99 replies to this topic

[Platinum Spider]

Tywren, on 22 January 2016 - 12:07 AM, said:

As others have said, too big, at least for what it is. If it had more cover this size would be ok; if the map was reduced in size by 1/3, it would be ok even without more cover. But when you have matches where the teams spend over 10 minutes just trying to find each other (both sides were ECM heavy to counter LRMs) then you have a problem with the map.

Not a problem with the map, was a problem with the scouts.

[Wintersdark]

Zerthios, on 21 January 2016 - 10:20 AM, said:

I rather dislike this map, while it is large and that is a plus, but it is way to open, ending with most games having both sides stare at each other until one sides scouts either find a weakness or someone gets bored and runs out. This is very much a wait and bait map.

You say these things like they are a negative. I, for one, am extremely happy to have a map where having good scouts actually fulfills a valuable scouting role as a deciding factor in gameplay.

Not wait and bait, though. You do a lot better being mobile, as you deny your opposition, should they out-scout you, an opportunity to move against you as they see fit.

I have never lost a match on Polar Highlands where the opposing team just turtled. Not ever. The map is huge, and even a small amount of patience can allow you to very capably flank your opponents, and static opponents allows your brawlers to approach within short range without ever exposing themselves.

The problem, though, is that people feel they should be protected from maps where people may just play stupidly.

Iothil, on 21 January 2016 - 01:25 PM, said:

Hahaha... No. Sorry, but conquest is really annoying on this map. MASC abuse en masse and the team with the fastest light wins as the map is simply too big with too much distance between the points.

But yeah, last player diving and trying too hard is annoying.

MASC abuse? STFU. That's the most absurd thing I've read all day. Do you have any clue at all what MASC does?

The lightest, fastest mech mounting MASC is the Shadowcat. Do you know how fast the Shadowcat is, with MASC activated, for the limited time it can keep it engaged (not long, BTW)?

115 kph. Total uptime? Approximately 20%, maybe less. It's +10% speed on the Shadowcat.

MASC abuse. Give me a break. Can people just for once not whine and throw around words like "exploit" and "abuse" when they've just lost to something that was bad?

Oh: Sorry, just double checked, and yeah it's possible to get a Speed Tweaked MASC wolverine to 125ish kph.

Still slower than a Jenner without basics, not even mentioning Locusts or such.

Seriously.

Platinum Spider, on 22 January 2016 - 12:43 AM, said:

Not a problem with the map, was a problem with the scouts.

Exactly. Good scouts = wins on this map. It's the very first map where scouting is even useful at all, and boy is it ever. People are too used to maps where the teams are forced into direct contact pretty much instantly. It's brain dead, but at least it's quick and simple. I'm so happy to see scouts have a real role somewhere.

[Wintersdark]

Ashvins, on 21 January 2016 - 07:45 PM, said:

TOO BIG !!!

The size of this map means 3 min wasted just closing to weapons range at best. Most matches so far it's been 5 min before weapon range. If you're in a brawler type mech add 1-2 min to that if you can even get into weapon range before being LRM'd to death.

I like the general Ideal of the map but the distances between cover locations is too far. The distance between cap points again too far. It leaves brawlers in a situation where you "charge" the enemy and hope they don't have heavy LRM's or ER weapons, or cower in cover.

This map gives us LESS tactical diversity not more. If it was 1/2 the size it would be much better.

Nah, if the map was half the size, it'd lose the only things that make gameplay unique there.

You'll survive the 5 minutes spent finding the best attack path, and the dynamic play that results: ambushes, flanking maneuvers, etc - all things that are essentially impossible in the current maps. Oh, you can "flank" on some, but there's basically only 1-2 specific paths that can happen on. With PH, you can roll around a flank, as there's no terrain that anchors anything, no easily accessible map edges. A couple faster mechs (it's awesome to be in a fast medium here) can skirt around the outside of an enemy force, in cover, and hit the rear... and it's not only possible and practical, but valuable to do so.

ERLL builds aren't significantly advantaged, as long as you're not so mindbendingly stupid as to just walk directly towards them. Use the gullies, stay in cover. It's trivial to get into ~500m without ever giving up LOS, no matter where they're holed up. In most cases, you can get closer than that, too.

[Wintersdark]

MarineTech, on 21 January 2016 - 01:41 PM, said:

Hahaha... Yes. Sorry. But for me, I think it's a great conquest map.

You have to actually coordinate some strategy before setting out BECAUSE of its size. You can't just set out in the standard NASCAR murder ball and play "Skirmish with some spots on the map we can ignore."

It's why I love Conquest there. The ONLY Conquest map where you actually have to play Conquest, instead of "Lets just murderball their team."

In other maps, splitting for Conquest is bad, because ranges are so short. A light lance capping gets crushed by a murderball as there's essentially a 50/50 chance they'll pick the direction the enemy murderball goes. Here, said light lance can easily just skirt around a murderball; potentially tying them up/slowing them down while your own finds a good place to engage from.

Just need to think, and not just "Oh, we move to this coordinate and fight it out."

Think.

[Tarogato]

Wintersdark, on 19 January 2016 - 11:48 PM, said:

It's still possible to deal with LRM's on this map.

1: Stay the heck out of the middle flatter area of the map
2: Have scouts, find them before they find you. Light mech dominance on this map is critically important; the map is huge and having spotter control is key.
3: Stay low; don't allow multiple mechs line of sight on you. Be able to break LOS when you need to.
4: Understand ECM distances, and if you have friendly ECM, use it.
5: Don't back up willy nilly. I keep seeing people backing up, and going up hill. You skyline yourself, and you get ripped apart by massed laser fire. It's hilarious when people do that.

In regards to #5 above - I kept seeing people get hit by LRM's, and automatically start backing up and turning, the classic way to dodge them.... but then backing up the other side of the gully, just to be omgrekt by the entire OpFor.

I have no pity for the LRM phobic. They're decidedly strong on this map, but then they're very weak on several others, so it seems fair enough. ECM, Radar Derp, simply mounting AMS.

There are lots of tools people can use if they wish. If they feel AMS isn't worth the tonnage, then they shouldn't cry when they get lurmed to death.

#BestPost2016

[Tarogato]

Platinum Spider, on 22 January 2016 - 12:43 AM, said:

Tywren, on 22 January 2016 - 12:07 AM, said:

As others have said, too big, at least for what it is. If it had more cover this size would be ok; if the map was reduced in size by 1/3, it would be ok even without more cover. But when you have matches where the teams spend over 10 minutes just trying to find each other (both sides were ECM heavy to counter LRMs) then you have a problem with the map.

Not a problem with the map, was a problem with the scouts.

Can confirm. It's possible to find most of the enemy team in the first two-three minutes as a light or fast medium mech. Especially if you have jumpjets. If you ever spent more than that amount of time to find the enemy force, then your matches didn't have anybody in it that wanted to scout.

[bladesx]

Pros:
Not as one sided as Alpine

LRMS are actually threatening

PPCs are Useful instead of situational

Forces focus fire of actual threats

Cons:
Terrible map for PUGs

Open approaches:
Srms are basically useless unless your a light or medium with ecm and run above 100 kph.
Machine guns are redundant same reason as SRMS

Devolves to sniping at 600 m+ in firing lines with scouts being the only thing that can get close to actually brawl or flank

Assaults take 6 minutes to walk across the map from one side to the other (anything with 50 kph)
^ Default Urbies can cry

Don't even think about bringing a mech which is paper thin against LRMS ie. slow large mech without access to J6 cover

Any team in PUG or Premade with more than 6 lights with ecm will practically instantly win by default on conquest and there is nothing you can do to stop them. Unless you have the exact same distribution of lights or speed.

Neutral:
Sniping lines can only be ignored using tactics

There is not enough scarring of the highlands to protect from LRMs Directly > requires ECM or Radar dep to remove locks in time or avoid getting locked or spotted by chance. Not enough height to slow peaking.(personal preference)

It's on the same rotation as every other map.

AMS is actually useful for once.
command console is a lot more threatening.

This is IS extreme range meta mechs map with a mix of LRMS and Meta Scouts.

Games can be lost without the game even starting if everyone in your team by chance brought a SRM brawler or a short range powerhouse with sub-80 kph.

Highly Recommended to be bringing seismic/adv zoom and Radar Deprivation.

Would be better CW map than a Quick Play map

[Herr Vorragend]

The new map is superb! Finally tactical options and you have to THINK!
That´s great! The map shows the weakness of nascaring and deathballing and that´s exactly what MWO needed so urgently.
I personally am hoping for more maps of this kind.

You can enjoy the map by:
- equipping AMS
- savely guard your ECM buddies
- scouting and tagging, spreading information
- equipping balanced loadouts for all purposes

You will lose on this map by:
- playing without thinking
- ignoring the minimap
- ignoring information given by teammembers

So stop complaining and get to know, what MWO really is about.
Have a good time

[Danjo San]

great map, very diverse. I love it

[Iothil]

White Bear 84, on 21 January 2016 - 04:54 PM, said:

For any team that is organised and works together this is the best map by far.

Last night we actually had a brawl in the centre against three groups, they were LRM heavy and we were not. We actually won by taking out scouts and using the rolling hills as cover while we flanked round to target their LRM boats.

Teamplay more OP than LRM's...

Perhaps this map might actually educate some pilots on the merits of tactical maneuvering and flanking, since it is the only map that does not offer a tonne of safety nets (i.e. blobs of cover to hide behind).

Time to suit up mechwarriors..

Totally agree, but 99% of most public groups wouldn't find their rear in total dark, safe manage to organize smth within a few mins of game time.

[Lily from animove]

Wintersdark, on 19 January 2016 - 11:48 PM, said:

It's still possible to deal with LRM's on this map.

1: Stay the heck out of the middle flatter area of the map
2: Have scouts, find them before they find you. Light mech dominance on this map is critically important; the map is huge and having spotter control is key.
3: Stay low; don't allow multiple mechs line of sight on you. Be able to break LOS when you need to.
4: Understand ECM distances, and if you have friendly ECM, use it.
5: Don't back up willy nilly. I keep seeing people backing up, and going up hill. You skyline yourself, and you get ripped apart by massed laser fire. It's hilarious when people do that.

In regards to #5 above - I kept seeing people get hit by LRM's, and automatically start backing up and turning, the classic way to dodge them.... but then backing up the other side of the gully, just to be omgrekt by the entire OpFor.

I have no pity for the LRM phobic. They're decidedly strong on this map, but then they're very weak on several others, so it seems fair enough. ECM, Radar Derp, simply mounting AMS.

There are lots of tools people can use if they wish. If they feel AMS isn't worth the tonnage, then they shouldn't cry when they get lurmed to death.

thats now information warfare, because you need to know information of the maps as in, "distances" your and the opponents location and all this ****. Probabyl too much for the normal mechwarrior to handle since he is used to either corner and hill humping or push push push.

But in pugland movement will need more complex dynamic coordination which probably makes the map hated due to this.

Edited by Lily from animove, 22 January 2016 - 05:47 AM.

[AdamBaines]

Thorqemada, on 20 January 2016 - 04:49 PM, said:

Boring Map...but phenomenal for simple minds.

LOL

[Zimm Kotare]

Love Polar Highlands, something very different to the usual way of play, I'm seeing behaviours which are quite different to what you get on any other map, really interesting, varied game play. I don't know if I'd say its the best map in MWO, but its one of the best additions to MWO in terms of what it adds & how it changes things up.

Good job PGI!

[CorranHorn]

I have enjoyed the 5 or 6 matches I have played on this map, definitely a different play style than any of the other maps. I have been able to get in and brawl in a heavy, been playing the warhammers so haven't tried anything else yet on the map. I have also been a long range gunner, and a LRMer, all can work on this map.

Now I think PGI should work on a map on the opposite of the scale. A map that can make the whole game go quick for those who complain that 10 minutes of game play is too long for them. Something like the Shipment map from CoD Modern Warfare.
http://www.cod4centr...hipmenthuge.jpg
This way you see the opponent within say like 30 seconds, you don't have time to murderball it up, lots of cover, but only enough in one spot for like 1 mech at a time. I am sure people would complain about it, but what does PGI that half of their community doesn't get up in arms over? I think it would add something a little different to the game.
maybe have it so that we drop in, alternating teams, (Blue, red, blue, red, blue, red) in a hexagon. Or even b, b, r, b, r, r. So you either have to try and rescue one part of your team or sacrifice them. Maybe not, but still it would make it a bit different.

[Wintersdark]

Lily from animove, on 22 January 2016 - 05:47 AM, said:

thats now information warfare, because you need to know information of the maps as in, "distances" your and the opponents location and all this ****. Probabyl too much for the normal mechwarrior to handle since he is used to either corner and hill humping or push push push.

But in pugland movement will need more complex dynamic coordination which probably makes the map hated due to this.

Exactly the issue. Look at the complaints. "It should be smaller, we can't find them and just spend several minutes wandering aimlessly," "its all extreme range sniping," its just players not thinking and adapting to a battlefield that isn't exactly the same each match, that funnels them into one common engagement point match after match.

They find the enemy, than just walk directly towards them over the ridges, leaving the surprisingly common cover, then complain about getting cut apart at long range or unable to brawl.

It's player error, not map error.

[jjm1]

I would like it more if I could pick my mech and its loadout before landing in it.

Do this and the whole game will be 200% better across the board.

Hell, even its winter camo should be saved in a preset.

[Semper Bob]

The good match I mentioned in my earlier post I was indeed using ecm, last night I added ams but it still did not go as well, even in my X5. I'm just in the quick play queue and it seemed some novelty wore off for many players, there was more complaint and less coordination. But I still had fun and enjoyed the map.

[Tywren]

Platinum Spider, on 22 January 2016 - 12:43 AM, said:

Not a problem with the map, was a problem with the scouts.

Really? And how are they suppose to scout without the ability to lock on target in an environment of ECM proliferation? Call out over coms "I see something over the hill." but which hill, the map is covered with them? Call out map grid maybe, but on a rolling, white plain, without landmarks to help judge distance that's no easy task either.

An organized team acclimatized to CW could pull it off no problem, but this isn't a CW map (though i wish it where, this is just the kind of break CW needs from the MOBA map philosophy), and, i fear, is beyond the ability of the average pug drop, especially in the solo que. And if you're a first timer, forget it, this kind of map will leave you saying **** this game, and uninstalling.

[Platinum Spider]

Tywren, on 22 January 2016 - 10:45 AM, said:

Really? And how are they suppose to scout without the ability to lock on target in an environment of ECM proliferation? Call out over coms "I see something over the hill." but which hill, the map is covered with them? Call out map grid maybe, but on a rolling, white plain, without landmarks to help judge distance that's no easy task either.

An organized team acclimatized to CW could pull it off no problem, but this isn't a CW map (though i wish it where, this is just the kind of break CW needs from the MOBA map philosophy), and, i fear, is beyond the ability of the average pug drop, especially in the solo que. And if you're a first timer, forget it, this kind of map will leave you saying **** this game, and uninstalling.

TAG, NARC, ECM- Counter mode, UAV. Call location, not "some hill durr", but the map grip, they're printed on the map, and a general grid is better than "hey, lets walk until we bump into them".

A map doesn't become bad because some of the players on it are too stupid to play the game right. This map might actually help teach people to look for and share information, work together to win, maybe even diversify loadouts. Or they can QQ all day about how they get wrecked by teams that do scout, share info, and coordinate.

I ran in a PUG game in my ECM Spider, only ecm on our team, with 2 slow brawler Atlas', and scouted the enemy position, called the locations, AUV'd and dashed to one end of our line to the other providing ECM cover, until we were able to wrap around their lines into their base and then destroy them when they tried to push us off, it wasn't hard to do and most PUGs will listen if someone bothers to use coms, i had one guy who just ran off on his own, but other than that we had cohesion. If players can't do this then they deserve to lose and will not be missed if they uninstall.

[Tywren]

Platinum Spider, on 22 January 2016 - 06:02 PM, said:

If players can't do this then they deserve to lose and will not be missed if they uninstall.

So you're saying that running off the new players we just picked up with the Steam launch because of a map that requires CW level skills and equipment is a good idea. Good to know.

I've said it elsewhere, and i'll say it here; this map needs to be moved to the CW rotation.

Edited by Tywren, 22 January 2016 - 06:17 PM.