17 replies to this topic

[Kaeb Odellas]

and replace them with this!






Reasons:

-Cleans up the enormous lists of quirks we already have.
-Gives the player a better understanding of a mech's durability. "Additional Structure (CT): +23" doesn't mean a whole lot if you don't know how much structure the CT had in the first place
-Changes the way we think about durability buffs. Right now when yo see a bunch of structure quirks, you think "This is a mediocre mech that needed the help". By replacing quirks with buffs to baseline stats, you look at the mech's stats and think "Wow, this mech is tough!"

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 19 January 2016 - 03:20 PM.

[Revis Volek]

So change for the sake of change....?

[Cion]

Kaeb Odellas, on 19 January 2016 - 02:51 PM, said:

and replace them with this!

Spoiler

No that is one ugly colored Black Knight you have there.

oh the thread. uh, then how would they tweak minor balance issues?

[Lyoto Machida]

DarthRevis, on 19 January 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

So change for the sake of change....?

Sure...I see your line of thinking. Why make things more streamlined and easier to understand if we don't have to? It's how a big portion of the US economy operates, so it makes sense.

[Kaeb Odellas]

DarthRevis, on 19 January 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

So change for the sake of change....?

You can see at a glance exactly how tough a mech's components are. It's also much friendlier for new players who don't know that structure is half max armor, as there's currently nothing in-game that tells you how much structure a mech's components have.

I'd say this is change for the better.

Cion, on 19 January 2016 - 03:11 PM, said:

No that is one ugly colored Black Knight you have there.

oh the thread. uh, then how would they tweak minor balance issues?

SHUT UP MY MECH IS BEAUTIFUL.

They can tweak balance by simply modifying the structure stats. Simple as that.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 19 January 2016 - 03:14 PM.

[Donnybrook]

I'd put Structure in gray text and parentheses in the same title bar as Armor, personally.

As for the values, I imagine they're merely pulling from some flat file, so a simple data dip covers the variable for any balance tweaking.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Cion, on 19 January 2016 - 03:11 PM, said:

No that is one ugly colored Black Knight you have there.

oh the thread. uh, then how would they tweak minor balance issues?

You stiill change the structure, you just don't list it as a quirk and instead list the total combined structure value in the mechlab.

[Queen of England]

Seems like a good idea. That structure isn't really displayed in-game is pretty absurd. I do think they should still separate out the quirks, though.

So, for your example, I think the BL-7-KNT should show, e.g., center torso structure as "46+23" and total structure as "237+111" so you can see how it differs from the 75-ton baseline. I think the handful of armor quirks that are still in the game should be shown in the same way.

This would also have the effect of reducing the number of quirks listed for the BL-7-KNT from 11 to 4, which seems like it be much easier to read. A lot of 'mechs have 7 structure quirks right now. Its a mess.

Edited by Queen of England, 19 January 2016 - 03:42 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

DarthRevis, on 19 January 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

So change for the sake of change....?

It's change we can believe in.

[pwnface]

I think this is actually a good change and makes a lot more sense from a UI perspective. Additional structure/armor shouldn't be hidden in the mechlab.

[Alistair Winter]

Yeah, I made the same suggestion during the PTS for UI 2.0

Zero f***s were given, unfortunately. But I think you're spot on. The percentages are confusing and most players don't know how many structure points they have to begin with, unless they check Smurfy. Kind of vital information to know just how much HP your dood has, I think.




I also suggested this instead of the current column-layout. Remember being able to click components in UI 1.0?

Spoiler

[Thunder Child]

When I read the title, Atlas said NOPE! NOPENOPENOPENOPE! NOOOOOOOPE!

Then I read the thread, and agree that having the structure listed in the mech design interface would be very helpful. And as the Queen of England has decreed, we should have a + value to show the increase from quirks. Probably still leave the Structure and armor quirks in the quirk list however.

This should just be a cosmetic change so that people can see at a Glance how much of a buff they are getting.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

I love this idea.

I suppose that we can't see structure because all 'Mechs theoretically have the same structure and we can't change it. But it's absurd, especially with all the durability Quirks.

This would probably lead into a differentiation between structure values and Quirks proper. This in turn would allow the developer to tweak the durability of any given 'Mech without labelling it a "Quirk".

This would be a good thing in the long-term scheme of balance.
_______________

As a note, changing the labeling of something does not resolve underlying issues (namely, the IS over-Quirking/over-Structuring bandaid covering the underlying IS XL fragility issue). These issues still need to be addressed.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Queen of England, on 19 January 2016 - 03:40 PM, said:

Seems like a good idea. That structure isn't really displayed in-game is pretty absurd. I do think they should still separate out the quirks, though.

So, for your example, I think the BL-7-KNT should show, e.g., center torso structure as "46+23" and total structure as "237+111" so you can see how it differs from the 75-ton baseline. I think the handful of armor quirks that are still in the game should be shown in the same way.

I actually disagree with this. Why does there need to be a baseline structure? It implies that all mechs of a given mass should start out with same durability stats. Why should this be the case?

[Lyoto Machida]

Kaeb Odellas, on 19 January 2016 - 04:52 PM, said:

I actually disagree with this. Why does there need to be a baseline structure? It implies that all mechs of a given mass should start out with same durability stats. Why should this be the case?

Aside from hitbox variances, they DO start with the same durability stats (assuming the same weight)...that goes back to TT, of course. I think what you're trying to say is that they shouldn't have the +23 or whatever but it should just say 69 structure as the stat (instead of baseline + quirk).

[Matthew Ace]

Pretty misleading thread title, see if you can word it any better.

I like the idea overall, but like what 1 of the guys suggested above, put it in gray to differentiate from armor.

Probably no harm in listing both the internals as the OP suggested, and the quirks.

[pwnface]

Matthew Ace, on 19 January 2016 - 05:10 PM, said:

Pretty misleading thread title, see if you can word it any better.

I like the idea overall, but like what 1 of the guys suggested above, put it in gray to differentiate from armor.

Probably no harm in listing both the internals as the OP suggested, and the quirks.

The title is obviously intentionally misleading to pull more interest.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Lyoto Machida, on 19 January 2016 - 04:57 PM, said:

Aside from hitbox variances, they DO start with the same durability stats (assuming the same weight)...that goes back to TT, of course. I think what you're trying to say is that they shouldn't have the +23 or whatever but it should just say 69 structure as the stat (instead of baseline + quirk).

I know it's a TT thing, but it's a TT thing that doesn't need to translate 1:1 to this game. TT didn't have hitboxes, after all.