169 replies to this topic

[Draq Creage]

Antares102, on 31 December 2015 - 06:21 AM, said:

SWOL on FFR has tagged a SINGLE planet.
228 has tagged > 10 planets.
You think you are doing the work?

228 WHO WE HAVE 100000000000 PLANETS

[Anjian]

Antares102, on 31 December 2015 - 05:03 AM, said:

DISCLAIMER: This thread is NOT about balance.

So we are getting close to a situation where all clans may be pushed back to their start planets.
What do you think will happen when we really reach this point?
Will lore guys go nuts?
Will PGI buff clans (probably only drop deck tonnage)?
Will everything stay that way it is and the large units who made it happen will laugh at PGI for not being able to control their own game?
Will some large units just switch sides and go into the other direction again?

Even though I am clan I would find it hilarious to see clans being pushed back to their start planets. After clans surrounded Terra and conquered 25% of the entire IS kinda funny.
Furthermore if this really happens it will have some obvious consequences to the CW gameplay.
If there are no more clans to attack, the IS has to (god forbid) attack each other again.

Looking at disintegration of the CW player base as a whole. Content is created and driven by Clan players. Without Clan players to play with, IS players will be sitting at their thumbs. Eventually IS players have to fight IS or go back to the general queue.

However, you can't have inter IS players go to help one faction in the defense queue. There is no IS uniqueness, all IS factions have the same mechs, no special faction mechs unique only. If this is where CW will lead to, there is no point in having Clan vs. IS uniqueness, and they should just let Clan players use IS mechs and IS players use Clan mechs. No factionalization of mechs might provide the best balance.

The whole lore structure is in the first place, poorly structured for large scale factional community warfare. Experience from Chromehounds to Planetside indicates the ideal composition is only three factions. Too many factions create fragmentation, and eventual gravity means stronger factions will suck the remaining life from weaker factions. Ghost Bear and Smoke Jaguar suffered in CW2 when lots of clan players choose Falcon or Wolf instead.

Edited by Anjian, 31 December 2015 - 06:54 AM.

[Antares102]

Draq Creage, on 31 December 2015 - 06:39 AM, said:

228 WHO WE HAVE 100000000000 PLANETS

Ah ok, understood. You are a generic SWOL drone.

Edited by Antares102, 31 December 2015 - 07:00 AM.

[Antares102]

Anjian, on 31 December 2015 - 06:52 AM, said:

However, you can't have inter IS players go to help one faction in the defense queue. There is no IS uniqueness, all IS factions have the same mechs, no special faction mechs unique only. If this is where CW will lead to, there is no point in having Clan vs. IS uniqueness, and they should just let Clan players use IS mechs and IS players use Clan mechs. No factionalization of mechs might provide the best balance.

Thats a very good point. Folks like to think in black and white, good and evil. For IS the clans are evil and vice versa. If clans are gone there is little to fight over. The picture of the clear enemy is blurred.

Edited by Antares102, 31 December 2015 - 07:04 AM.

[Ultimax]

Antares102, on 31 December 2015 - 05:19 AM, said:

Well thats simple.. many big units on the IS side. No balance issue here.

265T drop decks, and now IS has Laser range advantage with specific mechs has absolutely had a part to play in this change.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Pretty simple. PGI just states that Clams took some planets during the 20 minute Cease Fire window:P

[Nightmare1]

Antares102, on 31 December 2015 - 05:03 AM, said:

So we are getting close to a situation where all clans may be pushed back to their start planets.

I predict the following from certain members of the community in response to this phenomenon:

"Clans OP; plz nerf!"

[JC Daxion]

Navid A1, on 31 December 2015 - 05:16 AM, said:

Well i think its not about lore...
basically CW is nothing more than 3 large units painting a digital map. PGI simply can not stop it. Large units like pugstomping. Even if they don't, they have no choice. There is no MatchMaking in CW.

Honestly they do have a choice.. they don't all have to play IS or clan.. they could also contest planets that others are holding.. they just choose not to.

was one of the things they talked about in the town hall. You can do everything you can to try to get people to fight each other,, but if the top groups won't go to opposite sides.. what can PGI do? Outside of making it tournament style, and Force the Clans and IS groups to fight themselves..

Though perhaps that is what they should do?


another interesting thing.. maybe go lore.. You can only use mechs from your lore group? To me there are lots of things that could be done.. But PGI needs to add the tools and restrictions, and people need to take part in trying to fight the best of the best..


Perhaps ranking groups.. Say a top IS group verse a top clan group counts way more as a win/loss,, verse a top group stomping a pug,, which could lead to just a tiny % of a gain.. Stomp pugs all day.. could count the same as a couple wins vrse top groups.. Then again, people could just game that system too..

Like i said, it is up to the players as much as PGI to get good CW matches in the end.. at last thats the way i see it..

Edited by JC Daxion, 31 December 2015 - 10:06 AM.

[Tyler Valentine]

Antares102, on 31 December 2015 - 05:03 AM, said:

Will everything stay that way it is and the large units who made it happen will laugh at PGI for not being able to control their own game?

Will some large units just switch sides and go into the other direction again?

This one and then... this one.

Pika, on 31 December 2015 - 05:15 AM, said:

It's hard to say what is causing the imbalance, too.

Nope. When the big merc units move, dominance flips...

Edited by Tyler Valentine, 31 December 2015 - 10:38 AM.

[Tyler Valentine]

Kurvi, on 31 December 2015 - 05:41 AM, said:

FWIW, it might be a natural response to Tukayyid 3. Consider that a number of the top units moved to the Clan side for the faster drop times. Since they are merc units, it's not inconceivable that they simply want to alternate between IS and Clan. If this is correct, then things will balance out a bit more once they get de-synced.

They don't de-sync. They make sure of that.

[Jownz]

Antares102, on 31 December 2015 - 05:03 AM, said:

DISCLAIMER: This thread is NOT about balance.

So we are getting close to a situation where all clans may be pushed back to their start planets.
What do you think will happen when we really reach this point?
Will lore guys go nuts?
Will PGI buff clans (probably only drop deck tonnage)?
Will everything stay that way it is and the large units who made it happen will laugh at PGI for not being able to control their own game?
Will some large units just switch sides and go into the other direction again?

Even though I am clan I would find it hilarious to see clans being pushed back to their start planets. After clans surrounded Terra and conquered 25% of the entire IS kinda funny.
Furthermore if this really happens it will have some obvious consequences to the CW gameplay.
If there are no more clans to attack, the IS has to (god forbid) attack each other again.

They will start to provide some kind of incentive to play clan. Such as more xp, c-bills, free mechs or mech bays. Mercs will switch to clans. New players will start as clans.

[Dirkdaring]

Part of the problem is they nerfed clans so much its just silly. They were supposed to be far more powerful than IS.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Dirkdaring, on 31 December 2015 - 10:43 AM, said:

Part of the problem is they nerfed clans so much its just silly. They were supposed to be far more powerful than IS.

LOL, a video game where one side is far more powerful than another side. Why the Eff would anyone play IS then?

[MischiefSC]

No no guys. It's that IS players are just on average better. All the bad pugs are in Clans, Clan players just don't coordinate as well and they bring LRMs.

It's definitely not that clan mechs are no longer universally op by comparison and the big merc units left.

No, IS pugs are just better than Clan pugs. All of a sudden.

[ZenFool]

There are two things that I think might be happening here.

1. SWOL wanted their name on wolf planets and this was the only way.

2. The big units engaged in a conspiracy to start IS OP threads, then all jumped IS to "prove" their point.

[Vanguard836]

When the big units go IS this happens, when they go clan...well last "season" showed what happened. This will always happen.

[MechWarrior3671771]

I think its because the large units went IS, but then I'm not really experienced enough to have an opinion with merit.

I would like to hear from MS, SWOL and 228 leadership on this. I think they have the best read on why the current map is the way it is, and I'm *hoping* they consider it to be in their best interest to provide feedback that will level out the playing field.

I don't know about the other two units, but my understanding is that 228 would prefer to be challenged instead of rolling pugs 24/7.

Edited by Fen Tetsudo, 31 December 2015 - 11:02 AM.

[Bud Crue]

As already said the OP issue is about merc units. I am to the point that the lore based factions are pointless as long as merc units are allowed to control this game mode the way they are. Look to the FRR as an example. Note I mean no offense to merc units or my fellow FRR loyalists, I simply point out these facts to illustrate the problems as I see it. FRR was at one point down to a single planet. Mercs...who had previously helped the clans take our planets...switched affiliation and we were able to get many of the planets back.
No point in pretending this yo-yo trend is an aspect of lore based clan v is and great play by loyalist on one side or the other. Its not...it can't be...there are not enough players for the faction loyalist to make the differences that we see in the map over fairly short periods of time. It is clearly and obviously a function of the mercs ability to go where they want essentially without cost.
Now this is not necessarily a bad thing. These units ability to move about help with cue times and keeps a low population game playable. But the state of the map at any given time has nothing to do with balance...rather it has everything to do with where the comp (Merc) teams are at tbe moment. PGI needs to address this if we want the map to have any meaning in re the factions.

Edited by Bud Crue, 31 December 2015 - 11:30 AM.

[Moldur]

Lo and behold, IS beats back the clans when nobody is playing for clans.

Wow. Big surprise. Never saw it coming.

[LupineShadow]

Antares102, on 31 December 2015 - 06:59 AM, said:

Ah ok, understood. You are a generic SWOL drone.

Says the faction who only HAS 2 planets.