37 replies to this topic

[Aiden Skye]

3rd world mechwarrior problems.

[adamts01]

Wildstreak, on 19 January 2016 - 06:48 AM, said:

The only reason to crank victory awards is if R&R was in the game.
What rewards are you looking to reduce? Seems you are oversimplifying a situation with many moving parts focusing only on one or a few. Overweighing wins is not good.

Total rewards would be a little higher for a win, maybe a little higher to offset the loss good players would otherwise make during a loss. If your W:L is at 50% and you always carry your weight, it would be ideal if it were the same payout as it is currently. I think the solution is that simple. There is no way for a program to accurately pay a light for his contributions outside of damage. What about my earlier example? A LL Raven sacrificing a great flank where he could pad his numbers so that he could provide ECM coverage for his team. Or a SPL Cheetah doing the exact same thing? Running from assault to assault to keep them covered from LRMs while he's out of range to do any damage. His actions can't be measured and can very well win a match. I mainly play lights and come across these situations all the time. If wins counted for a larger percentage of the paycheck, I'm sure players would start thinking "what's best for the team?" instead of running off Candy Mountain to get the kill on a 1 legged weaponless Mist Lynx.

Wildstreak, on 19 January 2016 - 06:48 AM, said:

PSR allows people to move down if their team loses.

I ran mechs with zero armor for 2 weeks, all flamers for half of that time, and was only able to lower my bar a sliver below maxed out. I honestly believe I'd be banned from the game before I could drop from tier 1.

Wildstreak, on 19 January 2016 - 06:48 AM, said:

If the main complaint is Assault, why not add an element from Conquest? I believe in Conquest you get rewards for how many points your team collects so you have some matches won by points and some won by wiping the enemy out even if your team's points are lower than theirs but you still get that point reward.
Thus give a point count for how much of the enemy base you capped over time with no point limit and a reward for that at end of match. Also allow a team to have someone refill the cap bar on their team's base.

You are rewarded for standing in the box in Assault, same as Conquest. I don't want to get in to that mode, I just mentioned that this was a fix the financial aspect of winning Assault by cap. There are plenty of other suggestions that would work as well.

Skoll, on 19 January 2016 - 07:03 AM, said:

No thanks.

I understand where you're coming from, but no thanks. The matchmaker seems to viciously hate me and the rest of WoL and as you've seen in your drops against us earlier, we are saddled with horrible teams who refuse to work cohesively. I'd rather get my cbill rewards for fighting or doing the objectives, than getting a pittance because the team refused to work together. PGI has been on the up and up so far, which is why a lot of vets are returning. Your idea is reminiscent of the bad old times.

Losing streaks suck, I was there for more than a few games starting out today. As far as solo que goes, some nights I have to bring a meta heavy mech so I can carry. I believe you were in a 3 man that match, you in the Firestarter. I think there were 6 of us in my group with maxed tonnage. Same as in solo que, it's easier to carry the more tonnage you have, max it out if you're not getting good results.

[Lostdragon]

I have thought for a long time that winning should be the biggest payout, like 75% of the rewards. I know this would make a lot of people mad, but I think it would ultimately be good for the game. It would encourage teamwork and reward support mechs and lights who harass and cap much better than currently. There are a lot of behaviors that are very beneficial to the team that can't really be measured by the reward system. If a light gets 2-3 mechs to chase it and takes them out of the deathball that is hard to reward but can actually swing the match.

[Tyler Valentine]

No thanks. Really don't like the idea of other people disconnecting or playing poorly hurting me more than it already does.

adamts01, on 19 January 2016 - 04:35 AM, said:

What's your overall W/L? You're tier 3 so you must be doing things right.

Ad hominem. Hmmmm, you're usually more intelligent than that. Disappointing.

adamts01, on 19 January 2016 - 05:22 AM, said:

You guys that drop with me... my overall W/L is 1.82 and that's almost entirely from solo que.

So there is a group of guys that drop with you regularly but your W/L is almost entirely from the solo queue? As someone who actually does drop solo I find your claim of a solo earned 1.82 very hard to believe, especially if you're "nothing special".

[adamts01]

Tyler Valentine, on 19 January 2016 - 09:59 AM, said:

No thanks. Really don't like the idea of other people disconnecting or playing poorly hurting me more than it already does.

I didn't mean it to be insulting. If you're tier 3 it means you're moving up and you probably have a positive W/L. I believe that if it is positive, out of hundreds of matches, and you're the only constant, then your performance influences the outcome more than you think.

Tyler Valentine, on 19 January 2016 - 09:59 AM, said:

Ad hominem. Hmmmm, you're usually more intelligent than that. Disappointing.



So there is a group of guys that drop with you regularly but your W/L is almost entirely from the solo queue? As someone who actually does drop solo I find your claim of a solo earned 1.82 very hard to believe, especially if you're "nothing special".

I pay very close attention to my teammates, help them with their targets, scare lights off them, fight from flanks as much as possible, provide ECM when I have it and try to coordinate the match as best as my less than elegant personal skills will allow. I wreck targets then leave them for the vultures on the team so I can focus on the real threat, rotate forward and take as much aggression as I can when my team is wrecked. So many of those things realistically can't be rewarded. There will never be a way to accurately program that, but they all lead to one thing, victory, so reward that.

My first year and a half was completely solo. I spent about 2 months in a unit, then took a break for a year. I came back in October and only started dropping with units about a month ago. I'd say at least 75% of my time in this game has been in solo que, with another 15% running as a 2-man.

[Almond Brown]

adamts01, on 19 January 2016 - 02:25 AM, said:

stuff

I hate assault more than anyone, but some people like it. Either way, there's an objective set forth, and players should be rewarded for completing it.

Fine, as long as it ONLY Rewards the Bonus C-Bills to those who do the Capping for the Win. Why should ALL players on a Team get paid a Bonus when only 1-2/3 have actually Capped and won the Match?

And Defending your own Cap can't be rewarded to just those who do that bit, as to not Defend your Cap as a Team is pretty much a guaranteed Lose. Can't expect a reward for doing SFA right?

[adamts01]

Almond Brown, on 19 January 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

Fine, as long as it ONLY Rewards the Bonus C-Bills to those who do the Capping for the Win. Why should ALL players on a Team get paid a Bonus when only 1-2/3 have actually Capped and won the Match?

Um... because if they weren't occupying the enemy they could just return to base and kill you. Have you not noticed how quickly base cappers die once the rest of the team is dead?

And if any game mode can be won by a single mech working against the rest of the team, there's a problem with that game mode. It should take a team effort to win a team game. Assault is just awful.

[Dimento Graven]

adamts01, on 18 January 2016 - 09:48 PM, said:

[Just going to bullet point your OP]

1. Greatly reduce most current cbill rewards
2. crank the hell out of cbill victory rewards.

[Your theory]It will promote teamwork, equalize rewards among all the weights, and punish selfish players who's actions get kills, but lose matches.

On top of that, no matter how you won on assault, you'll get $.

3. And PGI, for God's sake, change PSR so it doesn't trend upward and so people can move down.

[Your theory]If these people who refuse to play as a team keep moving up there's zero point to having a match maker.

[Editorial statements]

Spoiler

"But I kicked *** and just couldn't carry my noob team... " If you're so good you'll win more than you lose, don't worry. Besides, would you rather have good games, which this promotes, or more cbills and bad matches?

"MM hates me, I never win... " good players have strings of loses sometimes, but if it's a recurring trend, you're the common factor, look inward.

Edited because not enough coffee this morning.

In my opinion the rewards for certain specific actions should be rewarded more heavily than others:

1. Use of a UAV.
2. Shooting down of enemy UAV's.
3. Countering ECM.
4. TAG/NARC usage (should reward with a percentage of any missile damage done while active, ie: A commando is TAG'ing an Atlas, the missile carriers fire at the Atlas for 300 points worth of missiles, and say... conservatively 200 points are actually done, the Commando should be credited with 40 damage points, 20%, and 20% should be deducted from the LRM boats not in direct line of site of the target)
5. Staying with your lance should receive a higher reward/score.
6. Actively firing on a 'mech targeted by another friendly should result in a higher score as well.

Doing these things encourages team play, where bringing and using your UAVs, as well as watching out for enemy UAVs, whether you win or not, is rewarded as these things improve the entire team's chances.

The same for switching your ECM to counter when an enemy ECM is nearby, it improves the chances for the entire team to be able to target and hit that 'mech.

As does TAG/NARC usage...

Tweak the rewards on the certain actions that affect an entire team to encourage more occurrences of those actions.

[Revis Volek]

adamts01, on 19 January 2016 - 04:35 AM, said:

What's your overall W/L? You're tier 3 so you must be doing things right.

IF you think Tiers and PSR mean anything they we can take your opinion and throw it in the trash.



If you are such a 1ee7 PSR 1 over lord you should know PSR means little to nothing, especially if you play light mechs or fancy yourself a scout. Its jut funny you throw your meaningless epeen around in here.

adamts01, on 19 January 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

Um... because if they weren't occupying the enemy they could just return to base and kill you. Have you not noticed how quickly base cappers die once the rest of the team is dead?

And if any game mode can be won by a single mech working against the rest of the team, there's a problem with that game mode. It should take a team effort to win a team game. Assault is just awful.

You mean how quickly light mechs die to 3-4 mechs double their tonnage or more? and BTW i have seen a SINGLE DWF win ASSAULT because he did something that i know most Pilots cant even fathom.

HE GUARDED THE BASE!

W A R K H A N, on 19 January 2016 - 07:04 AM, said:

3rd world mechwarrior problems.

Bad player problems....

Edited by DarthRevis, 19 January 2016 - 11:30 AM.

[adamts01]

DarthRevis, on 19 January 2016 - 11:23 AM, said:

.........

People type "lol" way too much, I don't believe they're actually laughing loudly. I literally have an audible chuckle when you go on your little rants. So much rage.

[Revis Volek]

adamts01, on 19 January 2016 - 11:49 AM, said:

People type "lol" way too much, I don't believe they're actually laughing loudly. I literally have an audible chuckle when you go on your little rants. So much rage.

I guess....


What does that have to do with this topic? Also who is raging? You are the only one whining about having to play more then 2 games a night to get 1mill cbills.

Edited by DarthRevis, 19 January 2016 - 02:56 PM.

[TLBFestus]

Bad idea, just bad.

You can't incentivize everyone to play as a team. Sure you can convince some players to change their ways with something like that, but overall it's not going to accomplish anything near what you'd like.

If the vast majority of players wanted to work as a team, then you would not have the issue where the organized groups need solo players to fill the CW queue, 80% of players would not be dropping solo. People don't mind playing a game where they are "put on a team" to fight another team, but they don't particularly care to "be on a team".

Besides, what you are suggesting is essentially in place right now....losing pays significantly less than winning and it hasn't changed the behavior of the players significantly.

What it will do, is punish the crap out of good players on losing teams and reduce their rewards to the point that the grind becomes a cliff from which players jump off of and leave the game.

I don't have much of an alternative plan either, sorry. Best i can think of is actually improving rewards for taking smaller mechs, scouting, flanking etc., because since forever damage has been king in this game and that's how you get rewarded, especially with a win.

Edited by TLBFestus, 19 January 2016 - 02:57 PM.

[RockmachinE]

adamts01, on 18 January 2016 - 09:48 PM, said:

" MM hates me, I never win... " good players have strings of loses sometimes, but if it's a recurring trend, you're the common factor, look inward.

People fail to realize this.

[Chagatay]

I know right! I love my Commandos/Spiders/Lynxes like everyone else but I sure don't get much bling. There really needs to be bigger c-bill bonuses for spotting/NARC, free use of UAV, squirr....oh wait that isn't what is being discussed.

Carry on then.

Edited by Chagatay, 19 January 2016 - 03:40 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

TLBFestus, on 19 January 2016 - 02:53 PM, said:

Bad idea, just bad.

You can't incentivize everyone to play as a team.

...

It's not so much incentivizing people to play as a team, as rewarding, MUCH more heavily, those actions which benefit the 11 other people with you vs. just yourself.

[dario03]

I'm all for getting people to play for the team win and not just themselves but there would be problems with this. Big one being that we already had this and people would afk farm a lot. Also I know its annoying if you helped your team win in some kind of way that doesn't pay much but it would also be annoying if you did 1000 damage and killed half the team while helping cap and got paid about the same as the guy that suicided into the enemy.

[adamts01]

Teamwork is absolutely OP, but people these days just flat out don't care. Solo que been written off as "it's just solo que, it doesn't matter," and I see so much of that attitude in group que too. It's also hard to for units to get big groups together in my time zone so that's why I'd like the general attitude in game changed. I can jump in my Timby and carry, I've carried so many matches in that stupid mech. But I don't want to have to carry, I want to work with my team, I love battlefield tactics. I've given some examples of how you can get great match scores and screw your team over in the process, my proposal closes those doors. Anyway, it's just my thought, I don't want to see good players on losing teams punished, but I can't think of a better alternative.

[Madcap72]

I get 2-300K on a win and like 100K on a loss...

So.... yea whatever change how you want to. It will still be unequal due to skill more than wins and losses.