63 replies to this topic

[Scyther]

I'm just starting on my WarHammers. I run the STs with a 50/10 front/rear armor split, CT with 74/14. My first impression is that they do lose their CT pretty fast compared to other heavies in the same class (like Grasshopper say).

On the other hand, I haven't even basic'd them yet so will reserve judgement until I have twist speed etc. up to snuff.

[Lorian Sunrider]

Christof Romulus, on 20 January 2016 - 10:14 AM, said:

To those who note that the Warhammer may be thin skinned I say:
9 Enegry hardpoints
6 Energy 2 Ballistic 1 Missile hard point
4 Energy 4 Ballistic 1 Missile hard point
6 Energy 3 Missile hardpoints

For the same reason that Clan mechs don't get armor / structure quirks is why this mech doesn't get them.

The mech has an amazing twist, cockpit mounted close to the ballistic and energy torso hardpoints, and looks nothing shy of amazing. The mech is fine, far from DOA. Just get used to having a high amount of firepower with a moderate amount of durability.

Pick two out of three:

- Mobility
- Firepower
- Armor

Warhammer is quite mobile for a 70 mech, and has a crapload of firepower. So by nature it loses the ability to tank compared to the Marauder. It probably torso twists twice as fast as the marauder (hyperbole, but thats honestly what it feels like)

[CwStrife]

Christof Romulus, on 20 January 2016 - 10:14 AM, said:

To those who note that the Warhammer may be thin skinned I say:
9 Enegry hardpoints
6 Energy 2 Ballistic 1 Missile hard point
4 Energy 4 Ballistic 1 Missile hard point
6 Energy 3 Missile hardpoints

For the same reason that Clan mechs don't get armor / structure quirks is why this mech doesn't get them.

The mech has an amazing twist, cockpit mounted close to the ballistic and energy torso hardpoints, and looks nothing shy of amazing. The mech is fine, far from DOA. Just get used to having a high amount of firepower with a moderate amount of durability.

Thunderbolt, I can run 7 MPL and it can take hits like a boss. Top Dog I could run 9 MPL... or 9 regular ML. So where do you get off saying that the Warhammer is some great mech when for example the Thunderbolts are quirked for Lasers, and the Warhammer only has stupid PPC quirks which are beyond worthless.

It's a weak mech, with bad quirks, and as far as I have seen almost no viable builds.

I've managed to get 1000 damage in it before dying in CW running 6 MPL and 3x SRM 6 but i'm like a glass cannon, and I am running a standard engine with full armor and only 6 points in the back. I think even my Jagermech JM6-DD with an XL can take more hits than the WHM

[Quicksilver Aberration]

CwStrife, on 20 January 2016 - 10:30 AM, said:

So where do you get off saying that the Warhammer is some great mech when for example the Thunderbolts are quirked for Lasers, and the Warhammer only has stupid PPC quirks which are beyond worthless.

15% range and 10% heat gen is all you really need when you can mount 3 LPL and 6 ML on a 70 tonner. That's as much firepower as the BK with better mounts and in a slightly smaller package. The only difference between the BL-7-KNT-L and the WHM-6D outside of that is the BL-7-KNT-L has 5% more range and a 15% duration quirk while the WHM-6D has accel/decel quirks.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 20 January 2016 - 10:53 AM.

[Snowhawk]

It's not a "Warhammer-Problem.... There are a lot of meta- and high-Alpha Mechs. They melt your armor in a few seconds.

[SkaerKrow]

It certainly didn't feel weak, not as durable as my Marauders, but not weak. I think that it's too early to make a pronouncement on its capabilities. People are trying to force it into the existing meta right now, but that's probably not going to be its strong suit. Maybe it will turn out to be sub-par? Maybe they'll tweak it (or PPCs) later in order to make it "viable?" It's basically a totem mech for us old guys anyway. There are already plenty of powerful meta-mechs in the game.

[wanderer]

Marauders also have heavier maximum armor/base structure, being 75T to the Warhammer 70T.

The winners seem to be people using those arms to shield and going with the oft-better torso energy/ballistic mounts.

Frequently, I was seeing them lose both arms before getting shot out or even just having a wrecked ST from shooting them up last night.

[MischiefSC]

Problems with the Whammy I've seen -

It's got the armor of a 70 ton mech. It's every bit as "Tanky" as a Quickdraw. You need to be as cautious as you are in a medium.

It's fast enough to get in to trouble, not quite fast enough to get out. You're faster than almost all the other heavies and assaults so they tend to be the first targets I see, so they eat a lot of fire early on.

It seems like the smart move is to play it a lot like a AC20 hunchie. Stick with bigger mechs than you. You're a crap ton of firepower for the size but you can't take it as well as you dish it out. Stick and move, keep with an assault or two. You're more nimble than the assault so stay out of his way and move in to shoot when he does.

A Whammy in the end of a match when everyone is chewed is a hell of a lot more dangerous than early on when everyone can survive the firepower he brings.

He's a seventy ton gunboat. Play safe early match, blow it out late match. Opposite of a King Crab or Banshee.

Edited by MischiefSC, 20 January 2016 - 11:15 AM.

[CwStrife]

I've noticed my arms are getting blown off like crazy. Gauranteed I agree that these high alpha meta builds are a bit of a problem. I'm noticing alot of clanners in CW starting to run MASSIVE Streak SRM6, and those hurt like hell.... It's like 2 alphas from that and you're dead... haven't found an IS mech that does that one yet...

[Apnu]

I found it pretty durable in my games last night. It felt like a grasshopper. Since they are the same tonnage and they had about the same armor, and they both have a trapezoidal torso shape, it makes sense I thought the durability was the same.

I did get my *** handed to me a lot last night.

Some of that was because I didn't have all its basics done. And another part of that was fiddling about with the weapons load out in live engagements.

But a large part of it, a very large part of it, was the angry clouds of LRMs last night.

People took one look at the new Polar map and they went right to LRMs. Most of them were clan players. You know they're punishing us IS players for having new toys when SCRs start boating LRMs in every game, along with LRM boating TBRs and half the assaults seen are WHKs also boating LRMs.

That LRM rain was brutal last night. So I did the dirty deed and kitted out the WHM-7S as a LRM boat, it was a beast and I didn't have to trickle my LRMs at people like the clanners. First game in the thing I snagged 4,000 MXP.

I will say the WHM can't put out shots that core mechs in a alpha or two like assaults, of course it can't its only 70 tons! The WHM is a grinder, an endurance mech. By that, I mean it seems to to best grinding away going in and out of cover with laser vomit that whittles down the enemy. Being energy based, it can go the distance in the match if it lives to the back half where it starts cleaning everybody up.

With a 300+ engine the thing feels zippy. Put in a 320 or 340 and the WHM is very responsive, the torso yaw perks make it feel really responsive.

[Luscious Dan]

Seems to be about as durable as my Tbolts, and a bit more responsive thanks to juicy accel/decel quirks. Take the PPCs out of the arms if you're going to mount them, and you won't have to expose 90% of your mech to fire them both. Switching mediums to the arms, and PPCs to the chest had an immediate impact for me when using the Warhammer last night.

[JP Josh]

Xavori, on 20 January 2016 - 09:38 AM, said:

That's pretty much all the mechs in the game since PGI has never adjusted armor to deal with the fact that humans are much more accurate than dice rolls.

get rid of convergence would help this.

[Yosharian]

I think a lot of you guys are coming fresh off the MAD and that's why you're suddenly getting **** on. The MAD's hitboxes are ******* insane, sounds like the WHM's are just 'normal'. That said I haven't dropped in one or shot one yet so I can't say for sure.

[Khobai]

lol you guys paid for weak warhamer

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 20 January 2016 - 11:47 AM, said:

lol you guys paid for weak warhamer

This is actually my favorite pack so far. Nice variety of builds, and they are all viable at different roles.

Don't listen to these guys, the Warhammer is awesome.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 20 January 2016 - 11:48 AM.

[Lord0fHats]

Lorian Sunrider, on 20 January 2016 - 09:55 AM, said:

Eh, I only played a half dozen matches but I found this mech is actually decently durable, even with XL as I find it twists incredibly well for a heavy.

This. Warhammer has so-so hitboxes but oh the torso twist is lovely. You can spread damage very effectively, though dead siding isn't really viable on any but the Black Widow. The Warhammer looks and feels like a 70 Ton Hellbringer minus the ECM and with better weight freedom. Easily one of the better IS Heavies right now.

[mogs01gt]

They are pretty tanky once you up the armor.

[chewie]

Even with Max'd armour (10 on the rear, then max forward on the torsos), its hard to tell if its bad or not, because every one is gunning for it.

Between being the focus of attention, and not being able to find a build where I can do enough damage in it without having to keep watching the heat, its definitely gonna be another hard slog for me personally.

As an LRM carrier (7S), it has potential, but not much.

Boomhammer is pointless. Anything bigger than dual AC10, and your either sacrificing speed, armour or back up weapons. Or all 3.

Blaze(wub)hammer, haven't tried that blend of insanity yet.

Streak/SRM brawler, havent tried it either. But its waiting.

[Christof Romulus]

CwStrife, on 20 January 2016 - 10:30 AM, said:

Thunderbolt, I can run 7 MPL and it can take hits like a boss. Top Dog I could run 9 MPL... or 9 regular ML. So where do you get off saying that the Warhammer is some great mech when for example the Thunderbolts are quirked for Lasers, and the Warhammer only has stupid PPC quirks which are beyond worthless.

It's a weak mech, with bad quirks, and as far as I have seen almost no viable builds.

The Thunderbolt is a different mech, that is not without its faults. In CW, the Thunderbolt manages to eek in at 65 tons, and for what it weighs and what it can do it ends up being almost perfect on the ton-to-efficiency ratio. The issue with the Thunderbolts is that they are ultimately VERY limited in their loadouts - you call out the standard MPL build, and of course you could bring 9 MLas, but these are Inner Sphere weapons using Inner Sphere ranges. The quirks for the Thunderbolt help it in these areas, true, but unless you are using the quirked weapons the chassis just suffers.

I understand you don't like the PPC, but currently the PPC is one of the most balanced weapons in the game - not so strong that it's the only weapon used, not so weak that it can't be used.

The Warhammer also brings all three weapon types to the table, with a strong mix of each in great ratios. 4 Ballistic 4 Energy - a phenominal combination, and ballistic hardpoints are close to the cockpit and in the torsos, allowing for equipping of any ballistic weapon. The other chassis are likewise built, capable of fulfilling multiple roles - unlike the Thunderbolt.

Quote

I've managed to get 1000 damage in it before dying in CW running 6 MPL and 3x SRM 6 but i'm like a glass cannon, and I am running a standard engine with full armor and only 6 points in the back. I think even my Jagermech JM6-DD with an XL can take more hits than the WHM

Congratulations! 1k damage in a mech isn't a bad contribution at all - I'd hate to be the guy on the other team! I can't tell you how you feel - if you FEEL like you're in a glass cannon, I can't say otherwise. With that said, I can say, a torso-twisting Warhammer is going to be far more durable than any Jagermech rockin' an XL and dual Gauss. Right now everyone is suffering from 'New mech' syndrome - every mech plays differently. Different hitboxes are exposed in different situations. People shooting at you may be focusing you more than the Thunderbolts because they are unsure of how well the mech performs (because it's new).

I would only suggest that you give it some time before condemning the mech.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Its just another good example of how inefficient PPC's are right now as a solo weapon vs Quirked lasers.

PPC's just do not have enough punch, nor range to match up to LL's +minrange, even with the velocity quirks, all sombody has to do is push you and you're done.

ERPPC's are just uncontrollably hot in a pair, range isn't an issue here either.

Remember, we lost a good chunk of Efficiency and Heatcap last patch too, so sustained DPS with PPC's got even harder.

Now pair that with Accel/Decel nerfs + no JJ's, and low hardpoints, means you can't poke and retreat very well either, and have to expose yourself quite a bit to even get a shot off.
Recipe for fail.

Edited by Mister D, 20 January 2016 - 01:28 PM.