87 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcgral18, on 09 January 2016 - 01:31 PM, said:

Close

1050 for ERPPCs

950 for normal PPCs

http://mwomercs.com/...13410-07jul2015

I'll see your patch notes and trump them with mine.......
http://mwomercs.com/...date-and-patch/

[Mcgral18]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 January 2016 - 01:37 PM, said:

I'll see your patch notes and trump them with mine.......
http://mwomercs.com/...date-and-patch/

Specifically, I

Too many changes, too poor a forum search feature.

Edited by Mcgral18, 09 January 2016 - 01:40 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

And yet, PPCs at 1500 m/s were able to stand a fighting chance against Clan laser vomit during the early stages of the invasion.

they had like -50% heat generation too though

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 09 January 2016 - 02:00 PM, said:

they had like -50% heat generation too though

No they didn't. They were 10 and 15 heat at that time.

[Mcgral18]

Khobai, on 09 January 2016 - 02:00 PM, said:

they had like -50% heat generation too though

Neg.

These were 10/15 heat (ER)PPCs with a 4s recycle and 1500M/s velocity.

Edited by Mcgral18, 09 January 2016 - 02:05 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

These were 10/15 heat (ER)PPCs with a 4s recycle and 1500M/s velocity.

Nope. ERPPCs never held their own vs laser vomit until the thunderbolt got quirked for them.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 09 January 2016 - 02:15 PM, said:

Nope. ERPPCs never held their own vs laser vomit until the thunderbolt got quirked for them.

A few Clan mechs with JJs (SMN, NVA, TBR) with ERPPCs (sometimes Gauss thrown in) were viable substitutes to laser builds back in the day...

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcgral18, on 09 January 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

Neg.

These were 10/15 heat (ER)PPCs with a 4s recycle and 1500M/s velocity.

well...depends on which part of the era we speak....

http://mwomercs.com/...35-06-aug-2013/
during the height of the PPC spam and early phases of PoptartHell, ERPPCs were 11 ht, then 12 for a bit.
The Dragonslayer was released at the height of the Poptart meta, in July 2013. Clans of course, by came in June, july? of 2014. Anyhow, Around september 2013 is when Gauss got the charge mechanic, then the PPC/ERPPC got TT heat values, and then Paul went thru iterations of AC velocity nerfs, and by early 2014, we had a relative "balance" of playstyles for 4-6 months until the Clans launched and balance went down the crapper again.

But laservomit is a moderately "new" meta, less than a year old, as initially Clan Lasers were not impressing anyone, and peektarting with ballistics and ppcs was still preferable to laservomit. It wasn't until LPLs got buffed on both sides that laservomit became the defacto meta.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 09 January 2016 - 02:21 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 January 2016 - 02:18 PM, said:

well...depends on which part of the era we speak....

http://mwomercs.com/...35-06-aug-2013/
during the height of the PPC spam and early phases of PoptartHell, ERPPCs were 11 ht, then 12 for a bit.
The Dragonslayer was released at the height of the Poptart meta, in July 2013. Clans of course, by came in June, july? of 2014. Anyhow, Around september 2013 is when Gauss got the charge mechanic, then the PPC/ERPPC got TT heat values, and then Paul went thru iterations of AC velocity nerfs, and by early 2014, we had a relative "balance" of playstyles for 4-6 months until the Clans launched and balance went down the crapper again.

But laservomit is a moderately "new" meta, less than a year old, as initially Clan Lasers were not impressing anyone, and peektarting with ballistics and ppcs was still preferable to laservomit. It wasn't until LPLs got buffed on both sides that laservomit became the defacto meta.

Though, Invasion was Jun 2014, which was what I'm referring to.

Your graph? Maybe throw that in there, as it shows that shortly after, speed nerf, but static heat.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcgral18, on 09 January 2016 - 02:25 PM, said:

Though, Invasion was Jun 2014, which was what I'm referring to.

Your graph? Maybe throw that in there, as it shows that shortly after, speed nerf, but static heat.

not my graph, actualyl (forget who made it) but it's a handy one.

Would note the poptart meta was already largely dead months before the invasion, though.

[Fastwind]

Sader325, on 09 January 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

First step: Remove all PPC quirks from all mechs quirked for PPC's and ER PPC's.

Second Step: Add a new firemode to all PPC's and ER PPC's.

Charged Fire Mode.

Holding down the fire button on PPC's and ERPPC's will allow the weapon to begin charging (exactly the same as Guass Rifle Mechanic with the same charge time.)

Result:

A Charged PPC shot will now do damage below 90 meters but heat gen will be increased by 20%.

A charged ER-PPC shot will travel at 40% increased velocity and do 10% more damage but heat gen will be increased by 10%.

PPC's and ER PPC's will still be able to "snap fire" the same way they fire now, but with no additional speed/damage bonuses.


Good idea? Bad Idea? Discuss.

very bad idea because the game is already to laser heavy and to brawly
sniper weapons need huge buffs no nerfs as it is right now

[Mcgral18]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 January 2016 - 02:40 PM, said:

not my graph, actualyl (forget who made it) but it's a handy one.

Would note the poptart meta was already largely dead months before the invasion, though.

I remember being able to bring my 2H Poptart (for dat 30% bonus) alongside Clans.

A random scenario I recall for some reason was Poptarting in a 2 man alongside a TimberGod, trolling an Atlas by removing both his STs (while popping vertically, where he couldn't shoot us) and while he was a stick, he started calling us Hackers.
It made me laugh.
But more relevant, the Timby Poptart and Shaq Hawk poptarts were still things at that point.


When were the HoverJet™ nerfs? Because PPCs would have still had 1500M/s at that point. Class 1s and maybe 2s were gimped at that point, but the 2J uses 4s and the Timby Class 3s.


Of course, we could also have been using gimped tech for the fun of it...this was before the Cbill release of Clams, at any rate.

Edited by Mcgral18, 09 January 2016 - 02:52 PM.

[VinJade]

so in other words you want to ruin the PPCs?
its bad enough that the standard one has been wrecked badly you want to make the PPC more or less useless?
If it was a charge up weapon then you damn well better give it 100% more damage, 100% more range, & a 100% more speed.

Dumb Idea, yes?
same can be said about the charge up idea for the PPC.

[LordNothing]

making ppcs worse is not the answer.

[VinJade]

@LN
There are only one type of person who would ever want to wreak a good weapon, they don't like people using it against them or see them as OP(Even if they are far from it).

[BigBenn]

F no. Not only do the PPC's not need a "charge up" of any kind, the gauss NEEDS to have it removed.

IIRC, there are other weapons in Battletech lore that do in fact of a charge up. When those enter MWO you will get your wish. Until then.... F no. No charge up to anything. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings.

[Sable]

No thanks man. The PPCs don't need a new mechanic they just need small tweaks. I think regular PPCs are fine, if they didn't have a minimum range there would be no reason to take ER PPCs on the IS side. IS ERPPCs just need slightly lower heat say, 13 or 14 or even 13.5 for the extra benefit of hitting closer and farther targets. Clan ERPPCs should stay at 15 heat but the damage should go up to 13 with 1 point on either side component. That would give it a bigger bite to justify the extra heat. See, simply adjustments without a lame charge up. NO ONE LIKES CHARGE UPS

Edited by Sable, 09 January 2016 - 03:24 PM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

I have a novel idea:

How about we just ******* un-nerf the goddamned things?

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 January 2016 - 02:18 PM, said:

well...depends on which part of the era we speak....

http://mwomercs.com/...35-06-aug-2013/
during the height of the PPC spam and early phases of PoptartHell, ERPPCs were 11 ht, then 12 for a bit.
The Dragonslayer was released at the height of the Poptart meta, in July 2013. Clans of course, by came in June, july? of 2014. Anyhow, Around september 2013 is when Gauss got the charge mechanic, then the PPC/ERPPC got TT heat values, and then Paul went thru iterations of AC velocity nerfs, and by early 2014, we had a relative "balance" of playstyles for 4-6 months until the Clans launched and balance went down the crapper again.

But laservomit is a moderately "new" meta, less than a year old, as initially Clan Lasers were not impressing anyone, and peektarting with ballistics and ppcs was still preferable to laservomit. It wasn't until LPLs got buffed on both sides that laservomit became the defacto meta.

One of the things most people forget is that the Dragonslayer wasn't a popular poptart when it was introduced. The CTF-3D and HGN-732 were still prince and king since there was no ghost heat yet so the king was the trip-PPC/Gauss 732 and the faster CTF-3D. Then we got ghost heat and people switched over to the double UAC/PPC 733C and CTF-3D.

Then the Gauss charge up saw people switch the 3D over to double AC5/PPC builds. We didn't see Dragonslayers until the first HGN JJ nerf. And people took the Dragonslayers since they couldn't just take six CTF-3Ds.

I kinda miss poptarting and feel that with the current meta of 50+ damage laser alphas and extremely tanky SRM brawler mechs that poptarts would no longer be the boogeyman.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 09 January 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

One of the things most people forget is that the Dragonslayer wasn't a popular poptart when it was introduced. The CTF-3D and HGN-732 were still prince and king since there was no ghost heat yet so the king was the trip-PPC/Gauss 732 and the faster CTF-3D. Then we got ghost heat and people switched over to the double UAC/PPC 733C and CTF-3D.

Then the Gauss charge up saw people switch the 3D over to double AC5/PPC builds. We didn't see Dragonslayers until the first HGN JJ nerf. And people took the Dragonslayers since they couldn't just take six CTF-3Ds.

I kinda miss poptarting and feel that with the current meta of 50+ damage laser alphas and extremely tanky SRM brawler mechs that poptarts would no longer be the boogeyman.

oh, I remember. I remember my comp overlords telling me DS was bad, then my exact build BECOMING the meta. Just like I remember Camp Tryhard proclaiming Gauss wrecked and useless.... until ACs got slow, then suddenly they figured out how to use the charge mechanic, and it was part of the Meta again.

As ever, the truth behind game meta is this: It's whatever is absolutely easiest to get results with, at a given time. Skill usually has little to do with the actual meta.