17 replies to this topic

[Hekatrix]

I've been trying out the trial 'mechs and it became clear I haven't got the nerves to brawl, or be too close to the action. So I looked around metamechs for awhile and came across two long range builds.

BJ-1
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5b4a588dc4ea32b

HBK-4J
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f69d9176557d785

When I looked into it I read that Blackjacks were in a good spot right now, while Hunchbacks fell out of favor. Both look like they have some nice range, so these are what I have my eye on currently. Whichever one I go with I'm going to buy the mastery bundle for, or in the case of the Hunchback, the bundle + the mech while it's on sale.

Any input for which is the better pick?

[Koniving]

Hunchbacks fell out of favor? Since when?
Ages ago, "meta" builders weren't fan of Hunchbacks but that's because the notion of right front torso 46 armor (right rear 2 armor) and left front 16 armor (left rear 16 armor) was terrifying unusual... though the result made the mech seem almost invincible.

People were once against the "Almost all of its weapons are on the right torso" idea, particularly with how large that right torso was.

Now, its total right torso armor is 48 allocate-able + 18 front, with 24 + 12 right torso structure.
It's closest matching 55 tonner's side torso (5 tons bigger) is the Shadowhawk's left torso at 52 allocate-able and 26 structure.

The BJ's side torso is... what the... No wonder it's in favor.

It should be 44 armor and 22 structure.
But it is ST: 44 armor + 44 structure.
What.
The.
This... this is baffling.
Vindicator is a 45 ton mech that Desperately needs that kind of buff.. but it's on the Blackjack? Vindicator is 1.4x its god-dang size!

Sorry, just had my mind blown.

Would say Hunchback, but evidently Blackjacks have a temporary "I tank, use me" button going on. Wouldn't count on this lasting.

[Hekatrix]

I'm just going off what I read, maybe the info I saw was way out of date about Hunchbacks.

[Koniving]

Oh, and here.
These are very important in making your decision.

It could be something old, or it could be the thing I just discovered about Blackjack quirks. Blackjacks get a total amount of 164 structure added. (Hunchback only gets 12 structure and 18 armor added... Hunchback gets 178+12 structure TOTAL!). (Blackjack should only have 162 structure total, but they get 164 added for a total of 326 structure??????)

326 structure?!
I'm sure you can see why my mind has just exploded.

For comparison: A King Crab, a Dire Wolf, and an Atlas before structure quirks have 316 structure.... at 100 tons.

Edited by Koniving, 07 January 2016 - 05:07 PM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Either is great. Grab the Mastery Pack. SUPER mechs, both.

HBK is probably THE most recommended first mech purchase, though. BJ is a better one AT THE MOMENT, but you'll hurt yourself in the long run by taking an ace mech early.

Grab the hunchies. Get good in those.

[Coralld]

Koniving, on 07 January 2016 - 04:57 PM, said:

Oh, and here.
These are very important in making your decision.

It could be something old, or it could be the thing I just discovered about Blackjack quirks. Blackjacks get a total amount of 164 structure added. (Hunchback only gets 12 structure and 18 armor added... Hunchback gets 178+12 structure TOTAL!). (Blackjack should only have 162 structure total, but they get 164 added for a total of 326 structure??????)

326 structure?!
I'm sure you can see why my mind has just exploded.

For comparison: A King Crab, a Dire Wolf, and an Atlas before structure quirks have 316 structure.... at 100 tons.

And this is why I am in favor of toneing down the structure quirks for the Black Jack. Don't get me wrong I love the Jacks but come on those structure quirks are crazy.

Still though the Huchbacks are better if for no other reason than because you get a variety of rolls and play styles because of it's versital pool of variants.

Edited by Coralld, 07 January 2016 - 05:21 PM.

[Koniving]

(I wouldn't count on the blackjack quirks lasting terribly long; in the upcoming months the quirk system itself is to get a massive overhaul as MWO hits the "information warfare" stage.)

I'm a firm believer in Hunchbacks, though I've had great experiences in my less versatile blackjacks as well.

[Coralld]

Koniving, on 07 January 2016 - 05:23 PM, said:

(I wouldn't count on the blackjack quirks lasting terribly long; in the upcoming months the quirk system itself is to get a massive overhaul as MWO hits the "information warfare" stage.)

I'm a firm believer in Hunchbacks, though I've had great experiences in my less versatile blackjacks as well.

Hunchback is love, Hunchback is life.

[Smoked]

Hunchbacks are hardy, can be fast (90-97kph) and can deliver a lot of damage with the right builds. They can be a bit on the tankier side as well. Blackjacks used to be more glasslike but I guess PGI fixed that issue and then some. Both are great mechs, blackjack had a learning curve but apparently not any more.

If you like Hill humping, Blackjacks are great.
If you like strafing and tanking a little, Hunchies are better.

Both mechs are solid and you will enjoy the grind for both of them.

[Metus regem]

Another good option is the Centurion family, they can be fast, they can be tanky, that can be Missile spam, they can be AC spam and they can vomit lasers in the CN9-AL. They are one of they few chassis that work as either standard engines or XL Engines, they also have a fantastic hero Mech in the form of the CN9-LYW.

[Hekatrix]

Played a bunch of games today/tonight with the HBK-4J, been having a good time of it. Already contemplating how to build the 4SP as a brawler.

[xxx OVERLORD xxx]

In clans side i would prefer the stormcrow over any medium, but if you are sticking with IS i would say that enforcer is amazing, Centurion is a very versatile mech. If you are sticking with only these two options, i would go for hunchies.

[Angela Kerensky]

Hekatrix, on 08 January 2016 - 05:04 AM, said:

Played a bunch of games today/tonight with the HBK-4J, been having a good time of it. Already contemplating how to build the 4SP as a brawler.

The 4 SP with lasers won't last too long in a brawl due to heat. You are best playing it as hit and run. Go in, alpha 2-3x then get out. It's fine if you can take some damage from your team, just make sure you have assaults to hide behind or an exit route. Otherwise you can just fire the SRMs without the lasers.

You'll have to pick high alpha or sustain, meaning less lasers. The old 4SP could overheat just firing 2 SRM6s (40% CD, now it's 30%) but the lower CD now might alleviate that a little.

An alternative to your 4SP is putting 3 ERLL on it and some backup lasers. It's agile and tough and you can make it work in peek and shoot sniping before closing in for the kill.

Edited by Angela Kerensky, 08 January 2016 - 06:05 AM.

[Jody Von Jedi]

When you get ready for a heavy mech, Thunderbolt is hard to beat. It's very tanky. If you chose the IS side in faction play, they're hard to beat. You can easily bring 3 in your drop deck regardless of Dropship weight limit.

[GotShotALot]

Ran across some other threads that carried the reminder "if you are buying it for the super OP quirks, you'll be crying later when they 'fix' them".

Hunchies have weathered several quirk passes, BlackJacks look kinda ripe for a 'balance' run.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Hekatrix, on 08 January 2016 - 05:04 AM, said:

Played a bunch of games today/tonight with the HBK-4J, been having a good time of it. Already contemplating how to build the 4SP as a brawler.

A humble proposal, if I may...

So, the top speed WITHOUT tweak is 81.0, which is respectable for an IS medium but not really GREAT. This mech has acceleration/deceleration/turn-rate quirks that will make it feel faster than it is. It also has some pretty ridiculous (Blackjack-like) structure buffs for added survivability. There's an energy heat generation quirk that gets another +5% specific to MLs, but that's not much, and it's overall a lot more efficient with those SPLs. I see more and more medium/heavy builds with those these days, and as long as you plan to be in range (brawling, you say?) they'll be vicious. Artemis IV for the SRMs is a must. Two ASRM-6s ain't a LOT of brawl punch, but this chassis also has an insane missile cooldown quirk (-30% I think), so they'll be firing off pretty quickly. You've got enough DHS in there to be able to get off THREE alphas on not-hot maps without ever taking a single BASIC skill, and probably four with the two BASIC heat skills unlocked, without overheating. And you'll have the cooldown/fire rate and speed to make that really count, and to get that damage out quickly. Probably not the BEST HBK-4SP build, but I think it'll work.

Edited by TheRAbbi, 08 January 2016 - 07:40 AM.

[Hekatrix]

Is the HBK-4SP not XL friendly?

[Koniving]

Hekatrix, on 08 January 2016 - 07:55 PM, said:

Is the HBK-4SP not XL friendly?

You could do it, but the question is why would you? (It's pretty XL friendly). Thing is there really isn't a reason to shove an XL into it. The engine rating limit won't get high enough to warrant it. Most loadouts are perfectly doable with standard engine + endo steel. (About the only real reason to do it might be to boat it with LRM-20s and/or quad large lasers or quad PPCs).


My 4SP.

Chase cam of my Hunchback 4G (as recorded by Lordred). XL engine, LB-10x, 2 MGs, 3 small pulse lasers.


Works pretty well; only reason for the XL engine is the LB is 11 tons, plus several tons of ammo + a boatload of heatsinks. Adds up quick, could very well do it without the XL engine but then I wouldn't be 95.8 kph, instead I'd manage it (with half a ton extra in ammo) at 76.6 kph.

For a 4SP with only energy and missile hard points (the heaviest thing being an LRM-20 at 10 tons), there isn't terribly a reason to do it.

Edited by Koniving, 08 January 2016 - 08:13 PM.