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Origin Mech Stats From Tourney


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#41 Jman5

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 02:57 PM

I have barely played the missile and laser boats, but I have played the 4 ballistic one regularly since its been released. My take on the mech as a whole is that you can do well with it, but it's unforgiving.

The Good
  • The IIC rules can't be understated. It can get away with much more firepower than its medium peers.
  • Clan Tech is often better. The weight and space saving are both points in its favor.
  • If you can survive intact you can put out a huge amount of damage.
The Bad
  • You are perpetually 1-2 mistakes away from losing your weapons or even dying. It feels like we're back in the old days right after Clans were released but before quirks were introduced.
  • The low pitch range makes fighting on inclines challenging. So many times I engage an enemy only to realize my mech can't crane its neck high enough to fire back.

If it were up to me, I would leave the IIC alone and focus on nerfing other mechs. However PGI seems reluctant to do this. So if we gotta powercreep to reach parity, I guess we can give it some hitpoint quirks on the torsos and a pitch increase.

#42 Wintersdark

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 03:02 PM

View PostJman5, on 30 December 2015 - 02:57 PM, said:

I have barely played the missile and laser boats, but I have played the 4 ballistic one regularly since its been released. My take on the mech as a whole is that you can do well with it, but it's unforgiving.

The Good
  • The IIC rules can't be understated. It can get away with much more firepower than its medium peers.
  • Clan Tech is often better. The weight and space saving are both points in its favor.
  • If you can survive intact you can put out a huge amount of damage.
The Bad
  • You are perpetually 1-2 mistakes away from losing your weapons or even dying. It feels like we're back in the old days right after Clans were released but before quirks were introduced.
  • The low pitch range makes fighting on inclines challenging. So many times I engage an enemy only to realize my mech can't crane its neck high enough to fire back.
If it were up to me, I would leave the IIC alone and focus on nerfing other mechs. However PGI seems reluctant to do this. So if we gotta powercreep to reach parity, I guess we can give it some hitpoint quirks on the torsos and a pitch increase.

A pitch increase barely qualifies as a powercreep sort of buff. The limited pitch is less a balance factor than a crucial design flaw. To my knowledge, there's nothing else in the game so limited in vertical reach with ALL it's weapons. It's not like the HBK-IIC has massive strengths offsetting that. Clan tech is (usually) better (in that it's lighter and smaller), but in this case it's easily offset by the lack of defensive quirks the IS versions have.

The pitch... The pitch is the real problem with the mech, not even in comparing it with other mechs but simply in using it.

Our maps have come to have a great deal of verticality to them, if I may invent a word. It's not like it's unusual to engage mechs on different elevations. Most mechs have either sufficient pitch to deal with at least minor elevation changes, or some arm mounted weapons to reach up, if the pilot elects to use those hardpoints. The HBK-IIC, early adopter variant aside, simply lacks both.

#43 Tarogato

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 03:18 PM

Dunno why people allergic to stats...

I would rather listen to somebody who can prove that they at least know what they're doing. They are more likely to have an understanding on the intricacies of something than somebody who has nothing or just less to show.

"Stats are irrelevant to discussion"

... not really. Which player would you rather trust, the one with a 3.5 KDR in solo queue, or the one with a 0.90 KDR? Are there exceptions? Of course. But listen to what the guy has to say, and if you agree and he has the stats to support that he knows what he's talking about, all the better. If you disagree but he has the stats to support himself, then you have to access yourself, "What's up here? This is strange."

#44 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 03:53 PM

View PostTarogato, on 30 December 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

Dunno why people allergic to stats...

I would rather listen to somebody who can prove that they at least know what they're doing. They are more likely to have an understanding on the intricacies of something than somebody who has nothing or just less to show.

"Stats are irrelevant to discussion"

... not really. Which player would you rather trust, the one with a 3.5 KDR in solo queue, or the one with a 0.90 KDR? Are there exceptions? Of course. But listen to what the guy has to say, and if you agree and he has the stats to support that he knows what he's talking about, all the better. If you disagree but he has the stats to support himself, then you have to access yourself, "What's up here? This is strange."

I'll take the player who posts a logical cogent argument bolstered by details, facts, and figures regardless their Epeen Status.

But then, I'm sort of results oriented by nature, and not too caring about cults of personality, to begin with. I'll listen to the homeless guy under the bridge over the politician, if the homeless guy has something useful to say.

Knowing how to play a game does not equate to automatically knowing how to fix it. Lots of race car drivers are mediocre mechanics at best, and most pit chiefs aren't that great of race drivers...or they would be a driver, instead (cuz that's where the money and glory is). In lots of games, the actual Devs are often mediocre players. They usually still know what is going on in the game better than the LEET players do.

So Stats are not valueless, or hated, but in themselves are really not that statistically relevant, what VOLT, me or you can do. There's a reason telemetry and stats aren't compiled by only looking to the 1%.

#45 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 03:58 PM

View PostJman5, on 30 December 2015 - 02:57 PM, said:

I have barely played the missile and laser boats, but I have played the 4 ballistic one regularly since its been released. My take on the mech as a whole is that you can do well with it, but it's unforgiving.

The Good
  • The IIC rules can't be understated. It can get away with much more firepower than its medium peers.
  • Clan Tech is often better. The weight and space saving are both points in its favor.
  • If you can survive intact you can put out a huge amount of damage.
The Bad
  • You are perpetually 1-2 mistakes away from losing your weapons or even dying. It feels like we're back in the old days right after Clans were released but before quirks were introduced.
  • The low pitch range makes fighting on inclines challenging. So many times I engage an enemy only to realize my mech can't crane its neck high enough to fire back.
If it were up to me, I would leave the IIC alone and focus on nerfing other mechs. However PGI seems reluctant to do this. So if we gotta powercreep to reach parity, I guess we can give it some hitpoint quirks on the torsos and a pitch increase.

Eh, I think we need a mix of both. There are certainly certain "alpha wolf" mechs that need intelligent nerfs applied... but I do think the IICs need mild love too (and a lot of Clan Mechs that are not the ACH, SCR, HBR, EBJ, TBR, DWF need some love, IMO, too).

But I'm pretty glad to see my concerns about the limited pitch angle confirmed by you. That does seem to be a consensus issue with the HBK-IIC.

I'd be content with the upcoming hitbox change a pitch buff, TBH, then see how it goes. My gut is telling me it will probably need a little structure support on the STs still, but I do prefer to take it one step at a time.

#46 Bobzilla

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 04:29 PM

Proving you can get max performance from a chassis, then giving opinions on it, is useful.

Posting his stats give context.

A casual player's opinion is just as useful, but in a different context.

If people realised this, they wouldn't get petty when OP posts results/stats.


After all, we all agree the game in lower tiers is completely different than the higher tiers (heck, it's different during events).

#47 V O L T R O N

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Posted 31 December 2015 - 05:06 AM

Ok, you want my breakdowns and when what I get where... So I started leveling them all without making any upgrades at all. Just to see how they would perform. I started with the ballistic variant. The 2c, then the B, then the A last. I did this just to get them all in the top 5. I would have figured the energy one would have been the hardest. Easiest to get high scores, but also have the best players among that bracket.

HUNCHBACK IIC .- I first used the trial build. Cant exactly remember what it was, but it was ****. You cant use the xl200's The mechs go way too slow and are too vulnerable. I immediately bought the largest engine inside of it that I could to test it that way. I believe I came up with 2 ml 3 uac5 build first. It was hot, so I got rid of the lasers. The uacs were getting me good distance good range. Allowing me to make the assist in the tourney that I needed with this fragile mech, but my best matches were topping out at 750 with 3 uac5s and ammo. I switched to the xl 255 to give me more ammo at a later date. Still wasnt working. I found myself not being able to get the solo kills spreading so much damage. Was a good build none the less. Then I tried 2 uac10s and 2 ml, a build that everyone was using including McGral18 that I had asked him what he was using. Im not much into generic builds so....Was also VERY hot and only worked on certain maps(unicorn drops/maps that fit your mech).

On the last day *Monday, I asked Jman for his build. Which was 2 uac10s 2 mg 2 sl. I loved the idea of it and immediately got two matches in a row that counted. One was my best match, thanks Jman. The best part about his build is that it was able to sustain damage while running hot, which the uac10s are. The 5's didnt provide enough ammo as the 10's ammo does which allowed me to get higher scores. I call these "unicorn" matches.

HUNCHBACK IIC B - This mech I actually had the most fun with out of all the variants. I found the ballistic one the most tedious as you can tell by matches played. This one I found the most fun because of the builds I came up with. Even thou you can look at the stats and see I played it the least, this was just because of the leader board. I didnt have to play it as much as the others. This is why I saved the energy one for last.

My first build was the trial build, which just needed a few upgrades and armor to actually be ran with the streak build. I changed the streak build from 4 ssrm6's to changing 1 of them to a 2, the medium lasers to small lasers, and while the pop tart hovers great with 4 jjs, I wasnt able to get solo kills or kill most damage dealt with this mech because of how much it spread damage. Now I did have some success hunting lights first and then waiting to engage the assaults getting the solo kills. Was way too much work. Changed it over to an even more laughable build, but one I had the most fun with out of all the builds this weekend. Which was 1 narc 1 1/2 tons of ammo, xl 255, 4jjs 2 lrm 15s and 1 5 with Artemis. I also had a bap and ammo and 2 ml. I had success on every map nearly with this build. There wasnt much ecm running around and the matches were quite strange at first. I was getting plenty of narcs in, lrming targets pretty easily. However I was capping out at about 5th place and I knew that I was just going to have to switch to the 4 srm 6 with Artemis build 8 tons of ammo and xl 275. This allowed me to get the solo kills and maximize my damage quicker. Which I waited for this build on the last day as well with the build Jman got me.

Hunchback IIC A - The energy hunchy, the easiest mech to get high scores because of pin-point damage at range. You can tell by most of the scores and my k/d ratio this is so. I was dreading having to run the meta. I dont like meta, but I will run it. I put the big engine in it and 2 lp 4 ml. WAAAAY TOO HOT. Especially while leveling it. Then switched it to 1lp and 5 ml. I saw people trying that. I was seeing with the lp builds and ml that too much of my DHS were going in my arms and I was losing heat. Then I switched to my favorite build for this mech, but a build that didnt get me to the top. Which was the poptart 2 er ppc 5 sl 4 jjs and 9 dhs. This build was amazing on all maps and ranges. It just wasnt getting me to the top. I ran into psichiholic on Sunday and he was running 6 mp. I said to myself, I know pulse lasers register the best but dammit I wanted to make it up there without being boring, but I ended up running psichis build, which is only good thou for certain maps with it being that hot and distances. Was surprisingly heat efficient at times thou.

So I went threw all weapon systems and changed engines for the hunchies. I wont breakdown the Orion except for telling you that I used LP and Streak 6's for the 6th place. The ballistic was most tedious judging by time played and the spray and pray damage and kills. The energy one was the most meta and I had much fun with it, and at the end of the day the missile one I found to be equally as interesting as the energy but less meta viable. HUNCHBACK IIC HBK-IIC 138 74 64 1.16 139 80 1.74 68,177 195,724 14:12:49
HUNCHBACK IIC HBK-IIC-A 107 58 49 1.18 166 53 3.13 61,311 180,691 11:29:18
HUNCHBACK IIC HBK-IIC-B 94 46 47 0.98 98 52 1.88 48,175 142,586 09:55:30

Edited by V O L T R O N, 31 December 2015 - 05:07 AM.


#48 V O L T R O N

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Posted 31 December 2015 - 01:13 PM

Another build I used for a couple hours on the IIC prime i guess. Was 2 uac5s 2 mp 2 mg. That was consitantly good and fun on all maps, just not getting me my unicorn.

#49 Mechwarrior Buddah

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Posted 31 December 2015 - 01:20 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 30 December 2015 - 06:44 AM, said:

I agree they need minor tweaks.

HBK is getting the hitbox tweak, which should help a tiny bit.

I think they all need similar mobility to their counterparts.

The HBK in particular I think needs it's Torso Pitch increased drastically, to 30-35º, similar to a Trebuchet. Unless one has the early adopter model with arm weapons it is impossible to shoot down UAVs closer than 500ish meters, and smart lights can hug your legs and you can't shoot them. That makes some sense on a 95 ton deathstar...less on a 50 ton mech.

I'd prefer to see it done in an iterative manner.... and give those tweaks at least 1 patch cycle. If they are still lacking, then some targeted structure buffs might be needed.

I certainly don't desire to see ANY offensive quirks added.

Also, don't take this wrong, but posting your Tournament Placements every place you can really does nothing to bolster your argument. Most people find an actual detailed and well reasoned argument more compelling than Epeen Badges and Stats. It really doesn't mark you as more of an "authority" for most people.


hbks need a way so their torsoes dont die in a single shot but I dont see it happening. I have yet to die in any of the hbk iics by any way other than the enemy removing both torsoes by merely looking at me harshly





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