31 replies to this topic

[Luminis]

Hello everyone,

Steam newb here! I recently got back into the game after playing around for a wee bit during the beta days. The game's vastly more fun now, I gotta say - I'm really enjoying myself.

Now, here's the question I want t ask: I purchased the Steam Heavy Performance Pack. Seemed like good value, being 20% off and all. The primary reason I got it, though, was the Timber Wolf with the C-Bill bonus. I’ve been a bit of a TBR fanboi for as long as I’ve known the darn the thing. I’ve used it wherever I could, be it previous MechWarrior games or the TableTop. As you might’ve guesses, I was mighty excited since everyone seemed to consider the TBR “the best ‘Mech in the game” on the forums and on Reddit. Not the primary reason to get it, but it’s a nice plus, right?

I played the Trial version of the TBR, got the TBR-A and the TBR-C(S) from the HPP. Went through a few different builds, too.

Spoiler

So far, I tried:
4x C-ERLL laser sniper
2x C-LPL + 3x C-ERML laser vomit
2x UAC/5 + X C-ERML dakke thingy
UAC/20 + 3/4x C-ERML skirmisher
2x C-LPL + UAC/10 something
Experimented with boating C-ERML and Streaks
2x C-ERLL + 3/4x C-ERMLL.
4/5x C-ERML + Gauss
2x C-ERML + 2x CERLL + Gauss
2x C-LPL + Gauss

I’ll be honest here: I don’t get why people consider the TBR the best ‘Mech in the game. Not after playing with the Thunderbolt that came with the HP Pack or the Quickdraw I got.

Playing the TBR, I’m trying to keep myself covered most of the time, peek at stuff and get a few hits with the lasers in. Should be easy enough in theory, right? Thing is, the hardpoints aren’t in the greatest of locations for that sort of stuff, unless I’m running the TBR-A (I think?) left torso – which has those negative quirks. I still generally try to stick to cover, get a good alpha strike off and retreat. I suppose this is pretty awesome if you’ve got a coordinated group, popping up from cover and pumping a volley of high-damage alphas into a single target, taking it out in an instant. In a PUG, though, that feels a little… meh?

The TDR-9SE(S) and QKD-4G I’ve got are a huge contrast. Their alphas are considerably less potent but they run way cooler. With those, I can continually push out damage and while the range is lower, I do get access to my full offensive capabilities at a singular distance. There are three primary benefits to this, as far as I can tell: First, I can actually suppress and opponent with a continued barrage of LPL fire. Second, I can operate out of cover much more effectively. Third, an opponent catching me out of position or pushing up on me isn’t nearly as devastating as I don’t need to break away to cool down as early. Add to that that the TDR and QKD feel more tanky (despite running an XL engine in the QKD) than the TBR (which has more armor on paper, I think) and those two are able to come out on top if an opponent decides to drag me into a slugfest.

In theory, I might just equip my TBR with two weapon systems to cover the longer ranges and have some sort of backup if someone engages me, but I’ve yet to find a solution I feel comfortable with. I don’t have enough slots for C-ERSMLs to pack enough of a punch, C-ERMLs run too hot, a UAC/20 with some ammo is quite heavy for that sort of thing and using the Gauss for long range, backing it up with C-ERMLs for medium/short range, feels meh due to the Gausses cooldown.

So, tl;dr: The TBR is supposedly the best ‘Mech in the game, but my TDR and QKD both feel tankier, come with a one-size-fits-all sort of weapon loadout, require less heat management and there’s no trade-off to be made between hardpoints and negative quirks. The QKD is faster, to boot.

What am I missing? Does the TBR require a coordinated group? Does it get a huge boost from being mastered/having double basic efficiencies?

[Leone]

Welcome Back!

First off, I prefer a good 5 er medium Uac 10 build myself, or a dual gauss if'n I'mma gauss at all (thanks to nerfs) or a quad lrm 10 quad er medium with tag. That said, the Madcat is not my favourite mech. I take it cuz it has more range'n my 'Goyle, and more armour'n my Blackhawks.

Oh, match up, I'll be back.

----

Okay, Back. I pretty much just play CW. Or a bit of group queue with friends. And for what it does, run with abunch clan mechs at the same speed and put out decent reliable ranged damage whilest twisting and sharing armour with the team, the TBR is a solid choice. But for any one specific thing, or for going it alone, you've prolly got better options.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 31 December 2015 - 01:40 AM.

[epikt]

The TBR is considered (one of) the best mech of the game for a mix of tankiness, mobility, useful tonnage, good hitboxes, hardpoint flexibility and location, etc. Other mechs only come up to par with it because they were buffed with quirks, and the TBR nerfed.

Oh, about your observations, there is probably the fact that a Timberwolf make a fine primary target, when other mechs (like the quickdraw... people even forgot it ever existed) might looks less dangerous, thus not being focus that much.

That being said, the best mech in the game is the mech you're the most comfortable with. For me, that's definitely not the Timberwolf - but that's the difference between a personal opinion and a somehow general consensus. Find your own "best mech in the game and be happy

[Rogue Jedi]

The Timber Wolf is considered the best Mech in the game because of its durability, mobility and versatility, this makes the TBR a great Mech, the only things it cannot do effectively are scouting and taking multiple large ballistics.

my personal best performing Mech is the Marauder, it took that crown from the TBR, however nether of those are my favorite, I much prefer the Spider, it may not be my most effective Mech but it is definitely the most fun to pilot.

the "best" Mech depends on the player, most players I know have one or more favorite chassis, a Mech which just feels right when they are piloting it, that may not be that players best performing Mech but it is a Mech they just click with, the correct combination of speed, agility, tankyness, weaponry, looks and nostalgia for him/her.

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 31 December 2015 - 09:48 AM.

[JC Daxion]

Try 2 large pulse and 3 ERML's in the timby,, and pack it with heat sinks.. As a guy that has played nothing but IS for 3500 drops, and has now run over 150 in a timby.. i can say it is one of the best mechs i've played. Which makes me feel dirty just saying.... I haven't even played with any other set up.. the energy boat is just that good.

TDR-5ss can give it a good run for its money though.. Close in on that timby and rip um apart. The TDR SE, you are either good with it, or you are not.. it is a hard mech to play IMO, and i don't do well with it.. guess i just need more PPC practice.

Edited by JC Daxion, 31 December 2015 - 09:38 AM.

[LeeNTien]

My build of TBR-C(C) is 2 C-UAC-10 and 3 ERSML. Good dps at both close and mid-ranges, with some "screen shakes" at longer ranges to scare snipers off, great heat-efficiency, enough ammo to last a while, jump-jets and speed to move about, general tankiness to take on some good 1-v-1s.
But that is not why Timber is considered "the best".
It's because you can do pretty much every possible build on it. Jumping pop-tart? All ready. Fancy some LRM? Sure. A bit of laser sniping? Not a problem. Gauss? As soon as you get the gun. Close range brawler with SRM and small pulses? Aye-aye, sir!
And it'll be very good in either of those options. May be not the best - but good enough to be afraid of.

The TDR that comes with the pack is also a very solid mech. But it can only fit lasers, and got quirks for LPLs. Same with most other mechs - they are either laking something, or just too specialized.

Edited by LeeNTien, 31 December 2015 - 10:49 AM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Bummer that you don't like it. For my part, I prefer the Ebon Jaguar.

Like most things, you have to go with the best odds when you're not sure. TBR was the BEST odds of a successful heavy mech. But you know why it's ODDS and not a SURE THING. Time to start betting on other horses, I guess...

[Moldur]

Hot clan mechs are an acquired taste definitely. Pretty much any laser vomit build (clans especially) I have to have a firegroup bound to all of my medium lasers, or what-have-you, in chainfire for when I'm too hot.

Playing clan laser vomit requires a lot of bluffing. Yeah, your alpha creates 80% heat, and if the guy you just shot at started rushing you, you might be almost helpless, but if you can strip a component or something, you're ensuring that dude and maybe his friends don't want to peek or trade you, so you'll be able to have time to cool off and do it again. Positioning plays a big part in this as well.

Having a TDR with 3 LPLs makes people go "ow" until I can destroy something, but when I've got a big clan alpha, I'm usually trying to go for the kill or neuter in one fell swoop (or at least severely dissuade them.) In safe positions, plinking everything that moves with a couple lasers is fine, but I like to keep my heat low for opportunities when I can blow off an executioner's ST, or unhunch a hunchback.

[_____]

QKD and TDR are both good mechs but in comparison...

TBR vs TDR: TBR has a build for every situation whereas TBolt is a one or two trick pony for each variant. TBR has JJs for maps like Canyon whereas the JJ TDR isn't considered one of the best variants. TBR has a better mid-range alpha. Though this isn't as important in the lower tiers, minimizing face time in the higher tiers is very important. TDR is tankier by a small margin despite having less armor, but offensively, the TBRs are stronger, and at the end of the day in MWO, offense usually prevails over defense.

TBR vs QKD: TBR is far more tanky and packs a much bigger punch at every range. The QKD will run cooler but at the cost of more face time. QKD is also far too large for its weight (blame PGI) and therefore glass-canony since most "meta" builds use an XL.

I'd say though the TBR isn't exactly new-player friendly. Not the worst mech to start with, but maybe not the best either. Once you learn to maximize damage while minimizing face time, learn to maneuver around the map to take advantage of your range while not being too far away from your team, gain better situational awareness, then I think you'll end up seeing why the TBR has an edge vs these two in the solo queue.

[Angela Kerensky]

I've been running Timberwolves and though I'm only tier 4, the 500+ damage games are quite common with a few going up 1.1k and my lowest being 250-350 damage.

Yes, you spend a lot of time doing peek and shoot but the Timberwolf does it well. It moves fast enough to let you get a nice alpha out on the enemy and with 25+ DHS it cools off pretty fast. It's just like any other mech face-to-face but you pile up the damage with the peek and shoot before moving in for the kill. It's also good for flanking as I've gotten many kills with just one good alpha to the back of distracted mechs.

Twisting is tough, but I just move the legs also to go beyond 90 degrees to increase the chances of the side torso being hit. This account is two days old and I've used nothing but Timberwolves. I already own the A and the C without any purchases done though I did get an extra day of premium from the Stocking event.

It's ridiculously good for peek and shoot but that requires a lot of awareness and good prediction on enemy movement. The penalties from the A side torso don't really bother me at all. Here are my stats on this two day old account (I'm sure better pilots can have even higher stats):

[IraqiWalker]

Luminis, on 31 December 2015 - 12:49 AM, said:

Hello everyone,

Steam newb here! I recently got back into the game after playing around for a wee bit during the beta days. The game's vastly more fun now, I gotta say - I'm really enjoying myself.

Now, here's the question I want t ask: I purchased the Steam Heavy Performance Pack. Seemed like good value, being 20% off and all. The primary reason I got it, though, was the Timber Wolf with the C-Bill bonus. I’ve been a bit of a TBR fanboi for as long as I’ve known the darn the thing. I’ve used it wherever I could, be it previous MechWarrior games or the TableTop. As you might’ve guesses, I was mighty excited since everyone seemed to consider the TBR “the best ‘Mech in the game” on the forums and on Reddit. Not the primary reason to get it, but it’s a nice plus, right?

I played the Trial version of the TBR, got the TBR-A and the TBR-C(S) from the HPP. Went through a few different builds, too.

Spoiler

So far, I tried:
4x C-ERLL laser sniper
2x C-LPL + 3x C-ERML laser vomit
2x UAC/5 + X C-ERML dakke thingy
UAC/20 + 3/4x C-ERML skirmisher
2x C-LPL + UAC/10 something
Experimented with boating C-ERML and Streaks
2x C-ERLL + 3/4x C-ERMLL.
4/5x C-ERML + Gauss
2x C-ERML + 2x CERLL + Gauss
2x C-LPL + Gauss

I’ll be honest here: I don’t get why people consider the TBR the best ‘Mech in the game. Not after playing with the Thunderbolt that came with the HP Pack or the Quickdraw I got.

Playing the TBR, I’m trying to keep myself covered most of the time, peek at stuff and get a few hits with the lasers in. Should be easy enough in theory, right? Thing is, the hardpoints aren’t in the greatest of locations for that sort of stuff, unless I’m running the TBR-A (I think?) left torso – which has those negative quirks. I still generally try to stick to cover, get a good alpha strike off and retreat. I suppose this is pretty awesome if you’ve got a coordinated group, popping up from cover and pumping a volley of high-damage alphas into a single target, taking it out in an instant. In a PUG, though, that feels a little… meh?

The TDR-9SE(S) and QKD-4G I’ve got are a huge contrast. Their alphas are considerably less potent but they run way cooler. With those, I can continually push out damage and while the range is lower, I do get access to my full offensive capabilities at a singular distance. There are three primary benefits to this, as far as I can tell: First, I can actually suppress and opponent with a continued barrage of LPL fire. Second, I can operate out of cover much more effectively. Third, an opponent catching me out of position or pushing up on me isn’t nearly as devastating as I don’t need to break away to cool down as early. Add to that that the TDR and QKD feel more tanky (despite running an XL engine in the QKD) than the TBR (which has more armor on paper, I think) and those two are able to come out on top if an opponent decides to drag me into a slugfest.

In theory, I might just equip my TBR with two weapon systems to cover the longer ranges and have some sort of backup if someone engages me, but I’ve yet to find a solution I feel comfortable with. I don’t have enough slots for C-ERSMLs to pack enough of a punch, C-ERMLs run too hot, a UAC/20 with some ammo is quite heavy for that sort of thing and using the Gauss for long range, backing it up with C-ERMLs for medium/short range, feels meh due to the Gausses cooldown.

So, tl;dr: The TBR is supposedly the best ‘Mech in the game, but my TDR and QKD both feel tankier, come with a one-size-fits-all sort of weapon loadout, require less heat management and there’s no trade-off to be made between hardpoints and negative quirks. The QKD is faster, to boot.

What am I missing? Does the TBR require a coordinated group? Does it get a huge boost from being mastered/having double basic efficiencies?

It's 75 tons, moves at the speed of a medium mech, with almost assault level armor, that is made excellent by hitboxes (I know a lot of people who put no more than 4 points in the rear, and front load the rest for 88 armor on the front). It can run any mix of weapons you want (heavy ballistics is where it can struggle a bit), it can run literally every role other than Scout, and Satellite.

Escort, suppression, skirmishing, flanking, LRMishing, brawling, charging, and sniping.

I need a Direwolf to reach 90+ alphas, you can do the same in a Timberwolf, and run faster, colder, and nimbler.

Now you mentioned the Thunderbolt, and how much you enjoyed it. Take a look at the quirks the two mechs have. The Timberwolf has several negative ones on it, to hold it back, while the Thunderbolt is boosted with several positive ones to try and bridge the gap.

Right now the position of "The best mech in the game" may not be as clear, because you've got three to four mechs that could be the very best, but until very recently, it was without dispute the Timberwolf. Now, it's Timberwolf, and a few that are very close to it that it could get blurry. The Thunderbolt also has only ONE build per variant that can be a genuine threat to the timberwolf. While the timberwolf has plenty that it can use. This means that the map selection alone could decide who wins.

[JigglyMoobs]

Right as others have already said, for a while the timby was clearly the best mech in the game. PGI had to boost other mechs and nerf the timby to achieve better clan vs is balance.

even so, ir remains a JJ capable heavy that is almost as tank as an assault, and almost as fast and agile as a medium.

you can run anything from SRM to lrm, to laser vomit (short med and long range) to dual gauss, to uac to gauss erppc.

that's like 7 or 8 variants that are all formidable and fun to plat. so it may not be as op as it used to be, but its still the best heavy mech to master and keep in your mechbay.

most effective way to use it is as op and others ddescribed. the timby suits aggressive ruthless play styles the best. remember that annoying raven or spider that pops in and out of cover to hit you with an erppc or lare laser shot? to the enemy team you are that guy, except you are 75 tons with 3x the firepower.

[Luminis]

Thank you, everyone, for your input! It's all much appreciated.

I think I'm starting to get around to understanding the TBR a bit better - most of all the flexibility it offers. Switched to a not-so optimized build today (4x C-ERML and an UAC/10) and it actually feels pretty fantastic. Trading a little oomph for the sustained DPS and heat efficiency to remain in the fight longer did wonders for me. As has been mentioned above, adapting to one's playstyle like that isn't something you get to do in an IS 'Mech.

I'm considering trying the Gauss again.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Beware, the Gauss ain't all it used to be. I believe the cooldown time on that was nerfed from 4.00 to 5.50 seconds, and the difference feels like FOREVER. Aside from a few mechs that are well quirked for Gauss or general ballistic cooldown (BJ-1DC being a personal favorite), the Gauss just isn't on my list these days.

Using that UAC/10 on the TBR? I like it! Some would say that Clan UACs aren't very good. But I like 'em. Try running two of them (there's at least one RT omni that carries a B hard point, maybe the PRIME, and at least one RA omni also, so you could set up the two UACs on the right and some ERMLs CT and LT, and shield with the left side).

[IraqiWalker]

Luminis, on 31 December 2015 - 05:08 PM, said:

Thank you, everyone, for your input! It's all much appreciated.

I think I'm starting to get around to understanding the TBR a bit better - most of all the flexibility it offers. Switched to a not-so optimized build today (4x C-ERML and an UAC/10) and it actually feels pretty fantastic. Trading a little oomph for the sustained DPS and heat efficiency to remain in the fight longer did wonders for me. As has been mentioned above, adapting to one's playstyle like that isn't something you get to do in an IS 'Mech.

I'm considering trying the Gauss again.

It's the adaptability that makes it a beast, plus the Clan XL engines giving it IS STD engine levels of survivability, for the weight of an XL engine. Always try and build the mech to suit your style of play.

Now the UAC is a solid choice. At medium and short ranges you actually have the edge on IS ballistic mechs running the same class of ACs. At longer ranges, IS ACs are better. However, short to medium range, your ultras will do wonders.

Do remember that people instinctively fear your mech, and will try to target it, or run away from it. Use that to your advantage as well. I hope you have fun with it, and keep on blowing enemy mechs up. So long as I'm not one of them, XP.

[JigglyMoobs]

Dual

TheRAbbi, on 31 December 2015 - 07:29 PM, said:

Beware, the Gauss ain't all it used to be. I believe the cooldown time on that was nerfed from 4.00 to 5.50 seconds, and the difference feels like FOREVER. Aside from a few mechs that are well quirked for Gauss or general ballistic cooldown (BJ-1DC being a personal favorite), the Gauss just isn't on my list these days.

Dual gauss is out I think. On the other hand Gauss 2xER PPC is pretty good, actually even better after the rebalance I would say.

The slower firing rate of the gauss syncs up nicely with the faster cool down of the er ppcs, and all the laser based threats just got a bit of a nerf, so it's my "go to" mech for PUG at the moment.

[Nik Reaper]

Also , how come none is mentioning the Orion IIc?
That thing is a powerhouse when used right, both for dual ballistic and for srm boating , it's not much of an laser boat and can't jump but it has good hitboxes and so much space for weapons with ok hardpoint locations.
While it's not wide spread as part of an preorder pack it seems it might make it to comp level play.

[TheCaptainJZ]

I'd say the Timberwolf is not quite as strong as it used to be due to balance changes. Still one of the best, but it shares the title with others. Clan laser ranges were nerfed across the board. The Champion build seems to work quite well though, and that's the sort of laser vomit builds I tend to see.

[Luminis]

Again, I'm really really thankful for the advice everyone is providing. I almost expected to encounter a certain level of hostility (based on experience with other games). Glad I was wrong

In TBR related news, I went back and played a few games with five C-ERMLAS and the Gauss. Must have been a powerhouse previously. I found myself doing considerably more damage every match than with quad medium lasers and the UAC. Pumping 50 points of damage into someone feels pretty awesome, gotta admit that much. Being able to engage at long range in some way is nice as well.

Escorting the assaults worked best for me so far. The TBR might be a primary target, but something even bigger does draw a lot of fire away from it

/edit:
Oh, yeah, I also stopped sporting a bright red, inverted Phranken camo. That might help as well

Edited by Luminis, 01 January 2016 - 09:07 AM.

[Tetule]

My tip: Nova. Medium mech with very good firepower. I have killed 2 mech while im hurt,one adder and a ebon jaguar fully armored,i have front armor depeleted because a king crab hit me with two ACs20. Really,i dont know how i can survivied on the frontal combat versus ebon jaguar while im hurt and he is fully armored. But that demostrate that Nova is a serious enemy,even versus heavyes and u can kill enemy mechs solo of course. Its my first mech and the one im going to mastery on elite first.

Oh and maybe i cant talk much because im half newbie,but i tested some IS mechs and noone do the incredible good work that provide me the Nova.

Also,i cant talk about TimberWolf or Thuderbolt,i didnt test any of two. However i have intention to adquire an Ebon Jaguar once i elite my Nova,because Ebon Jaguar have machineguns and im a lover of them.

Edited by Tetule, 01 January 2016 - 09:35 AM.