40 replies to this topic

[DerMaulwurf]

IS side is chockfull of mechs with 40%+ PPC quirks. And even on those you see PPCs less often than lasers. Yes, that tells you something about where in the pecking order they are.

[Rorvik]

W A R K H A N, on 21 January 2016 - 01:11 AM, said:

OP said erppcs are trash. I'm saying - they aren't that bad with all the quirks IS gets that benefit them, such as the velocity quirks on the Warhammer. Aka suck it up!

I use ppcs all the time. Laser vomit on every thing gets boring. A lot of the time the convergence is off. You are leading a target at infinity. The weapons don't converge for your target that's not at infinity. It's even more apparent on slower clan ppcs. It's also really easy to shoot under arms, through legs. Also going back to convergence and slower projectile speeds. From experience this is way less of an issue with such a huge velocity boost.

Please re-read the OP; my complaint was about the (ER) PPC projectiles getting snagged on "invisible" terrain and such, not that I was having trouble hitting Mechs far away. The fact the PPCs get a projectile speed boost is one of the main reasons I don't want to switch to lasers. However, the projectile boost is useless if the projectile is so ******* large that it blows up if it grazes the cigarette leaning over the ashtray on the balcony railing of a balcony on one of the condos in Crimson Strait...

Edited by Rorvik, 21 January 2016 - 01:23 AM.

[Khobai]

im sure lasers would get stopped by the same terrain. the advantage of lasers is you can see if terrain is stopping them and adjust the beam part way through its duration so it hits. lasers also have reliable hit detection when fired in multiples.

where ppcs are just hit or miss and even when they hit sometimes they dont register hits when you fire more than one.

[El Bandito]

W A R K H A N, on 21 January 2016 - 01:11 AM, said:

OP said erppcs are trash. I'm saying - they aren't that bad with all the quirks IS gets that benefit them, such as the velocity quirks on the Warhammer. Aka suck it up!

No, IS ERPPCs are very bad. Just the fact only a handful of specifically ERPPC quirked mechs use it in any quantity proves that IS ERPPCs are trash for its weight and slot. CERPPC in comparison can be used on mechs without energy quirks.

Khobai, on 21 January 2016 - 01:25 AM, said:

im sure lasers would get stopped by the same terrain. the advantage of lasers is you can see if terrain is stopping them and adjust the beam part way through its duration so it hits. lasers also have reliable hit detection when fired in multiples.

No, lasers can hit the peeking enemy with much less of the body actually exposed. PPCs and Autocannon rounds have bigger hitboxes than the laser beam and tend to hit the hill instead of the barely exposed enemy. One needs to aim even higher than the terrain with PPCs and autocannons, compared to lasers, to have any hope of hitting the mech.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 January 2016 - 02:10 AM.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Sadly. (C)LPLs are superior to (ER)(C-) PPCs in every way. Something should be done about it.

If I could change it, I would start with limiting ER heat to 14 and giving standard PPCs damage reduction below minimum range (like in clan LuRMs). Then see if that helped and go from there.

[Charronn]

I got rid of the ppc's on my Warhammers.Too many times dead on center my hits did not register,fully aimed and in range.
I admit I don't like ppc's anyway,too much heat for not much damage but I tried to use them.They are just not reliable enough.
Hate to admit it I switched to LPL and am seeing much better results.
PPC's heat needs to be scaled back and they need to fix the hit reg on them.

[Bud Crue]

To the OP's point:

I see the same thing. PPCs (ER or regular) get hung up on terrain more than any other weapon. Some (above) have asserted that this is because the 'bolt' or projectile is "huge" and thus it interacts with the terrain features near by (the building you were shooting near, for example).

I find this explanation lacking as many will note that PPCs are terrible for magically passing through targets as well. I believe there is a post from one of the devs (this may have been several years ago) explaining that perceived poor hit detection with PPCs is merely the 'bolt' passing through gaps in the target profile (between arm and torso for example), because though visually large the bolt is actually tiny (similar to a laser) for hit registration purposes, otherwise it would be impacting multiple areas of a target -particularly smaller mechs (ala the spread of Clan PPCs).

So which is it? PPC 'bolt' is so big that it easily gets hung up on things or its so small that the poor hit registration many have encountered is really the tiny 'bolt' passing through gaps? It can't be both can it?

[MeiSooHaityu]

Quirked up PPC/ERPPCs seem OK, but unquirked ones are rather underwhelming.

Hit reg also seems a bit "off" so if I equip PPCs I try to do it on quirked chassis, or good fast fire support units that need smaller exposure. Even at that, I concentrate on the big slower mechs since I can assume the hitreg should be better.

Lastly, I only play on North American servers so that I am not fighting the connection as well (hitreg wise).

[MechWarrior5152251]

PPCs are garbage, ERPPCs are worse. I have not used one in over a year.

[Lykaon]

W A R K H A N, on 21 January 2016 - 01:11 AM, said:

OP said erppcs are trash. I'm saying - they aren't that bad with all the quirks IS gets that benefit them, such as the velocity quirks on the Warhammer. Aka suck it up!

So firing PPC shots as super +50% velocities at quirked exstended ranges that DO NOTHING when the hit is just fine because I.S. mechs with quirks can shoot them faster and further away?

[DjPush]

The problem with PPC's is people can't seem to understand their true purpose. They are a long range energy projectile that players continually try to use for brawling. That is not what they are for.

As for hitting terrain with them mounted on your Warhammer. It's a matter of perspective. You may have a clear line of sight from the cockpit. However, from the arm of your mech, to the side and at the waist, you don't.

The PPC is a snipers weapon. A pop out and fire weapon that you can snap shot and take cover after firing to conceal your location. Cool off and repeat. One or two is the most you want to carry. It has no ammo, pinpoint damage and very long range. Of coarse it's going to have limitations.

The hit reg issue... I haven't experienced this issue. Then again, I only ever use one of them in combo with a ballistic.

[Jabilac]

I don't really have an issue using ER/PPC's even at extreme range (1200m+ on Polar). I have noticed that the actual projectile will knick almost invisible terrain but pass between the arms/torso of the targeted mech or fly right between their legs. There was a GIF posted on these forums of bad hit reg on PPCs but after a closer look you can see the projectiles fly between the mechs arm/torso and legs.

My biggest problem with ER/PPC's is the heat. 15 heat on an IS ERPPC is stupid hot. 10 for the IS PPC is okish and it can be worked around. The velocity is basically the same as IS AC5. PPC - 1100, ERPPC - 1200, AC5 - 1150.

edit:

Edited by Jabilac, 21 January 2016 - 08:07 AM.

[Malleus011]

ERPPCs are way too hot right now and need a healthy reduction.
PPCs are a tad warm and could use may be a point off their heat.

Both could use a net 20% velocity increase. If you're having to quirk every single PPC armed 'mech 30% to make them usable, there's something wrong with the base weapon.

Hitreg and clipping terrain is problematic. I've used PPCs in arm, torso, and high torso mounts (Thud 9S). It continually clips wires, trees, posts, edges of buildings, etc. You can put an LPL right next to it in the same location, and the beam will pass fine. The projectile behavior isn't great.

[Anjian]

I find PPCs viable, but its sad that to be so, the mech has to be seriously and severely quirked for it, unlike lasers. That highlights its problem, and that shows its on a poorly balanced side. Got to admit I like it on the Marauder 3R best, more than on the Warhammer. Without severe quirks, Clan PPCs just isn't as viable as the pulse lasers.

[Grimlox]

I took my 2x PPC blackjack BJ-3 out on Polar Highlands yesterday and had a match where it seemed like I had over half the match of steady hill humping where I hit so many times I figured I must be around 900 dmg with all the PPC shots I got in. By the time the match was over I only managed about 550 dmg. I did the same amount of damage in half the time with my 2XAC2 Blackjack on the same map.

I believe the velocity quirks made the IS PPCs way better for long range sniping but maybe I needed ER PPC's as the total damage must have been reduced by the fairly long ranges the snipe battle was happening on Polar. Of course the second I switch to ERPPC's I will drop on Caustic and get bum rushed and be too hot to accomplish anything.

Anyways I guess my point is high mount PPC's work great on the new map especially with the velocity quirked mechs, but on most maps you either don't have as much opportunity to put those PPC's to good work due to extreme heat, terrain issues, or the hardpoint locations on your mech.

[Almond Brown]

DerMaulwurf, on 21 January 2016 - 01:21 AM, said:

IS side is chockfull of mechs with 40%+ PPC quirks. And even on those you see PPCs less often than lasers. Yes, that tells you something about where in the pecking order they are.

Not sure what you consider "chockfull" but a quick check finds 7 Mechs with PPC Velocity @+40% and a mere 2 Mechs with (er)PPC Velocity @+40%.

Care to define what "chockfull" really means for all us other lay persons...

[Coralld]

The hit reg issue is the biggest problem here, what ever is causing it needs to be resolved. I have no problem with it's velocity and on mechs that give it even more speed sure does making hitting things easier but that does little good when hit reg decides to derp. Again, singles appear to be far more reliable than group fire which is a work around but their should be no reason why it should be the only way to be reliable.

[Kmieciu]

PPCs have been obsolete ever since LPL buffs...

[Roadkill]

Rorvik, on 20 January 2016 - 10:51 PM, said:

Actually, that's not quite true, as I've noticed an "issue" with the MGs convergence.

MGs don't have convergence. They are a cone-of-fire hitscan weapon. The graphics you see on the screen are just pretty graphics - they have nothing to do with the actual function of the weapon.

[Rorvik]

Almond Brown, on 21 January 2016 - 10:16 AM, said:

Not sure what you consider "chockfull" but a quick check finds 7 Mechs with PPC Velocity @+40% and a mere 2 Mechs with (er)PPC Velocity @+40%.

Care to define what "chockfull" really means for all us other lay persons...

This brings up a good point: do PPC quirks affect ER PPCs as well, or just PPCs? Two of the WHM come with ER PPCs but only have PPC quirks. I tested this out on Polar Highlands with the 6S and both PPC and ER PPC seem to have the same velocity. On a subsequent test with the TDR-9S, which only has ER PPC quirks, the ER PPC was slightly faster than the PPC projectile, which seems to indicate PPC quirks applies to "all PPC" weapons.