24 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

Disclaimer: This is not about how to win matches on River City. I don't know anything about "comp team" tactics, I don't want to know, I don't care. And this is not about how to lead PUGs to victory either. As often as not, following my advice will lead to glorious defeat. But this thread is not about winning or losing, it's not about group queue or pugging.

Lately I've learned to love River City a lot more than when it came out. It's now my favourite map and I'll tell you why. It's all about getting your team to fight in the fun parts of the map. And basically, the whole map is fantastic, except the center. The center of River City is just a big box you circle around (i.e. Citadel) and it's boring as hell. But it's a wonderful map, and if you can just gently prod (or force) your team to fight anywhere else on River City, I dare say it's the best map in MWO.

The reason River City is often so boring is simply because of the River and the Citadel. Stay away from those, and the match is 10 times as fun.

Why is it more fun?

• Matches in green areas are a lot more unpredictable, each mech has a lot of different options. When you multiply the options of all the mechs spread in different streets and alleys, you end up with a near infinite number of possible outcomes.
  
• Fighting in green areas is a lot more difficult, more challenging. It's not just corner-peeping to snipe at people across the river, you have mechs coming at you from potentially any direction. Light mechs are zipping in and out of view like the frickin Nightcrawler.
  
• Keeping track of your team in green areas is a lot harder, because everything is so chaotic. You don't know where the front line is, you don't know if you're being flanked or if you're walking into cross fire.
  
• It's so much more beautiful. The green parts of the map are really the parts where you can really let your jaw drop as you study the details of the city (while shooting people in the face). There are so many pretty parts of the city people never see.

And for all these reasons, it's generally a bad idea to let the enemy team cross the river and take up position in the green areas. However, it's a lot more fun, so screw tactics. Abandon the river and the Citadel. Embrace the thrilling chaos of urban warfare.

So yeah. If you're in a group, direct your group towards the green areas. If you're pugging, beg your teammates to stay away from Citadel. Don't mention the fact that it makes no strategic sense. Just enjoy the match!

Spoiler

[Kjudoon]

I know I prefer fighting in those green areas.

[Hit the Deck]

Alistair Winter, on 02 January 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

...

• Fighting in green areas is a lot more difficult, more challenging. It's not just corner-peeping to snipe at people across the river, you have mechs coming at you from potentially any direction. Light mechs are zipping in and out of view like the frickin Nightcrawler.

...

And that's why I don't go to the green areas except to flank. I like to be able to see and snipe enemy Mechs daring to expose themselves or cross the river with my dual Gauss lazor vomiting cheese Whale!

Edited by Hit the Deck, 02 January 2016 - 04:27 PM.

[Mannson]

I've come to dislike the peekaboo tactic despite most of my mechs being designed for that role, but anywho, I do tend to take the fight outside that little red area. Especially if my team is mostly IS and enemy is mostly clanners!

[Nostromodamus]

My biggest issue with the map is the PUG commander wannabes trying to tell everyone to defend upper city on Assault mode.

Sure go there, but the enemy has zero reason to attack that part of the map.

Instead, they will go to your base and force you to leave the area you want to defend by threatening a cap win.

I try to explain this to people, but they will not listen...

[Hit the Deck]

Despite dropping with a cheese Whale, actually I don't fight in the red area but do shoot enemies there. Sorry that I can't tell you where my super secret sniper nest is!

[LordNothing]

i dont like games where one team is fighting on one green area, and the other is fighting in the other green area. i hate games like that.

[Alistair Winter]

Hit the Deck, on 02 January 2016 - 04:26 PM, said:

And that's why I don't go to the green areas except to flank. I like to be able to see and snipe enemy Mechs daring to expose themselves or cross the river with my dual Gauss lazor vomiting cheese Whale!

You only play the DW? Time to change your sig

Kjudoon, on 02 January 2016 - 04:00 PM, said:

I know I prefer fighting in those green areas.

Nice video! Although from the name, I was expecting more jump jetting with slow motion effects!

CelticCross, on 02 January 2016 - 04:36 PM, said:

My biggest issue with the map is the PUG commander wannabes trying to tell everyone to defend upper city on Assault mode.
Sure go there, but the enemy has zero reason to attack that part of the map.
Instead, they will go to your base and force you to leave the area you want to defend by threatening a cap win.
I try to explain this to people, but they will not listen...

Pug matches are weird though. They defy logic. For example, in Skirmish mode, there's no reason for anyone to charge the Hill on Alpine or Platform on Crimson or Volcano on Terra Therma. But taking the positions isn't necessarily a bad idea (although it's extremely boring), because there's a 50% chance that your enemy will needlessly charge your position and die horribly. Even in Assault mode, when there are bases to cap, the same principle applies. It sometimes pays to just put the bait out.

But actually, if you can count on people to defend base, then D4 isn't a bad strategic move anyway. Because you basically have 4 choices. Defend the harbor, defend D4, attack space port or attack citadel. Attacking citadel puts you at a disadvantage, attacking space port is nearly impossible without getting outcapped. Defending harbor means that the enemy is free to grab D4 and get the high ground (although they leave their base empty, but that doesn't always matter), but if you defend D4, you can attack the harbor from arguably the best position.

So yeah, you're "forced" to leave the area, but attacking harbor from D4 is preferable to attacking Citadel from the harbor, in my opinion.

LordNothing, on 02 January 2016 - 05:12 PM, said:

i dont like games where one team is fighting on one green area, and the other is fighting in the other green area. i hate games like that.

Same here. But I personally hate circling the Citadel even more.

[Tarogato]

D7/E7 is my new favourite spot for calling at the start of a match on Assault. The enemy either crosses citadel to the south and comes for a base cap, or they cross the river at the north and enters starport. No matter which way they come from, your entire team is laying in wait, in cover, ready to pop out and snag them when they start moving for the base cap.

I've won three solo queue matches doing this already... it's loads of fun when people listen.

[Alistair Winter]

Tarogato, on 02 January 2016 - 06:24 PM, said:

D7/E7 is my new favourite spot for calling at the start of a match on Assault. The enemy either crosses citadel to the south and comes for a base cap, or they cross the river at the north and enters starport. No matter which way they come from, your entire team is laying in wait, in cover, ready to pop out and snag them when they start moving for the base cap.

I've won three solo queue matches doing this already... it's loads of fun when people listen.

Yep, same here! I do that every time when I start on that side, if people listen. And I've noticed people listen more and more recently, so hopefully it's a trend across the pug population, just like when people learned to hold D4.

[Kjudoon]

Quote

Nice video! Although from the name, I was expecting more jump jetting with slow motion effects!

Yeah, I know. That was more a reaction to how it felt to be in match plus the music being "Mona Lisa Overdrive" from The Matrix Reloaded (aka the highway chase music) that just fit perfectly. My hair was on end from the first contact with the wolverine to the end.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

D4 Upper City, E6 and E7 Lower City Apartments/Residential offer really good urban fighting. If PGI were to make a strict urban map they should do it based on these grids.

I always try and make a call for D4 if it can be helped.

[Hit the Deck]

Alistair Winter, on 02 January 2016 - 06:09 PM, said:

You only play the DW? Time to change your sig
....

It's hard work to master 2 DWs and I like to be rewarded. Thankfully, they do not disappoint

Hit the Deck, on 02 January 2016 - 04:48 PM, said:

Despite dropping with a cheese Whale, actually I don't fight in the red area but do shoot enemies there. Sorry that I can't tell you where my super secret sniper nest is!

Ok, I'll tell you where my secret peek-a-boo spot are:



Spot no. 1 is usually a better place than no. 2. Red lines are where you go when you push or flank. Blue lines are what you follow when things go hairy.

I also like to look for early enemy movements from the above mentioned D7/E7 when the match starts but only when I they put me at the airport.

[BarHaid]

Cafe Davion. Brilliant! I really need to play in testing grounds more.

[Alistair Winter]

Hit the Deck, on 02 January 2016 - 07:09 PM, said:

Spot no. 1 is usually a better place than no. 2. Red lines are where you go when you push or flank. Blue lines are what you follow when things go hairy.

Spot 1 is fairly standard, but I'm impressed if you're able to snipe with a Dire Wolf at spot 2, for several reasons. First of all, it's fairly easy to get smashed by LRMs when you're not directly under the bridge. Second, being under the bridge makes it hard to maintain awareness, so it's easy for enemy light packs to sneak up on you. And third, if you do have to escape from that position, it's a fairly long walk back to safety.

Maybe I'll see you in a pug match some day and get to see you pull it off

[RockmachinE]

Hit the Deck, on 02 January 2016 - 04:48 PM, said:

Despite dropping with a cheese Whale, actually I don't fight in the red area but do shoot enemies there. Sorry that I can't tell you where my super secret sniper nest is!

There is no super secret sniper nests in MWO, if you can shoot me I can shoot you. I have a damage direction indicator, I'll turn to that direction and just wait for you to shoot again and I'll do it out of principle because you think you can be a sneaky sniper.

Its extremely difficult to stay properly hidden in this game unless you move and shoot constantly.

I like to play snipers too. There are spots that are obviously better for it, but ultimately if the enemy is semi competent they will not let you repeatedly shoot them from any position without shooting back.

Ultimately enemy incompetence is more important then your spot.

Edited by Louis Brofist, 03 January 2016 - 09:24 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

Alistair Winter, on 03 January 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

Spot 1 is fairly standard, but I'm impressed if you're able to snipe with a Dire Wolf at spot 2, for several reasons. First of all, it's fairly easy to get smashed by LRMs when you're not directly under the bridge. Second, being under the bridge makes it hard to maintain awareness, so it's easy for enemy light packs to sneak up on you. And third, if you do have to escape from that position, it's a fairly long walk back to safety.

Maybe I'll see you in a pug match some day and get to see you pull it off

Yeah spot no. 2 is not ideal but I'm usually there of instead of on the upper city because you can advance and flank from there and oftentimes it's too far to shoot at the enemies on the citadel (or behind it) from the upper city.

BTW I use those spots mainly for suppressing the enemies so they don't wander off or flank my team from the side I am watching at.

[Alistair Winter]

Louis Brofist, on 03 January 2016 - 09:22 AM, said:

There is no super secret sniper nests in MWO, if you can shoot me I can shoot you. I have a damage direction indicator, I'll turn to that direction and just wait for you to shoot again and I'll do it out of principle because you think you can be a sneaky sniper.

Its extremely difficult to stay properly hidden in this game unless you move and shoot constantly.

I like to play snipers too. There are spots that are obviously better for it, but ultimately if the enemy is semi competent they will not let you repeatedly shoot them from any position without shooting back.

Ultimately enemy incompetence is more important then your spot.

It's definitely harder to be a sniper in MWO. In other games, you just need a single shot to end someone. And in many cases, people will wander unknowingly into your crosshairs. In MWO, snipers need to consistently outsmart and outdraw their targets. They need to be the first guys to hit and the first guys to disappear back into cover. Unless you're a mobile sniper, like a 2xCERPPC Nova, of course. But the traditional sniper role of suppressive fire from a bird's nest and instant headshots is, for better and for worse, not applicable to MWO.

I do think it's a little bit sad. It would be so awesome to jump on top of a building in an ECM Shadowcat and just one-shot unsuspecting targets with your gauss rifle from 900 meters. Just blow some Blackjack's cockpit clean off. Sadly, it doesn't work like that.

[Hit the Deck]

BTW, I'm not really a "sniper" in my DW despite saying something related to sniping. More like a mobile turret.

[RockmachinE]

Alistair Winter, on 03 January 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

It's definitely harder to be a sniper in MWO. In other games, you just need a single shot to end someone. And in many cases, people will wander unknowingly into your crosshairs. In MWO, snipers need to consistently outsmart and outdraw their targets. They need to be the first guys to hit and the first guys to disappear back into cover. Unless you're a mobile sniper, like a 2xCERPPC Nova, of course. But the traditional sniper role of suppressive fire from a bird's nest and instant headshots is, for better and for worse, not applicable to MWO.

I do think it's a little bit sad. It would be so awesome to jump on top of a building in an ECM Shadowcat and just one-shot unsuspecting targets with your gauss rifle from 900 meters. Just blow some Blackjack's cockpit clean off. Sadly, it doesn't work like that.

Agreed. Good analysis!