26 replies to this topic

[Whiskiz]

New player here, i'm wanting to test out heavies and am going to go from my medium stormcrow with 6 medium pulse lasers to basically an upgraded version, either timber wolf or ebon jaguar.

Im thinking for along the lines of medium range, high alpha/firepower per shot from peeking (mostly around corners not over hills) as i like to run with high firepower (high alpha dmg while peeking) from a relatively safe, strategical, range. roughly 6 med lasers and 2 large pulse lasers. It runs hot but with a little fire discipline i figure i still cant go wrong with 68dmg possible a shot while peeking at a range of up to 500m while still having 4.5 DPS for close range/brawls if i get caught out but i just can't choose which mech would suit this, apparently my playstyle.

I have done alot of research and even took a long hard look at both hitboxes etc but i just can't decide which mech to go, so i thought id see if you guys could help me out, any wisdom will be much appreciated.

Heres what i believe and weigh when trying to decide, from the research i have done online so far:

Timber Wolf Pro's
-Bit more armor
-Bit more compact, width wise, to make better for corner peeking, tight spot fighting and firing lines
-Apparently the CT is harder to hit/less prominent than the Ebon Jaguars
-It has jetpacks

Con's
-It has negative Quirks (though im not sure how these work, im guessing you cant mix pieces up to not receive these quirks like what happens with positive quirk bonuses. Also, whats up with these negative quirks and on this specific mech?....)
-Lower hardpoints making it suboptimal for hill peeking/elevation fighting
-It has a Bigger/taller hitbox which i guess means more damage taken and kind of negates the bit extra armor


Ebon Jaguar Pro's
-Shorter/smaller/harder to hit, hitbox
-High mounted hardpoints + being shorter makes it great for hill peeking/elevation fighting
-No negative quirks

Con's
-No lower arm actuators meaning basically permanently arm locked
-very wide, making much worse for corner peek fighting
-Apparently CT sticks out and is very easy (easier than timberwolf?) to hit
-Squishier with easy to hit CT and having less armor


So with those points in mind i have no idea which to go. Feel free to add anything or let me know if i have anything wrong.

I like the timberwolf because:

1 - I prefer corner peek fighting to hill peek fighting as hill peeking opens you up to alot more area and so more potential mechs to be hit from, plus theres alot more corners than hills that you can and will utilize? (But the low mounted weapons making it obsolete for general elevation fighting, which sometimes you cant avoid on maps with even just slopes (caustic valley, frozen city, tourmaline desert etc)

2 - I like the heavier armor of course though it doesn't seem that much extra and does have the bigger hitbox which i guess probably completely negates the bit of extra armor

3 - I like the fact its CT apparently isn't as easy to hit

4 - Most importantly, i don't like the fact the ebon jaguar looks so wide making it not as good for corner peek fighting, which seems to be the bread and butter of combat.

The only other main deal breaker for me, potentially, would be the negative quirks, but i'm not quite sure how that works and what the total penalties are between omnipod pieces. Is it calculated per omnipod piece? It doesn't really inform you how it works, it just shows total negatives for each set mech with its own full omnipod variant sets.

Again any wisdom, thoughts, opinions, general information and feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

P.S It makes it harder to choose when people i've met in the unit i joined prefer the ebon jaguar, but online (metamechs etc) it shows the timberwolf as competitively top tier, tier 1, but the ebon jaguar mostly tier 2.

Edited by MechWarrior8363812, 14 January 2016 - 11:08 AM.

[Dread Render]

of the two... its the one that costs more.

[Elizander]

Ebon would usually fit better in CW (depending on how crazy high the tonnage limit is) so it's a better investment if you play both modes.

[Crazed Marsupial]

Quote

The only other main deal breaker for me, potentially, would be the negative quirks, but i'm not quite sure how that works and what the total penalties are between omnipod pieces. Is it calculated per omnipod piece? It doesn't really inform you how it works, it just shows total negatives for each set mech with its own full omnipod variant sets.

It stacks per pod - so if you go for a variant that has three pods with a -4% quirk each - that adds to a total of 12% extra beam duration, etc. You can swap around omni pods to minimise or negate the negative quirks - to be honest the only negative quirk I really notice is the beam duration - use pulse lasers and this is less of an issue.

As for your choice of mech - both are similar mobility-wise and both can bring along a bewildering amount of firepower. Both can bring along plenty of lasers with tonnage to spare for heat sinks.

I'm personally a fan of the Ebon Jaguar due to it's ability to run all sorts of builds (ballistics, laser vomit, missile boat if that's your thing). Not as durable as the TBR - everyone shoots your nose CT - but the high gun mounts and generous tonnage available make it a nice, hard-hitting heavy. Plus with the tonnage changes - you can now bring 4 of them to CW.

If you aren't after that degree of versatility and just want the big daddy of all heavies - then the Timber Wolf will be a solid choice. It is generally considered to be the best heavy in the game (dissenting voices aside) for the reasons you describe. It's a fair bit more durable than either the HBR or EBJ so long as you twist and spread incoming damage. There are numerous builds you can run aside from laser-vomit and the mech is now of more use in CW due to being able to run 3x TBR + cannon fodder light.

Can't go wrong with either one to honest!

[Lostdragon]

TBR is a lot tankier imo.

[adamts01]

Timby is more versitile and makes a much better brawler. The Ebon Jag can run the same laser builds without the quirks and be cooler. Even running 2 jump jets on the Timby lets it scale walls on Canyon Network and speed right up the ramps in bog and Alpine. Running 4JJ, 6xASRM6 and 6xSPL beat just about anything in a brawl, short of just a few assaults. I love jets and brawling and hate CW so it's kind of a no-brainer for me.

[mark v92]

hmm. well both arent bad mechs so it realy depends on your own preferences.

both are good for laser vomit.
the ebon is slightly better with balistics (it has 1 ton more to play with as the timber has 2 tons in the engine heatsinks.)
timber is better with missiles

so if you want to try something else after a while the timber is the beter allround mech.
timbers negative quirks are omnipod bound so with some creative building you can minimise that.


all in all. both are great mechs.
i would lean more towards the timber because of the versitility but i own the ebon aswell and thats a great mech aswell

[Ultimax]

If you're just looking for a 6x Medium Pulse build then go with the Timber Wolf.

It fares better at close range, due to the size of the Ebon Jaguar's CT, and also how wide the model is (which can sometimes see you get stuck on terrain or other mechs).



If you're looking for longer range laser builds, they both run them well with a list of pros and cons that make them mostly even vs. one another (JJs & hitboxes for TBR, no negative quirks, extra weapon mod slot, better hill climb/humping for EBJ)

[Revis Volek]

Lostdragon, on 14 January 2016 - 10:10 AM, said:

TBR is a lot tankier imo.

But has neg quirks on the vomit build.

EBJ ha no neg quirks to speak of and is a better gun platform then the TBR. TBR is yes much more tanky and has JJ for greater mobility.

[kapusta11]

If it's 2x LPL + 3x ERML then go with Timberwolf.

[Whiskiz]

I edited the original post, adding the second paragraph in it to give a better idea of what the build and playstyle i had in mind for one of the mechs to help me choose which one.

People mentioned which mechs for brawling/close range, for different weapons etc when i mainly meant for medium range laser vomit from peeking but its my fault, i failed to be a little more specific but hopefully that should help.

Every bit of feedback is appreciated and i hope alot more people weigh in, knowledge is power and you can do some awesome theory crafting in MWO so im interested in reading everyone elses, who are far more knowledgeable than me

Edited by MechWarrior8363812, 14 January 2016 - 11:09 AM.

[Phra]

Prefer the EBJ. While it is squishier, it also has a MUCH smaller profile and can fit an extra DHS.

You shouldn't be brawling with that build to begin with.

[Tyler Valentine]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cc0af015128339c

This hurts things.

It's a little unconventional but it works. Most IS pilots are used to the LPL/ERMED alpha OR getting sniped with ERLL... Either way, they will expose themselves to this mech. Obviously, it can snipe if needed but the best tactic is to get into that 400m sweet spot, shoot the ERLLs first and make the IS guy think he caught a sniper out of his optimal range, he'll torso twist the 2 ERLLs and face you square to get off his alpha... nice... fire you're meds and the LPL. not only are you putting 41 into him with no twist but you also already painted him with 22. by the time your LPL/ERMED blast is over the ERLLs are ready to go and you have the DHSs to make it work. He'll do some damage. You'll take off his right side.

Good luck! <o

[KHETTI]

Timber Wolf is regarded as the hands down best chassis in the game, that should tell you a lot when making your final decision.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Also take into account the tonnage differences.

The Swaguar is 10 tons less for sometimes slightly more firepower (no neg quirks and sometimes more DHS). Which is important in group queue and CW.

The Timber is better overall, but the Swaguar is better for the tonnage and costs.

[Almond Brown]

Try these Ebon-J vs Timber Build. Both have good Left and Right side "Peeking" firepower and pretty good over-all Alpha's per Heat. Both were max'd for Laser Vomit...

Arrange Weapons group to suit.

TW

Ebon-J

Edited by Almond Brown, 14 January 2016 - 11:23 AM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Timber.

Timber has much better hitboxes that allow you to shield you CT by a huge margin over the Ebonjag.

Ebonjag might give you a tiny edge on DPS and slightly lower tonnage, but you'll get cored out much easier, so that edge quickly disappears.

[Khobai]

ebon jaguar. its way better at hill humping. you dont need to shield your CT because youre not exposing it.

but the main advantage of the ebon is that you can do 4 ebons/hellbringers as your dropdeck.

Edited by Khobai, 14 January 2016 - 12:42 PM.

[Yosharian]

Timber Wolf for 'Quick Play'.

Ebon Jaguar for CW.

[Eboli]

If you like close in brawling the TBR is the better choice. The EBJ should avoid brawling until necessary but when it does hit the EBJ can hit really hard.

As an opponent I will still likely target the TBR first based upon its tankiness and capability to get in the enemy lines to cause mayhem.

Cheers!
Eboli

Edited by Eboli, 14 January 2016 - 03:04 PM.