778 replies to this topic

[N0MAD]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 15 January 2016 - 01:01 AM, said:

Ridiculous.

1. Having or not having a unit tag is no indicator of player skill or ability to play as a team.
2. This will enable griefers to drop tags and go sealclubbing.
3. Longer wait times with no guarantee of increased match quality (see above)

and finally...

4. I wanna play with my friends from a unit - <gets a tag>, I wanna play with my friends without a unit - <drops a tag>, I wanna play with my friends from a unit - <gets a tag>, I wanna play with my friends without a unit - <drops a tag>,I wanna play with my friends from a unit - <gets a tag>, I wanna play with my friends without a unit - <drops a tag>,I wanna play with my friends from a unit - <gets a tag>, I wanna play with my friends without a unit - <drops a tag>,I wanna play with my friends from a unit - <gets a tag>, I wanna play with my friends without a unit - <drops a tag>,I wanna play with my friends from a unit - <gets a tag>, I wanna play with my friends without a unit - <drops a tag>

This i couldnt let go..
Point 1. You are absolutely correct..
Point2. Pugs are already being seal clubed by units wholesale, and most units are telling you they dont want to, they have no choice.
Point 3. Wait times i will probably agree with you,altho PGI is telling you population is at an all time high, so that should mean that wait times wont be a problem, who knows. But providing groups to play groups should and will improve match quality, that is if you beleive that fighting vs another organised group is quality rather than playing vs pugs.
The rest of your post is just well bable, but i will respond to it like you guys have responded previously, use the group Q.

[Widowmaker1981]

I forsee a lot more players running alt accounts for low stress CW stomp times, but i guess that wont be the huge problem it would have been if it was grouped vs not grouped, because you won't be able to farm cbills for your main.

[Lupis Volk]

PGI making a team orientated game mode less so to cater to greedy, selfish people who don't want to work as a team.

[MischiefSC]

N0MAD, on 15 January 2016 - 02:46 AM, said:

This i couldnt let go..
Point 1. You are absolutely correct..
Point2. Pugs are already being seal clubed by units wholesale, and most units are telling you they dont want to, they have no choice.
Point 3. Wait times i will probably agree with you,altho PGI is telling you population is at an all time high, so that should mean that wait times wont be a problem, who knows. But providing groups to play groups should and will improve match quality, that is if you beleive that fighting vs another organised group is quality rather than playing vs pugs.
The rest of your post is just well bable, but i will respond to it like you guys have responded previously, use the group Q.

Except it's not wholesale seal clubbing. Have you even played CW? When you pug 50-75% of the people on both sides have unit tags. They are unit members who are pugging. Also mixed groups, so a group of 2-12 comprised of mixed unit members and an unaffiliated who made a premade and dropped.

No matter who you are, if you are not competitive tier and drop against 228, KCom, most of MS, NS, or any other comp or semi-comp tier team you're probably going to get rolled. As the majority of matches are mixed/pug vs mixed/pug the majority of clubbings are pug teams clubbing pug teams, because 4 people willing to communicate on one team vs nobody communicating on the other is enough to swing the match completely.

I see teams of mostly tagless players like 1 drop in 20. It's rare and generally on the off-hours.

If most the comp teams gave up using TS, disbanded and just dropped in pug queue they would still end up together in drops and would dominate the pugs on the other team the exact same way and for the exact same reason. Communication and coordination. This is not and has never, in reality, been about being a unit member. It's about T5s vs T1 and T2. If there's no matchmaker splitting players into PSR tiers it's going to play out the same way in both unit and solo queue. The difference is that the bulk of units, those casual units, won't have any real reason to stay in unit tags. They'll drop and go to pug queue because the only thing unit tags is getting them is additional monthly fees and limitations because the comp tier teams will be tagging all the worlds for the associated benefits. So you'll have a pug queue with no matchmaker....

until additional crying gets the matchmaker in queues, at which point we literally have put/group queue with a leaderboard. We will have successfully eliminated CW as anything but new maps/modes for pug/group queue, we'll just have extra rewards.

Why not leave CW, put the maps/modes in pug/group queue and add in ways to earn mech bays? That way you don't have to destroy CW to get the exact same experience.

[sycocys]

More often than not mixed unit members are 6-12 man groups if they are on the attack.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

N0MAD, on 15 January 2016 - 02:46 AM, said:

This i couldnt let go..
Point 1. You are absolutely correct..
Point2. Pugs are already being seal clubed by units wholesale, and most units are telling you they dont want to, they have no choice.
Point 3. Wait times i will probably agree with you,altho PGI is telling you population is at an all time high, so that should mean that wait times wont be a problem, who knows. But providing groups to play groups should and will improve match quality, that is if you beleive that fighting vs another organised group is quality rather than playing vs pugs.
The rest of your post is just well bable, but i will respond to it like you guys have responded previously, use the group Q.

See the post of Mischief.

Whether people want to admit it or not, it always ends up with them going the path of least resistance. Q division will led to having 2 queues - 'easier' and 'harder' ones.
First the actual solos and newbies will go to the unitless Q
Then the sealclubbing lovers/c-bill rackers will follow them
Then the weakest units will disband, for being penalised for having a casual unit with entry fees and facing only better organised enemies.
At this points some other units will disband because of increased wait times and go to unitless Q.
Big and/or well organised units will get bored with nobody to fight with and will disband.

Finally - nobody will be left in the unit Q. unitless Q will be identical to current CW Q, only without tags.

Competetive units cannot be FORCED into fighting each other. It is impossible, stop asking PGI to do this. No can't do. Even if disguised as "Q division". Nope. Never. People will sooner leave the game than play in a way they don't want to.

Competitive units can only be INCENTIVISED to fight each other. Eg. with rewards for the best unit in a faction (so better to go to the faction without many units - less competition), with leaderboards that have indicators who beat who how many times (e-peen). That could work to an extent.

I'm telling this to you as an active unitless CW player. I jump around factions for mechbays and bunch up with whatever people are willing to drop with me, unit or not.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 15 January 2016 - 03:36 AM.

[Anarcho]

I think that ppl complaining about it are the seal stompers... now to stomp some noobs they will have to leave their unit.

Waiting times can be a problem, yes, but bringing a fair experience for more ppl on CW should be worth it I guess.

Just increase the rewards on unit queue, so the stompers will bite the challenge instead of going the easier way.

[Widowmaker1981]

Anarcho, on 15 January 2016 - 03:35 AM, said:

I think that ppl complaining about it are the seal stompers... now to stomp some noobs they will have to leave their unit Make an alt account.

Waiting times can be a problem, yes, but bringing a fair experience for more ppl on CW should be worth it I guess.

Just increase the rewards on unit queue, so the stompers will bite the challenge instead of going the easier way.

Fixed that for you.

[TWIAFU]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 January 2016 - 12:01 PM, said:

All it does is take the players without unit tags and puts them in their own queue. Solo players in a unit will be in the unit queue. Pretty mild change..

And none of them will be able to hold a planet.

Yea, that will go over real well.

At least the solo and non-group and non-unit players will be quiet about boogeymen now, they will be rolled over playing solo just like they do in QP.

Going to get what they asked for, QP with respawns.

Enjoy the sewer and the sh!t they made...

[Triordinant]

Sounds like a business decision. If a game mode is consistently used by only 5% to 10% of your playerbase it's not worth spending precious time and money on it. You either have to shut it down (and possibly restart it in the future) or find a way to get more new players to stay in it.

[Doman Hugin]

PGI changing who the seals are is more likely the reason for all the whining.

Instead of unitless puggers, the new seals will be solo dropping unit members.

Sounds very simmilar to group que to me.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Anarcho, on 15 January 2016 - 03:35 AM, said:

I think that ppl complaining about it are the seal stompers... now to stomp some noobs they will have to leave their unit.

Waiting times can be a problem, yes, but bringing a fair experience for more ppl on CW should be worth it I guess.

Just increase the rewards on unit queue, so the stompers will bite the challenge instead of going the easier way.

Fair experience? Wishful thinking. You realise that there still be tier 1 people vs tier 5 people, organised groups vs pugs in unitless Q? Quick play is often unfair and produces 12-0 stomps, even with random matchmaking, tier and weight class restrictions, no grouping up etc.

CW will just be less an actual Community Warfare, more like randoms with other game modes. Seal clubbers should love it. At least for some time, they will have more opportunity to seal club, with the honest units out of the picture.

[TWIAFU]

Khobai, on 14 January 2016 - 12:37 PM, said:

Russ has posted statistics go look for them

most CW players are pugs

And Russ also clearly stated that the evil 12man boogeyman is only 1% of all group population.

How has that fact stopped anyone from claiming that the boogeyman is real, dropping all the time, and is faced 100% of the time?

[TexAce]

Sandpit should change his name to Saltpit. Seriously,

We don't have 10% of the informations we will get in the town hall, we don't know 10% of what is coming specifically in CW3. Why dont you guys just give it a break and wait for the final information. Then you can still talk about how it will break everything (which I doubt).

[TWIAFU]

MischiefSC, on 14 January 2016 - 01:01 PM, said:

So long as the solo queue can't really flip a world. If I can take worlds in solo queue then it behooves me to drop in solo queue and demolish helpless scrubs.

If however solo queue just provides perks to the real battles in the unit queue and don't flip worlds, that's alright.

In our chat he also implied unit queue would have MC rewards and such. It sounded a lot like unit queue would get a double-down and solo players get removed from directly competing for worlds.

I can get behind that.

[smokefield]

Quote

And who do you think you are to tell anyone how they can have fun? Been there, done that. Was playin TDM mp games over 15 years ago. With "units", with coordination, with voice comunication. Today I prefer to play alone, without coordination, without communication, with pugs. I know how playing in a unit works and and I DON'T want to play that way. My style, my fun.

you dont want to read everything do you ? i have nothing against whatever play style you want. but the definition of CW is team oriented game. Or at least is until pgi ruins it. You can play whatever you like in public queue. If I join there then i know what to expect and will not give a damn if soemone wants to go rambo and die alone the cry why no one did the same. And the same - if you join CW then I expect you are aware of what CW means and do accordingly. This means respect for both sides. So far I see only disrespect from you for my choices and my view of the problem. you just want to go do your thing and give a damn about others. and then yell at me who do i think i am...ha.

Quote

Why not leave CW, put the maps/modes in pug/group queue and add in ways to earn mech bays? That way you don't have to destroy CW to get the exact same experience.

i proposed something similar and agree with it.

Edited by smokefield, 15 January 2016 - 04:14 AM.

[Hotthedd]

So a "minimum viable product" game is catering to the lowest common denominator player.

Never saw THAT coming...

[wanderer]

What a delightful thing for encouraging people NOT to be in units.

Or rather, not having a unit tag, getting on a factional TS and doing precisely what they did before, for the same rewards, while people silly enough to have unit tags will sit in an even slower queue while ghost dropping repeatedly.

The solution is not crippling 48v48 queue into "drop your unit tags or watch your queue times climb to infinity". It's putting 4v4 in so more of your PUGs gravitate towards smaller games where big unit-style play isn't a massive advantage.

[TexAce]

wanderer, on 15 January 2016 - 04:34 AM, said:

What a delightful thing for encouraging people NOT to be in units.

Or rather, not having a unit tag, getting on a factional TS and doing precisely what they did before, for the same rewards, while people silly enough to have unit tags will sit in an even slower queue while ghost dropping repeatedly.

The solution is not crippling 48v48 queue into "drop your unit tags or watch your queue times climb to infinity". It's putting 4v4 in so more of your PUGs gravitate towards smaller games where big unit-style play isn't a massive advantage.

You don't know yet which rewards units will have from owning planets. It could be MC or even special mechs and weapons à la Wolfs Dragoons. I'm sure there will be more than just bragging rights because your Unit's name plate is on the planet.

All this discussion is nonsense until we have more intel about Phase 3.

[wanderer]

The planet rewards would have to be solid gold ingots delivered in your mailbox, as this'll shove queue times through the roof for units.