21 replies to this topic

[Armando]

Let go the delusion that you have ever been 'alone'... realize that much like the 'spoon' - "There is no Solo".... then join us as we give suggestions to PGI on how they can help others make this same realization as part of the 'In-Game" experience.

Hopefully sooner...
[snark] I don't know, like BEFORE they queue for CW [/snark]

...rather than latter !!!
[snark] I don't know, like AFTER they get their skulls crushed so hard that they find the MWO forms and write posts to complain about their horrible gaming experience...or worse yet UNINSTALL the game forever [/snark]
_______________________________________________________
Help us give PGI suggestions on how to make sure that players have the most basic understanding how to work with the 11 other people on your team, AS a team. Things like...

...Provide "In-game" tutorial that teaches the power of Focus Fire (not to be confused with Friendly Fire).
...Provide "In-game" tutorial that teaches Teamwork via Battlefield Voice Communications "best practices" (as an example: "How to find a called target").
_______________________________________________________
Help us suggest tools that make finding 11 other players you enjoy playing with easier.
Help us suggest tools that make finding a unit you enjoy playing with easier.
Help us suggest tools that make coordinating the efforts of the units and individual players that make up a House/Clan easier.

If we give them really good suggestions these things won't just be 'easier', they will be 'enjoyable'...dare I say 'FUN'.

YOU CAN DO IT !!! (It is easy if you try)
WE - CAN DO IT TOGETHER !!! (see, we are working as a team already)

Edited by Armando, 08 January 2016 - 08:41 PM.

[DarklightCA]

This is not just on PGI but the MWO Community as well. This game does need a lot better tools for players to find unit's and unit's to find recruits other than digging through thousands of forum posts but for focus fire and communication almost nobody tries to be the drop commander in pug games. Use the in-game voip tools, call out orders and try and organize your herd of cats even if you don't want to.

Making coordination and communication a every day thing in games are good steps for making pugs use to that kind of play. Some of them will listen to you, likely some will not as well. Just make do with what you got and remember that even just coordinating half your team is better than having zero coordination at all. Perhaps some pugs will release how much better the game is when you are coordinating with other like minded player's and how easier the games become and decide to join a Unit.

[sycocys]

Quite a few problems pre-match and training could be solved by this thing that's been in nearly every single MMO since 1997 called Global Chat.

[MischiefSC]

I play with a lot of good pugs in CW. The problem is that there's this dedicated core of people who really want to play CW like a pug match and take attempts to coordinate like a personal challenge.

Just not sure how to fix that.

[Armando]

MischiefSC, on 08 January 2016 - 10:27 PM, said:

I play with a lot of good pugs in CW. The problem is that there's this dedicated core of people who really want to play CW like a pug match and take attempts to coordinate like a personal challenge.

Just not sure how to fix that.

I <3 pugs....all pugs....even the horrible ones. It is the 'solo' players I want driven completely, totally, 100% GONE from the game, but that is a completely different thread posted by some HUGE A$$H073 that has no place in this tread.

This tread is all about suggestions to PGI to make every pilot who plays gaming experience better so with that in mind (Warning: Incoming wall of text)

Factions, Mercenaries, & Lone Wolfs

My suggestion: Make their 'goals' different from each other.... and by that I mean -

- Loyalists: Goal is PLANETS

The measure of a Faction is by their planet counts. The Factions have a 'leader board' and the Faction that has the greatest "+" in the +/- from their original number of planets tops the board.

Loyalist units can have a 'Faction Unit Leader Board" and the Faction Units that have taken the greatest number of planets for their Faction tops the board.

- Mercenaries: Goal is C-BILLS

The measure of the Mercenaries is by their paychecks. The "Mercenary Leader Board" is all about the C-Bills and is top by players who have made the most overall C-Bills from CW matches.

Mercenary Units can have a "Mercenary Unit Leader Board" and the Mercenary Unit that has made the most overall C-Bills from CW matches tops the board.

- Lone Wolves: Goal is WINS

The measure of a Lone Wolf is the win count. The "Lone Wolf Leader Board" is all about the WINS and is topped by players who have the highest number of wins in CW.

No "Lone Wolf Unit Leader Board"....well, I hope you can figure out why. /wink
_________________________________________________________

This is not to say that Loyalist will not make C-Bills or get Wins....they just won't be graded by it.
This is not to say that Mercenaries will not take planets* or get Wins...they just won't be graded by it.
This is not to say that Lone Wolves will not make C-Bills or take planets**...they just won't be graded by it

* - Any planet that a mercenary unit tags will count toward the planet count for the Faction that paid the mercenary's contract.

** - PGI adds the ability for Lone Wolves to take planets....If the "Lone Wolves" collectively have the most 'ticks' for wins on a planet during the battle cycle, the planet GETS TAGGED AS "Lone Wolf". Also, any planet that a Lone Wolf tags will count toward the planet count for the Faction the Lone Wolf is playing for.

I say this because I have been told repeatedly that "solo players can work as a team" in my snarky titled tread about solo's not being allowed in CW.....and they convinced me it IS POSSIBLE for 'solo' (true lone wolves) to work together as a team.

For that reason, IMHO, Lone Wolves should be able to take a planet too and demonstrate ONCE AND FOR ALL that such faith is not misplaced.
_________________________________________________

As an interesting side effect to my suggestion, PGI could have 'seasons' without having to 'reset the map'. All they would need to do is note the 'current faction planet count' then set the 'planet' (for factions), 'c-bills' (for mercs) and 'win' (for loan wolfs) counts back to 0.

Edited by Armando, 08 January 2016 - 10:44 PM.

[Uklistan]

Game Modes.

It's simple and complex at the same time. First thing would be to fix counter attack and make omega mean something other then a tie breaker kinda thing. Then integrate the solo modes into CW. Now assault could be left out as we already have that - Invasion - and in place add a new mode, like Recon.

Now they can limit the number of players per game more kinda like this:

Recon: 4v4 / Capture (conquest) 6v6 / Skirmish 8v8 / Invasion (assault???) 12v12.

They can do a drop deck per mode with tonnage limits similar to what we have currently, keeping each queue separate from each other but each victory adds to the overall status of a planet. Or they can go all out and make this into a "series" to a match (1 mech per mode), and try to add some depth to the game.

Another Idea would be to just ad CW into the tutorial and not allow novice pilots enter the CW queue until they've completed that portion of the tutorial.

Oh and: HI ARMANDO! You still the cookie warrior?

[Armando]

Grothlamarath, on 08 January 2016 - 10:43 PM, said:

Game Modes.

It's simple and complex at the same time. First thing would be to fix counter attack and make omega mean something other then a tie breaker kinda thing. Then integrate the solo modes into CW. Now assault could be left out as we already have that - Invasion - and in place add a new mode, like Recon.

Now they can limit the number of players per game more kinda like this:

Recon: 4v4 / Capture (conquest) 6v6 / Skirmish 8v8 / Invasion (assault???) 12v12.

They can do a drop deck per mode with tonnage limits similar to what we have currently, keeping each queue separate from each other but each victory adds to the overall status of a planet. Or they can go all out and make this into a "series" to a match (1 mech per mode), and try to add some depth to the game.

Another Idea would be to just ad CW into the tutorial and not allow novice pilots enter the CW queue until they've completed that portion of the tutorial.

Oh and: HI ARMANDO! You still the cookie warrior?

What up G???

Thank you for the suggestion, the more and better that get posted in this tread....the better the chance of an improved gaming experience for everyone.

Am I "still the cookie warrior"?...

While I OWN every variant of every chassis in the game (all cookies R belong ME), I have 8-12 variants that are not mastered (yet). Since my definition of "Cookie Warrior" is owning AND mastering every variant of every chassis in the game...I must admit;

...not at the moment. /sadface ... but SOON™

Edited by Armando, 08 January 2016 - 11:07 PM.

[KinLuu]

There are 24 players in Community Warfare.

Me 1x

People that I need to farm 12x

People that try to steal my farm 11x

Looks pretty much like a solo-mode to me.

[Willard Phule]

KinLuu, on 08 January 2016 - 11:51 PM, said:

There are 24 players in Community Warfare.

Me 1x

People that I need to farm 12x

People that try to steal my farm 11x

Looks pretty much like a solo-mode to me.

That part there is easy to solve. Assuming it's a problem.

Right now, the people that you're able to farm are there because there is nothing separating the very bad from the very good like there is in the solo queue (or "quickplay" as it's being called now). And since there isn't anything to protect them from the seal harvesters, they get to drop in some of the worst possible mechs ever designed. Nevermind that they can't open any of the skill trees or put a single module in them (Radar Deprivation is required for seal hunting).

As for the OP's original point...I wish you luck man. You'll find that the majority of the players are casual with no desire or time to dedicate to a unit. But, hey, dare to dream man.

[Armando]

KinLuu, on 08 January 2016 - 11:51 PM, said:

There are 24 players in Community Warfare.

Me 1x

People that I need to farm 12x

People that try to steal my farm 11x

Looks pretty much like a solo-mode to me.

Sounds to me like you are not some "'solo' playing scrub"....sounds to me like you are a Lone Wolf, but if you want to identity yourself as a "'solo' paying scrub" I'm not going to ask you to stop (waste of both our times).

What I would like from you is your thoughts and suggestions on how PGI can develop tools and resources that makes playing CW as a Lone Wolf a more enjoyable experience for both YOU (as a Lone Wolf) and EVERYONE else too. Fill in the blank in the following sentence...

My CW gaming experience would have been better if PGI would have informed me of _______________________ before I stated playing CW as a Lone Wolf.

Just because you are a Lone Wolf doesn't mean you are incapable of being a great pilot, or that your thoughts / suggestions to make the game better for EVERYONE are any less valuable than mine...just because I happen to enjoy playing the game with the 1000+ friends I have made over the years playing MWO.

[snark] That is, unless you really are just a selfish solo scrub who has no clue how to actually play the game, and has nothing of value to contribute to this sort of conversation.[/snark]

Willard Phule, on 09 January 2016 - 03:59 AM, said:

As for the OP's original point...I wish you luck man. You'll find that the majority of the players are casual with no desire or time to dedicate to a unit. But, hey, dare to dream man.

While IMHO it is true that the single 'best practice' in the "CW best practice' guide...the ONE thing a pilot can do to receive MAXIMUM increase in their game playing experience is... "FIND A UNIT", that doesn't mean I don't care about how we can help PGI make their game playing experience better people who like to play as a "Lone Wolf".

Suggestions on how to improve the gaming experience for players who are 'casual with no desire or time to dedicate to a unit' are not only welcomed but ENCOURAGED...this is the group that most needs their experience improved the most IMO.

I also agree with you that it takes far, Far, FAR to much time to find a unit in the current game state. (you observation is a keen one IMO). SO, What I would like from you is to fill in the blanks for this sentence...

If PGI made __________________ change, it would result in the reduction in the average time it takes for a player to find 11 teammates they ENJOY playing with.

Edited by Armando, 09 January 2016 - 09:49 AM.

[PFC Carsten]

l)arklight, on 08 January 2016 - 09:30 PM, said:

This is not just on PGI but the MWO Community as well. This game does need a lot better tools for players to find unit's and unit's to find recruits other than digging through thousands of forum posts but for focus fire and communication almost nobody tries to be the drop commander in pug games. Use the in-game voip tools, call out orders and try and organize your herd of cats even if you don't want to.

Which is true as much for the guys bearing unit tags as well, I might add. They of all should know better and take responsibility.

[PerfectDuck]

We've had a lot of internal discussions within our unit about our experiences trying to get pug players to work together as a team. It is tiresome, an exercise in futility, and degrading. Even when we are at our nicest, most constructive, accommodating, forgiving, and showing very reasonable expectations with a sensible plan and how to go about it, we are still constantly met with strong, Independent solo players who rudely tell our guys to take our suggestions and what bodily orifice they should go into.

That is not to say that we haven't had some really good experiences communicating either and often times there are a lot of solo players who are happy to know what the hell's going on but alas if only that were everyone.

Every day we're out of Kurita we miss the Kurita teamspeak hub. Picking up players who are ready to talk with us on Teamspeak is so much better than pugs.

[KinLuu]

Armando, on 09 January 2016 - 09:31 AM, said:

What I would like from you is your thoughts and suggestions on how PGI can develop tools and resources that makes playing CW as a Lone Wolf a more enjoyable experience for both YOU (as a Lone Wolf) and EVERYONE else too.

A Gamemode that encourages or even requires teamwork and team coordination would be a start.

Right now CW is so bland, repetitive and primitive that communication and coordination is not really required to succeed.

[PerfectDuck]

KinLuu, on 09 January 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

A Gamemode that encourages or even requires teamwork and team coordination would be a start.

Right now CW is so bland, repetitive and primitive that communication and coordination is not really required to succeed.

Then by all means, come and fight one of our NS 12-mans without communication or coordination and roll over us. Lack of teamwork is completely a non-factor in one-sided opponent pairings. In fact, you can still have a very close game vs any organized 12-man if everyone on your side has chat and voip disabled and go run off and do their own thing. 'Seal-clubbing' which the great minds of the forums are desperately hoping to eliminate? Nah not an issue at all.

[KinLuu]

PerfectDuck, on 09 January 2016 - 11:31 AM, said:

Then by all means, come and fight one of our NS 12-mans without communication or coordination and roll over us. Lack of teamwork is completely a non-factor in one-sided opponent pairings. In fact, you can still have a very close game vs any organized 12-man if everyone on your side has chat and voip disabled and go run off and do their own thing. 'Seal-clubbing' which the great minds of the forums are desperately hoping to eliminate? Nah not an issue at all.

How much of the advantage a large Group has is coordination and how much is skill (or more precisely put, knowing what to do, what not to do and when to act, that comes with experience)? By dropping as a large group, you significantly reduce the risk of getting duds on your team.

Edited by KinLuu, 09 January 2016 - 11:36 AM.

[PerfectDuck]

I'll take a newbie player in non-elited deck who's willing to work with us in teamspeak that we picked up on the House Kurita hub and not even a member of our unit, over a skilled player with bad solo habits and refuses to move with us when the order is called and share his armor during the fight any day, any time.


Edit: When we're not a full 12-man and we need fillers, it is an enormous and drastic difference having people who listen and are with us on teamspeak versus random pug players. Night and day difference. Win every single game in a row for hours straight when we've got guys on TS wheras we drop our expectations very low and take losses when we can't get a full 12 on comms with us.

Edited by PerfectDuck, 09 January 2016 - 11:42 AM.

[KinLuu]

PerfectDuck, on 09 January 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:

a skilled player with bad solo habits and refuses to move with us when the order is called and share his armor during the fight any day, any time.

IMHO that is one of the major things that defines a skilled player.

[MischiefSC]

KinLuu, on 09 January 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

A Gamemode that encourages or even requires teamwork and team coordination would be a start.

Right now CW is so bland, repetitive and primitive that communication and coordination is not really required to succeed.

Okay, let me put it to you this way.

Take two groups of players of equal skill and same caliber of mechs. One group uses TS, calls targets and coordinates a strategy. The other just wings it.

Who's more likely to win?

PerfectDuck, on 09 January 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:

I'll take a newbie player in non-elited deck who's willing to work with us in teamspeak that we picked up on the House Kurita hub and not even a member of our unit, over a skilled player with bad solo habits and refuses to move with us when the order is called and share his armor during the fight any day, any time.


Edit: When we're not a full 12-man and we need fillers, it is an enormous and drastic difference having people who listen and are with us on teamspeak versus random pug players. Night and day difference. Win every single game in a row for hours straight when we've got guys on TS wheras we drop our expectations very low and take losses when we can't get a full 12 on comms with us.

THIS is why I want the CW maps and gamemodes in pug/group queue. For people who really just want to play the modes, let them. Trying to force them into CW just hurts everyone. They sandbag their faction, they get frustrated over getting stomped because the way they want to play CW is inherently inferior to how CW is meant to be played and their being so bad at it just upsets everyone they drop with.

CW is hardmode. It's not league play, but compared to pug/group queue it's certainly hardmode. Most games have a hardmode option and you can play it or an easier mode at your leisure. Some people click that to start. Some go there after they've beaten the game on normal. Some flip from hardmode to easymode from time to time. That's all okay.

The point though is that you make sure the CW population is there because they want to be and they know what it is and you get a better overall environment. Honestly? At least for Davion, if you removed 20% of the dedicated 'I play CW like the pug queue' players you'd pick up a TON of unit players. Frustration with people who just sandbag match after match after match in CW has left it unpalatable for people who really enjoy teamwork and coordination.

If being able to play the CW gamemode and maps in pug queue would 'kill' CW, then CW is an absolute failure and PGI needs to fix it or get rid of it. If it can't stand on the value of its design then let it fail. Personally I think that, especially with CW 3 being as good as PGI implies, CW would stand just fine.

[StUffz]

I don't mind if solo players join CW, however they should know that teamgoals are prior to personal goals.
If they stick with the team, there isn't a problem.
Further we invite everybody to join TS or we communicate with them via voicechat.
If the player still ignores our advises. Well, he dies alone then. Anyhow, we met good solo players in our faction and they are more than willing to cooperate. So rather than making CW an exclusive mode for Units, maybe make just the preferences for CW more visual to the solo player that they understand it's not about being superman on the battlefield rather than it's more like being the Avengers.

[Armando]

With permission from the OP I am re-posting a suggestion on how to set up Faction Voting. As you read it, or ANY suggestion posted in the thread (especially my posts) please ask yourself the following questions...

What is missing from this suggestion?
What is in this suggestion that could cause "issues"?
What is good about this, but could use "refinement"?

Tesunie, on 08 January 2016 - 07:59 PM, said:

As already mentioned... Loyalist Voting to determine the attack lane for a "phase". Would give the Loyalists the control on where they are attacking, while leaving mercs (win, lose, large small, whatever) to still change factions and fight as they wish, however it would be at the targets designated by the faction.

Voting would be done by Loyalists (those with a permanent contract with a faction), and would probably be best to not be directed at a specific world, but just a faction. We do have a fairly good attack lane algorithm now. Might as well keep it in and use it. Only difference is, instead of having attack lanes on all boarder factions, it would be a select and voted faction. (Or two if need be even for balance and activity.)

As someone else stated, voting times would probably be open for 24 hours on the next 24 hour phase of attacks. So Loyalists would vote a day in advance for their targets (maintaining the 3 "waves" we have now, with ceasefires included), with the individual worlds selected by the computer.

Personally, I'd rather see one cease fire phase to determine a planet switching per day, but have it be total win percentage on each planetary territory determine if that planet will turn or not, instead of whatever was the last match played on it. Ghost drops could count for a smaller rating on this win percentage. I think this would really go a long ways towards helping CW, but that's just my opinion.

I believe it would be to determine what faction your faction is actually attacking, rather than specific planets. If I understand the proposed concept by PGI.

As mentioned above (but just to make sure I'm being clear, encase I missed anything):
- It could/would/should be any individual player with a loyalist contract with that faction that gets a vote.
- The vote would be majority rules.
- Probably a 24 hour period to vote for the next day's attack lane.
- It's not designed to stop "big bad mercs" from winning. It's suppose to give better direction, reduce the queue sizes by reducing the number of planets being contested, and give Loyalists direction over their faction including the mercs who have been hired by their faction.

Thank you to the OP for permission to re-post, and thank you to the OP for making a suggestion designed to make the MWO game playing experience better for EVERYONE who plays the game.

Edited by Armando, 10 January 2016 - 09:36 AM.