14 replies to this topic

[Darian DelFord]

OK been thinking about this for a while. We all know that High Alphas's are a problem in this game. Its how to deal with them that is he problem, however one solution I have not seen is this,

PPC's have a minimum range of 90 meters

LRM's have a minimum range of 180 meters

Yet a Large Pulse Laser on a TDR does the same about of damage at 600 meters as it does at 2 meters. IMHO THAT is the problem with MWO.

Long range energy weapons do the same damage at long range as they do at point blank range.

So since minimum ranges are already in the game as well as scaling of damage past optimal range. Why not merely put in a mechanic that lowers the damage of long range weapons the closer the enemy is to you?

This would, I think, STOP all the damn boating of ER and Large lasers that your seeing. It would also allow brawling to become more prevalent.

Thoughts ideas? Just curious is all, I really think this would work.

[Lukoi Banacek]

I actually dont believe TTK is a problem so much that the game can be unforgiving if you make a positioning mistake.

Adding minimum ranges to more weapons isnt a solution to this alledged problem regardless imo. The ability for all weapons to enjoy pin point convergence in a fps shooter adapted from a ruleset of a TT game that incorporated RNG hit location is the primary culprit. But I am no RNG advocate. Merely pointing out that the root of the problem lies with the origina of the game.

Frankly, I would be more a fan of splitting convergence by weapon location to make it harder for for PP accuracy, but thats a sticky wicket in its own right.

[FupDup]

Long range weapons have lower damage per tonnage and/or damage per heat efficiency than shorter ranged weapons. Thus, if we assume similar levels of loadout tonnage and heatsinks, the short ranged loadout will put out more damage.

The reason this doesn't work as well in-practice as it does in-theory is because there are 12 mechs on every team, which allows for lots of focus-fire that exponentially amplifies the amount of damage being dealt.

[Anjian]

The TTK in my opinion is too low for a single spawn game, but okay for a multiple spawn game like the CW mode.

[Chados]

One on one it usually isn't that bad. But the poster talking about positioning is sooooooo right. Especially if you are in a slow mech. I notice that when I play in group queue especially that one goof and splat, focused down by the other team en masse. A speedy medium or light heavy with jump jets can often get you the heck out of Dodge to fight another day. But a Marauder or anything heavier? Dig that grave, boy. Dig it deep. There's no escape. Boomdead.

[Alistair Winter]

Because a lot of people prefer more realistic alternatives. For example, people have been suggesting that the gauss rifle should have a minimum range instead of a charge mechanic. But the idea that a hyper-accelerated solid projectile does no damage at point blank is ludicrous.

The best way to decrease TTK is global nerfs to heat efficiency (as was done recently, indirectly, via skill tree nerf) or - as many players have been asking for since 2013 - adjust the global heat capacity and heat dissipation.

The best solutions for MWO are almost always the ones that deal with the core mechanics. Bandaids like ghost heat, ghost range and minimum range should be avoided if at all possible.

[Sylonce]

Honestly, I find TTK a bit too high in this game. The mechs in this game can soak up more damage than any of the previous MW games. But then, if the meta consists of boating large lasers (or large pulses), than I suppose it's not entirely a bad thing.

Perhaps large lasers/pulse could use a longer cool down.

[BearFlag]

Similar proposals have been floated before suggesting a sawtooth (a whole or partial triangle top) damage curve for lasers peaking at "optimal" range. It would surely reduce damage and boost TTK. Seems it would also encourage stand-off fighting. The curve itself however is a bit counter-intuitive to the way lasers actually work.

The current curve is silly in its own right. Full damage to half ("optimal") range then linear drop off.

I favor the idea of strict linear drop off. Half damage at half (optimal) range. One quarter damage at three quarters range. Three quarters damage at one quarter range. This agrees with the notion of the beam being attenuated by the magic medium (an atmosphere which is identical on all maps).

[TheArisen]

Alistair Winter, on 31 December 2015 - 08:17 PM, said:

Because a lot of people prefer more realistic alternatives. For example, people have been suggesting that the gauss rifle should have a minimum range instead of a charge mechanic. But the idea that a hyper-accelerated solid projectile does no damage at point blank is ludicrous.

The best way to decrease TTK is global nerfs to heat efficiency (as was done recently, indirectly, via skill tree nerf) or - as many players have been asking for since 2013 - adjust the global heat capacity and heat dissipation.

The best solutions for MWO are almost always the ones that deal with the core mechanics. Bandaids like ghost heat, ghost range and minimum range should be avoided if at all possible.

Quoted for truth.

The only other way would be to make mechs tougher (defensive tech perhaps).

In general TTK isn't too bad. I'm more worried that ppl will beg for bad ideas.

[adamts01]

Sylonce, on 31 December 2015 - 08:18 PM, said:

Honestly, I find TTK a bit too high in this game. The mechs in this game can soak up more damage than any of the previous MW games. But then, if the meta consists of boating large lasers (or large pulses), than I suppose it's not entirely a bad thing.

Perhaps large lasers/pulse could use a longer cool down.

That wouldn't really change how I peek and alpha in my Timby. I'll still scoot out and put 61 points right where I want it. Just one of those blows is game changing, or game over for anything I hit.

The last heat change didn't really affect my build, it just cools faster now. I'm fully on board with a massive heat cap reduction with an increase in cooling, making an alpha of that size impossible.

Edit: and also a cone of fire as a penalty for stacking so many weapons in one alpha.

Edited by adamts01, 31 December 2015 - 09:04 PM.

[stun]

Large pulse laser catapults (Jester) seem to be pretty good right now.

[Nightmare1]

@OP: TTK isn't an issue. Stupid mistakes/pilots are the issue. I've face-tanked Timberwolves with my XL Enforcer simply because I was torso twisting and shielding while he just sat their and shot at me. I killed him without taking serious damage in a relatively quick manner simply because I was on target while he wasn't. That wasn't a high-alpha problem; it was a pilot problem.

Shoot, I used to run a HBK-4G with 2xAC/2s and some MLs for laughs and did pretty good with it. Again, it was the pilots I was facing. A pilot of comparable skill with a better Mech would have annihilated me.

Frankly, I think TTK is in a good spot. Your recommendation about damage drop off is actually already in game for the distance traveled past the optimal range for the weapon. In short, what your suggesting already exists and isn't needed. Let's not make the game more convoluted and risk messing up our hit-reg more than it already is.

If your TTK is too short, I recommend that you torso twist more and stop standing around in the open. You'll be surprised at how much your TTK goes up.

[TLBFestus]

Nice try, but IMHO this would simply encourage the snipers and punish the brawlers.

Lights would run amok closing in so lazzzurs are ineffective.

It might increase diversity of load outs for some chassis, but as much as it would do that it would also nerf the crap outta other ones. We would most likely see the energy meta abruptly switch over to the dakka dakka meta.

[Ultimax]

Nearly every situation where you go from fresh to dead in a non-low ton mech is generally one where multiple mechs were shooting you.


That's focus fire and positioning.


You would have to nerf everything into wet noodles or just continue to buff structure/armor to overcome that.

I know a lot of players want a game where they can recklessly walk out in the open and feel invincible - but really would be a dumb game that requires little actual thought to play.



1v1 mechs don't seem fragile at all, and while this is not a 1v1 game, you should always be aiming to win 1v1 trades.

That means you fire on a mech and at worst receive return fire from that one mech and not his entire lance.

[Cion]

TTK one v one is fine.

The issue is poorly designed maps/game modes and 12.v12 that encourage deathballs (and focus fire). Put lance vs lance combat and TTK is perfect.