103 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

Catalina Steiner, on 29 December 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

I can't remember starting a whine thread before but this time it's needed. I have plenty of Assault Mechs to master (Executioners, Maulers, my new Heavy Metal) but Assaults are impossible to play right now. I lost most of my matches and died in enemy fire, being ambushed without doing anything.

Last match we lost in Caustic Valley, losing all three assaults in the first two minutes. I know how to drive an Assault and I know how to escape from enemy flanking in the beginning but there is no chance.

I have no other choice then to stop mastering my Assaults and try another faster class. I know it's common to have crappy matches in tournament times but... it was never that bad.

By the way, I'm talking about the solo queue. I don't need advices how to play mechs and I don't need advices to play group queue or join an unit. This thread is just for crying my eyes out, okay?

It has nothing to do with assaults, it has to do with poor players who think if you're not "fast enough" you're just "bait".

Trust me, it's Tier 3 and below that you run into this more often. Most of the top tier players know it's not generally a good idea to just abandon 50% (or more) of your team's firepower and armor.

Tombstoner, on 29 December 2015 - 02:47 PM, said:

Personally i see this as a testament to how broken this game is in its current state.

Assault mechs have been forced to shift rear armor to the front. Armor levels that used to be more then some mechs front CT.

you really, honestly, and truly believe that this started because of rear armor on assaults...?

EDIT:
Also I can't think of a single player I play with that would EVER (from CB until now) put that much armor on their rear. Even Btech designs and stock builds don't do that. If you were doing that, I'd suggest seriously taking a look at your builds and redesigning them honestly. I'm not saying that to be a douche, I'm just honestly trying to give you some tips on mech builds.
Putting that much armor into your rear and doing so as your "normal" build is asking not to do well in the long run.

Edited by Sandpit, 29 December 2015 - 06:06 PM.

[Chados]

I dusted off a Victor Dragon Slayer (AC/10, 2xLPL, XL330) for the PuG queue tonight. First drop in the VTR since October. It is my second-most dropped-in mech overall.

Noticed the speed tweak reduction and I did not like it. Speed is about 71kph, not bad but not as good as it was. They didn't change its other quirks too much and it never was all that quirked in the first place. Victors are about where they were in a lot of ways, at least the Dragon Slayer is. They still need to be played like a 65 ton heavy. They can hover jet and poptart a little; I did it on the platform on Crimson Strait. Still fairly mobile in all six dimensions. They need some structure buffs, in my opinion.

[Lyoto Machida]

Tombstoner, on 29 December 2015 - 02:47 PM, said:

Personally i see this as a testament to how broken this game is in its current state.

Assault mechs have been forced to shift rear armor to the front. Armor levels that used to be more then some mechs front CT.

When PGI linked torso turn rate to engine size.... something not in TT. It never compensated anything. All mechs should have the same torso turn rate. Why. 10% on the mech weight is for internals... that means actuators and stuff. it scales linearly. 100 ton mechs need more powerful internals to get the same performance as a 20 ton mech. That's 10% of the mechs tonnage.

The port from TT to FPS is INCOMPLETE....PGI has fubard this whole game except for the art work. That's top notch.

Sandpit, on 29 December 2015 - 05:58 PM, said:

It has nothing to do with assaults, it has to do with poor players who think if you're not "fast enough" you're just "bait".

Trust me, it's Tier 3 and below that you run into this more often. Most of the top tier players know it's not generally a good idea to just abandon 50% (or more) of your team's firepower and armor.


you really, honestly, and truly believe that this started because of rear armor on assaults...?

EDIT:
Also I can't think of a single player I play with that would EVER (from CB until now) put that much armor on their rear. Even Btech designs and stock builds don't do that. If you were doing that, I'd suggest seriously taking a look at your builds and redesigning them honestly. I'm not saying that to be a douche, I'm just honestly trying to give you some tips on mech builds.
Putting that much armor into your rear and doing so as your "normal" build is asking not to do well in the long run.

How is he wrong though? A Stock AS7-D has 28 pts to the rear CT (in MWO). A stock JR7-D (in MWO) has 20 pts to the front CT.

[Sandpit]

Lyoto Machida, on 29 December 2015 - 06:37 PM, said:

How is he wrong though? A Stock AS7-D has 28 pts to the rear CT (in MWO). A stock JR7-D (in MWO) has 20 pts to the front CT.

I just explained it in the above post?
Builds like that aren't going to do well overall, hence the tip to drop some of that rear armor.

I don't even know why you're playing devil's advocate on this one. I've played against you and I know for a fact you dont' carry armor distribution like that and I'm willing to bet not many (if any) in your unit do that as well.

So why would you in any way try to encourage others, condone, promote, etc. bad building techniques like that to others?

I never EVER said he was wrong, I offered some advice on mecvh building.

This is exactly the kind of attitude I don't get. Did I ANYwhere in my post demean, attempt to embarras, shame, or otherwise imply that the player was "wrong" or "bad"?
No, I did not. I dont' know why you would even imply that.

And no, the Atlas stock build does NOT (nor does any other Btech stock build) have that much rear armor. Not one, but that's completely beside the point here.

I know you agree with what I'm saying because I've seen your builds, seen your posts, etc. SO why in the heck would you even attempt to say something like this instead of giving pointers, tips, and advice of your own, instead of trying to make it look like someone else who did just that is trying to do some sort of "you're bad bleh" crap?

http://www.sarna.net...ory:BattleMechs
you're more than welcome to find me a battlemech in stock config that has that kinds of armor distribution. Good luck though.

You don't put 28 points of armor on your rear armor and you know it. It also has absolutely nothing to do with the whole nascar "strategy"

That seems to have come about more from impatient players thinking a 15 minute match is going "too slow" if you're not in the big push/brawl/firefight in the first 3 minutes of the game.

[Slow and Decrepit]

Khobai, on 29 December 2015 - 04:52 PM, said:

the main problem with assaults is that heavies are outright better

heavies get better hit boxes, better agility and speed, and the same firepower...

theres literally no reason to use assault mechs anymore



Because assaults give up so much agility and speed compared to heavies, the following should be TRUE:

1) assaults should have significantly better heat dissipation and heat capacity than heavies. But because external DHS are so garbage, heavies and assaults both hit the same heat cap, so assaults have no firepower advantage over heavies whatsoever. The gauss nerf made this problem WAY worse because gauss was the only weapon assaults could use to increase their firepower without significantly increasing heat.

2) assaults should have significantly better durability than heavies. again this isnt the case because assaults have slow torso twist and huge hit boxes which makes it harder to distribute damage evenly across different locations, which results in assaults being less durable than heavies. Having lots of armor isnt useful unless you can get the damage to spread out... which most assaults CANT DO.

They really need to revamp the skill trees so each weight class gets its own skill tree. Heavies should fear assaults but right now assaults are a joke compared to heavies.

Never has been so True as of Now!

[Idealsuspect]

FrontGuard, on 29 December 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

I started a new account just for that reason. I was getting slaughtered in my precious Dires and I would hear peeps in a light or medium say Assaults are worthless. I'm not sure what changed, but something has.
My new account is all Heaves

Lol what the point with create multiple accounts... you absoluty want unlock " advanced sismic " or others modules x10 times?
Don't wanna share your modules between lights medium or others weight class....?

Wanna add your friend how many time ? x10 too ?

[Lyoto Machida]

Sandpit, on 29 December 2015 - 06:52 PM, said:

I just explained it in the above post?
Builds like that aren't going to do well overall, hence the tip to drop some of that rear armor.

I don't even know why you're playing devil's advocate on this one. I've played against you and I know for a fact you dont' carry armor distribution like that and I'm willing to bet not many (if any) in your unit do that as well.

So why would you in any way try to encourage others, condone, promote, etc. bad building techniques like that to others?

I never EVER said he was wrong, I offered some advice on mecvh building.

This is exactly the kind of attitude I don't get. Did I ANYwhere in my post demean, attempt to embarras, shame, or otherwise imply that the player was "wrong" or "bad"?
No, I did not. I dont' know why you would even imply that.

And no, the Atlas stock build does NOT (nor does any other Btech stock build) have that much rear armor. Not one, but that's completely beside the point here.

I know you agree with what I'm saying because I've seen your builds, seen your posts, etc. SO why in the heck would you even attempt to say something like this instead of giving pointers, tips, and advice of your own, instead of trying to make it look like someone else who did just that is trying to do some sort of "you're bad bleh" crap?

http://www.sarna.net...ory:BattleMechs
you're more than welcome to find me a battlemech in stock config that has that kinds of armor distribution. Good luck though.

You don't put 28 points of armor on your rear armor and you know it. It also has absolutely nothing to do with the whole nascar "strategy"

That seems to have come about more from impatient players thinking a 15 minute match is going "too slow" if you're not in the big push/brawl/firefight in the first 3 minutes of the game.

I'm not advocating running that kind of rear armor in any way, nor was I implying that you were attempting to demean him in any way. What I was pointing out is that he is correct in stating that some mechs in TT have more CT rear armor than other mechs have in total front CT armor. I'm going off the inflated MWO armor figures, of course.

You were saying that stock builds in TT don't do that kind of distribution but they do. Check page 25 for the Atlas D...47 CT armor and 14 CT rear armor (the ratio is 3.357).

http://bg.battletech...ters.pdf?bab45d

Stock Atlas in Smurfy is 94/28...again, 3.357 ratio.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ab#i=16&l=stock

Is it advisable to run that type of distribution here? No, but that's how the mech is set up stock (in both TT and MWO).

[SkaerKrow]

Interesting topic. I've derped up my fair share of games in my Assaults, but lately I've really been feeling like the rest of the team has been ignoring the Assault lance (which is even worse when the Assault lance breaks up for some reason). Glad to know that it's not just me.

[Scar Glamour]

I can't speak for all assaults, but dakka DWFs, LPL (and even lurm) WHKs, AC20/PPC Misery, SRM/LPL STK-5M, and AC20/SRM Atlai are as fun as ever. Atlai even more so after the recent changes. Even HGN-IIC isn't half as bad as its hardpoints would suggest.

So it must be bad luck in PUGs. Too many Tier 2 scrubs running around lately.

[El Bandito]

Caustic map automatically lowers PuG IQ by 50 points.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

cSand, on 29 December 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

When I drive a big slow guy I ask a few lights or mediums to cover my *** and usually some kind folks will come help me out

my last game:

Quote

Never mind, I think I know hoe you feel. I just was in a pub game where I literally told the rest of my team four times where the enemy was, dropped a UAV and SHOWED them where they were, then got killed by their entire team, but my team decided to chase one light while they got slaughtered from behind -.-

I had to log off for the night because ppl are just too stupid right now

[1Grimbane]

i get the nascaring away deal been happening lately but really aside from that kinda the opposite for me honestly.... post patch all 5 atlas's are online as well as my banshees and battle masters, i've even brought misery out to play. the as7 loyalty atlas i have with 4 srm6 artemis on same trigger as my ac20 is fun.... both my battlemaster's are set up with 4 lrg lasers one 4 er lrg they are fun as well and one can't forget the 3 ac5 banshee...

[adamts01]

CJ Daxion, on 29 December 2015 - 01:56 PM, said:

well seeing the people almost always go counter clockwise.. Why don't they just flop the spawns? or at least stick the assaults in the middle spawn.. that has to be an easy way to at least attempt getting left behind..


In fact all maps should have assaults start in the middle, as just about every map that would give them a fighting chance from any early light rush..

How dare you use logic on the internet

[VinJade]

I try my best to stick with the Assaults the best I can with my Adder but I have to slow down a lot and being a Missile support load out it tends to get tricky(I have ER Large/medium Lasers to help out when I can) as sometimes I get an Atlas from my side ether running into me or taking my lasers to the back.

which then I get yelled at....
makes it hard to want to help assault...

[Random Carnage]

T1 players are just as happy to abandon their fatties as anyone else. Asking for an assist on voip rarely makes any difference. 9/10 my Dire is on it's own. I try to keep up (at 53kph). Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but mostly the decision is one of luck with regard to which way the faster mechs flow during a game (both ours and theirs).

The best part is when My Dire gets isolated and ***** doing relatively low damage overall, and some clown feels the need at the end of the game to crow how they out scored a Dire for damage. Well **** dude, you ran off like a little ***** and hung me out to dry. Good job.

[Rhent]

When you get Caustic, bring up reversing Nascar at the halfway point so you can kill their lifths. Generally everyone will be on board. And you won't die as an assault and you are leading the charge.

[Random Carnage]

Rhent, on 30 December 2015 - 02:11 AM, said:

When you get Caustic, bring up reversing Nascar at the halfway point so you can kill their lifths. Generally everyone will be on board. And you won't die as an assault and you are leading the charge.

You don't play 53kph mechs, do you?

In Caustic, if I get the left side drop, I can't even make it to the low ground let alont the cover of the hill before a fast red lance is cresting the corner and ******* me up. And no, No blue help is to be had from our fast mechs because they're too busy point whoring the red assaults.

Edited by Random Carnage, 30 December 2015 - 02:19 AM.

[Nuebot]

I'd probably escort more assaults in solo drop queues if they stopped shooting me. This is a huge part of why I tend to just ********** to try and isolate and distract any lingering LRM mobiles I can, because the leading cause of my death seems to be team damage. Even if I'm being careful to avoid my team's line of fire there's always one guy who just blasts the whole area and whoops there go my arms. I've been running towards cover and had an assault just blast me full in the cockpit with his whole load of lasers. It's hard to want to asisst in this game.

[VinJade]

I never liked how some faster mechs tend to run off, there are mechs that work well as support such as the Hunchbacks and some swaybacks should be used as bodyguards for assaults.

Missile boats can also aid assaults by firing at in coming targets to 'soften' them up and as long as the fire support has some decent secondary weapons they can also dish out pain that way when they are too close for LRMs to be used.

the only time I ever race a head is in my mist lynx to scout ahead or try and draw some away by 'capturing' their base.

which has work well, drew a KC and a couple of mediums away from the fight and iirc a beat up Atlas & highlander managed to pick off a few that didn't come after me.

though my mech became scrap not long after first few seconds after encounter.

@ Nuebot
I feel your pain.

Edited by VinJade, 30 December 2015 - 02:40 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

It is a bummer. In solo queue I try to keep my Assaults high 60kph or faster (if I run them at all).

For slower assaults, the team has to commit to protection, but trying to get a team to do that is difficult. If only one mech responds to help an assault, that is just 2 dead mechs instead of 1. The team needs to be involved and PUGs are notoriously in it for themselves.

Like I said, I just avoid running slow assaults all together so I don't have to worry as much.