shooter from a distance, particularly with the second and higher mount on the right torso, but can also be used with pulse lasers for a really nasty pinpoint brawler.

I made the GHR-5N Volcarona, which does a little of all of these. I used to have a PPC in the right torso, but swapped it for an ERLL and Beagle for teamplay advantage. Also an extra half tonne of AMS ammo.

I expect others would just boat LPLs or ERLLs on this thing, just because boating, which is fine if you like that.


The 5P has only torso energy hardpoints, which makes it less wobbly to aim and better for unison fire, and also has the best torso durability buffs on both the center and side torso components. This gives you the freedom to choose between XL and Standard engines- with the high second hardpoint in each side torso, you can easily set this guy up with shoulder sniping AND brawling if you use an XL, or as a super-durable jumping laser brawler with a Standard.

I did the former with the GHR-5P Fickle Freddy.



Each of these hoppers plays differently, though not completely differently, and they all work quite reliably. Most of my sudden deaths in them are down to my own misreading of the situation, over-focus, or just bad luck.

[Bud Crue]

Quickdraw Crobat,

Thanks for the ideas. I think the problem I am having is that I, for some reason, feel like the Hopper is destined to be a brawler so I am obsessing with trying to shove std engines in the thing. You and others have convinced me that I need to save my c-bills and get some XLs to make these things shine...or at least have some distinction. I think however that I will likely retain my Jumping 5ss build (running 7MPL in the 5H with a std 300) and my jumping 1x bulid (8ML and a std 325 in the 5N). Once I have the c-bills I will do a max engine build of some sort in the J, but I can't imagine using ERLL though, given the low and predominate arm mounts, despite the quirk. That leaves the 5P. Will give your build a shot once I have the engine. Thanks.

[Wildstreak]

Having used 3 of them, either you run XL but try to stay out of close range and give yourself a ranged poke with LLs/ERLLs/PPCs or run a STD Brawler.
That's really it to all of them.
The Crab is more versatile in builds than the Grasshopper.

[Rogue Jedi]

Bud Crue, on 04 December 2015 - 08:55 AM, said:

Sorry, I thought I was being fairly clear. To me "unique" speaks for itself

unique literally means one of a kind, in this context it suggests a build no-one else is using, has ever used or will ever use besides you, having a build posted in the forums almost guarantees it will not be unique.

I am sorry but it is impossible to guarantee the build is unique, best ways to increase the odds of it being unique are things like a build which is unusable hot, having spare tonnage, a comically small engine, no armor or better yet a combination of those things however that is still no guarantee it would be unique, it also means they are not playable, the only way to guarantee a build is playable is to play it to test it out but as soon as someone else has tried a build it is no longer unique,

Do you see the problem and why you were asked for clarification?

[HelBound]

I've been known to run a 3 Grasshopper deck for CW.

GHR-5N
-STD 320
-8 medium pulse lasers
*Massive pin point damage, great for knocking off clan side torso's
*Runs hot but manageable

GHR-5H
-STD 300
-4 large Lasers
*Runs hot but manageable
*Depending on the game I'll either run AMS or 2 small lasers (arm mounted)
*Great for focusing down targets with your lance, the high torso slots and mech height make it nice for firing over lance mates during the march.

GHR-5J®
-STD 300
-2 Large Pulse Lasers
-2 Medium Pulse Lasers
-2x AMS
-4x JJ

If you want a unique build no one else runs just max out the engine and fill each hardpoint with TAG and NARC.

Edited by HelBound, 07 December 2015 - 06:18 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Rogue Jedi, on 07 December 2015 - 05:52 AM, said:

Do you see the problem and why you were asked for clarification?

Yes I understand why clarification was asked for...which is why I provided said clarification in the same post that you quoted.

"I am trying to come up with a build or builds that don't play like a Quickdraw 5K or for that matter another jumping and lighter mech. I can live with similar builds to those of non-jumping mechs, but there has to be some difference in play (e.g. the presence of jump jets. See posts above). Such builds though similar in weapons load out, are nevertheless unique in that they have jump jets and thus offer a bit of distinctiveness.

Moreover, even in my original post I concluded with:

"TLDR: please give me your build suggestions for a JJ capable Hopper that is playable and ideally a bit different than other mechs."

So while I admit I should have used a different word than "unique" in the title of the thread, I also apparently erred in thinking that people might actually read some bit of my actual post. Alas, again my errors are legion here.

[xengk]

Bud Crue, on 07 December 2015 - 04:47 AM, said:

Quickdraw Crobat,

Thanks for the ideas. I think the problem I am having is that I, for some reason, feel like the Hopper is destined to be a brawler so I am obsessing with trying to shove std engines in the thing.

Im one of those weird pilot that use the hopper for laser brawling.
GHR-5N Swamp Bug
The single PPC+JJ for poking over the shoulder of friendly to popshot a target.
4 ML as primary weapon, with the SPL throw in during face hugging session.
JJ for tight turn and spreading damage all over the mech.
4x ML
3x SPL
1x PPC
STD 300
17 DHS
4 JJ

My GHR-5J is an oddball. Works as an oversize escort and AMS cover for Assault and Heavy lance.
2x ML
2x MPL
1x LPL
1x LRM5
2x AMS
XL 350
4 JJ
BAP

And a vanilla GHR-5H
5x ML
2x LPL
STD 300
16 DHS
3 JJ

[WrathOfDeadguy]

My 4xLL 2xML 5J, which is currently the only Hopper I keep an engine in because I'm just not much for heavies. I've had decent results with this one, though. This is what I had on it before it settled into its final config.

[William Slayer]

Face Melting. That is something the Grasshopper is very good at. All those laser hardpoints and a heavy chassis lets you vomit like a Clanner! I kept to a very cheap and simple build for each of my variants for the Tukayyid tournament. I like to think of the Grasshopper like a 70 Ton Hunchback Workhorse. 3 LL and fill the other slots with Mediums. A 300 STD or 320 STD engine and jumpjets if you can squeeze them in around the DHS. Pinpoint alphas with the arms locked were surprisingly easy, and I found myself opening the enemy CT for my team to exploit as I backed off to cool down. It was a very effective strategy that we rinsed and repeated over and over. I don't own the Black Knight due to its extra 5 tons making it difficult to squeeze into my CW dropdecks...

Just my 2 C-Bills...

[Bud Crue]

Thanks for all the useful suggestions. Like I indicated previously I think I will keep the ML and MPL boat builds mentioned above.

For the J I ended up with a 2JJ, 4LL, 2AMS plus a Beagle, running an XL 350. Running it as an assualt lance support build. Have already had some great matches with it and noticed that having the weapons in the arms is a huge deal for this mech (can shoot down on alpine!). Really fun thus far.

For my sniper/poking build I went with a 4JJ, 3ERLL, 2MPL, 2ML, AMS, Beagle and an XL325. I know it is probably stupid, but I may drop the back up weapons to just 3ML and use the extra tonnage and single crit to put in a CC for extra zoom and component focusing potential.

[William Slayer]

As always the most important thing is that it's FUN for you! Hope you get lots of entertainment out of the "Hoppers"!

o7

[Xaechireon]

I run 4 SPLa, 2 MPLa and SRM2 in my grasshopper 5J, with all 6 jumpjets and a STD 320 engine. I don't really use the MPLs until I zombie. Obviously its a very short range brawling build, which I find grasshoppers to be better suited for than quickdraws, which IMO are better for harassment. I only have 2 quickdraws and don't play them that much though, so don't take my word for it.