93 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

The mechs are remarkably similar, size wise, at any rate (as you'd expect)



http://imgur.com/a/cmgvU

Alwrath, on 12 January 2016 - 01:16 PM, said:

Scrubs rely on laser vomit, because they lack the skill to be truly good at everything ( brawling, sniping, etc )

Not, of course, the damage threshold.
That would be crazy talk.

[kapusta11]

Khobai, on 12 January 2016 - 12:34 PM, said:

I think theyre fine on mechs with oversized hitbox issues like the dragon with its massive CT.

but structure quirks are highly questionable on mechs like the blackjack, why is that thing as tanky as an assault? it makes no sense and its in no way balanced.

The fastest way to kill a mech with cXL is to CT core it. The fastest way to kill IS mech with XL engine is to ST core it. BJ essentially has cXL because quirks give it the same ST HP as unquirked CT.

Checkmate clan fanboys, BJ is not OP.

Checkmate IS fanboys, cXL is not OP.

CT structure quirk can be removed, on that I can agree.

Oh and it's not "assault level armor". BJ's armor matches that of 65 ton mech if it's ST that we're talking about.

Edited by kapusta11, 12 January 2016 - 01:35 PM.

[mogs01gt]

kapusta11, on 12 January 2016 - 12:20 PM, said:

I agree, structure quirks are OP.

structure quirks on the Orion do nothing for it since weapons can still be crit'd. On the BJ is a bit different.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

kapusta11, on 12 January 2016 - 12:20 PM, said:

Looks like it should be good at poking with Gauss, 2 LPLs and cockpit all in one side. Don't own one so can't tell for sure.

ON1-IIC-B rivals my Timbers, both my 2LPL 4ERML Timber and 5ERML Gauss Timber statistically and the Warhawk that runs the same build.

The Onion-IIC-B is by far the best Onion-IIC in the current meta.

[SkaerKrow]

Based solely on the content of the original post, there is literally no problem between the IS and Clans here. The IS have a hitpoint advantage, the Clans have a damage advantage.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Mcgral18, on 12 January 2016 - 11:31 AM, said:

50HP AC20 would help that...it has 1.8 HP/Crit, while almost every item in the game is at 10.
Even at 50, it would only be 5 HP/Crit.

The AC20 straight needs it. On any mech with an AC20, the moment that component with the AC20 is opened, that AC20 is gone. I've kept Gauss for longer on open components than an AC20.

[Adamski]

There is no reason to give the IIC mechs the movement quirks, because they already get extra movement out of their larger engines, since they don't have to sacrifice tonnage at the alter of STD survivability.

[Scout Derek]

SkaerKrow, on 12 January 2016 - 02:07 PM, said:

Based solely on the content of the original post, there is literally no problem between the IS and Clans here. The IS have a hitpoint advantage, the Clans have a damage advantage.

That's the thing, it's not good to have it that way. Then you have people complaining that clans are OP, and vice versa. It'd be nice if they both had the same way, but, sadly we won't see that until new tech comes in, such as the IS UAC/10, 20, and 2.

The IS UAC/20 would definitely make some mechs viable for the IS side, as in, King Crab can rival a UAC/40 Dire Wolf in terms of DPS and pinpoint damage.

Adamski, on 12 January 2016 - 02:14 PM, said:

There is no reason to give the IIC mechs the movement quirks, because they already get extra movement out of their larger engines, since they don't have to sacrifice tonnage at the alter of STD survivability.

When did this come up? The best thing for them would be a few structure quirks at the most, and maybe, just maybe a little torso rate turn boost to help the bigger mechs, per say, the highlander IIC... that thing, is not very mobile for it's class and size.

[kapusta11]

Adamski, on 12 January 2016 - 02:14 PM, said:

There is no reason to give the IIC mechs the movement quirks, because they already get extra movement out of their larger engines, since they don't have to sacrifice tonnage at the alter of STD survivability.

It makes little sense that a mech with small engine accelerates and tosro twists as fast as the other of the same weight class with a big engine though.

[Mcgral18]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 12 January 2016 - 02:13 PM, said:

The AC20 straight needs it. On any mech with an AC20, the moment that component with the AC20 is opened, that AC20 is gone. I've kept Gauss for longer on open components than an AC20.

The magic of Crit Padding. If you aren't hit, you aren't getting Crit.
The smallest chance the AC20 has to be Crit is still 83%, while the cGauss can be 50%, the isGauss at 58%.

[Jman5]

Scout Derek, on 12 January 2016 - 02:19 PM, said:

That's the thing, it's not good to have it that way. Then you have people complaining that clans are OP, and vice versa. It'd be nice if they both had the same way, but, sadly we won't see that until new tech comes in, such as the IS UAC/10, 20, and 2.

I disagree. Asymetrical balance is a great way to give mechs their own unique flavor. Why have clans and IS if the only difference is look?

[Sjorpha]

SkaerKrow, on 12 January 2016 - 02:07 PM, said:

Based solely on the content of the original post, there is literally no problem between the IS and Clans here. The IS have a hitpoint advantage, the Clans have a damage advantage.

Scout Derek, on 12 January 2016 - 02:19 PM, said:

That's the thing, it's not good to have it that way.

Yes it is.

It's a very good thing to have the two factions have distinctly different strenghts and weaknesses. If the IS Orion has high durability + low firepower and the Clan Orion has low durability and high firepower that is a very good example of nice asymmetrical balance. The entire game should be balanced in this manner, equal total match impact but in completely different ways.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

Mcgral18, on 12 January 2016 - 01:23 PM, said:

The mechs are remarkably similar, size wise, at any rate (as you'd expect)



http://imgur.com/a/cmgvU



Not, of course, the damage threshold.
That would be crazy talk.

I actually really dig the look of the Orion IIC, it looks sleek, compared to the cobbled mess that the original looks.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

We wouldn't be having this issue if we'd started in 3025 era, and worked upwards, balancing the tech properly.

But noo... PGI was afraid to alienate the clanners for longer than a year.

[ShinobiHunter]

Khobai, on 12 January 2016 - 10:17 AM, said:

Except the meta is long range laser vomit. Hence why the Orion IIC with a UAC20 isnt a top tier mech anyway.

I dont get how comparing two Orions that arnt even effective meta builds proves anything. If you want to prove a point you need to compare the best mechs, or at least best Orions, each faction has to offer, you know the builds people actually use?

A meta Orion IIC has CLPLs
and a meta Orion has ERLLs

Because those weapons play to the strengths of the meta and their respective factions. The Orion clearly isnt as bad off as people make it out to be when you consider it can still outrange most Clan mechs.



not really. especially when structure buffs are combined with heavier drop tonnages. it draws out the attrition game longer and makes it easier to run down the clock in CW.

Meta Orion....

Meta. Orion.

Meta.

Orion.

....


Did you really just say that?

[Ted Wayz]

So your point is that the IIC's which are glass cannons are...glass cannons? Then go on to apply this to the other Clan mechs, which isn't remotely true.

I call what I smell on this one.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Ted Wayz, on 12 January 2016 - 05:41 PM, said:

So your point is that the IIC's which are glass cannons are...glass cannons? Then go on to apply this to the other Clan mechs, which isn't remotely true.

I call what I smell on this one.

Yeah, I don't think the IIC's need the structure buffs of the originals. I mean, the Onion IIC and Timber have the same hitpoints, and my Timber doesn't feel squishy at all.

Now, the difference between my Hig IIC and the originals is night and day as far as mobility. My Hig IICs feel covered in molasses.

[Khobai]

Quote

Oh and it's not "assault level armor". BJ's armor matches that of 65 ton mech if it's ST that we're talking about.

I didnt say assault level armor. I said as tanky as an assault.

What youre forgetting is that the blackjack is very small. So its able to distribute damage across its hit locations very well.

That makes it significantly tougher than most clan assault mechs.

[Lugh]

mogs01gt, on 12 January 2016 - 10:40 AM, said:

I dont think structure buffs protect weapons from getting crit'd.

But they did let me face tank a Dire Wolf tonight and while he poured his damage in to me the Timber wolves and griffins to my side shredded him, and I got the killing blow on him with my MPL....

And this was the meta 2 UAC 10 3 UAC 5 build that is so sickening efficient at killing things. I rolled the damage, and lived at 150m face to face in a black hack. If you think structure sucks, you may wish to try them...

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 12 January 2016 - 05:49 PM, said:

Yeah, I don't think the IIC's need the structure buffs of the originals. I mean, the Onion IIC and Timber have the same hitpoints, and my Timber doesn't feel squishy at all.

Now, the difference between my Hig IIC and the originals is night and day as far as mobility. My Hig IICs feel covered in molasses.

Because they have NONE of the ridiculous movement quirks of the IS...

[Lightfoot]

The only weapon the Clan gets that is better than Inner Sphere is the ER Medium Laser. The rest of the weapons are nerfed in some way to bring them in line with Inner Sphere restrictions of size and weight either through streaming or AoE, or Heat.

So unless the mechs can boat ER Mediums all those Structure and Armor quirks should be granted to Clan mechs in some balancing quantity. Basically if the mech can boat energy it gets low armor/structure quirks if not then it gets higher, but to get no armor or structure quirks is now unreasonable.

MWO's mechs have always been too squishy anyway and even with armor and structure buffs the Orion IIc will never be a brawler, but like it's predecessor the Orion, it would make a good ranged mech. I just wish my Orion IIc could carry the same load-out as my Orion Protector, but by the time it gets converted to Clan tech it is too hot and much weaker.