13 replies to this topic

[Funkmaster Rick]

So I was running my AS7-D-DC some days back. I recalled getting hit by two gauss rifles at fairly close range. My armour was not breeched, yet the A/C20 in my RT died from the hit. As far as I can recall, not even my back armour was actually breeched at the time. I didn't die, so I had a moment to confirm this.

I've heard that barrier ratings and such aren't used in MWO, that nothing is supposed to be able to touch your internals without stripping all armour on that location first. Is it possible that the AS7's RT gun can be critted by hitting the barrel directly? Am I wrong about BAR ratings? Or should I just fire my mechanic and pray harder to RNGesus?

Edited by Funkmaster Rick, 21 January 2016 - 10:54 AM.

[Tyler Valentine]

I'm pretty sure you can not take a critical hit without losing all of your armor... like 98% sure. Did you look at your paper doll right after it happened? Any damage? Screenshot?



EDIT: *your

Edited by Tyler Valentine, 21 January 2016 - 11:01 AM.

[Khobai]

ammo explosions can crit through armor, thats the only thing in the game that does

did you have an arm or leg get blown off that contained ammo? if your arm/leg was blown off it was an ammo explosion that transferred directly into your side torso internals.

Quote

My armour was not breeched

another thing about crits is that a gauss rifle can do 14.9 damage to armor and 0.1 damage to internal structure and can still crit out 1-3 components. so it could very well look like your structure wasnt damaged on the ragdoll but you still suffer crits anyway because of like the 0.1 damage that got through.

the game doesnt care about the actual amount of damage that bleeds through to structure, it only cares that ANY amount of internal structure got damaged, and when it rolls for crits it uses the original damage of the weapon rather than the actual amount of damage that bled through, to determine how much damage items take on a critical hit.

its really stupid but thats how it works.

Edited by Khobai, 21 January 2016 - 11:20 AM.

[veedubfreak]

Khobai, on 21 January 2016 - 11:07 AM, said:

ammo explosions can crit through armor, thats the only thing in the game that does

did you have an arm or leg get blown off that contained ammo? if your arm/leg was blown off it was an ammo explosion that transferred directly into your side torso internals.



another thing about crits is that a gauss rifle can do 14.9 damage to armor and 0.1 damage to internal structure and can still crit out 1-3 components. so it could very well look like your structure wasnt damaged on the ragdoll but you still suffer crits anyway because of like the 0.1 damage that got through.

the game doesnt care about the actual amount of damage that bleeds through to structure, it only cares that ANY amount of internal structure got damaged, and when it rolls for crits it uses the original damage of the weapon rather than the actual amount of damage that bled through, to determine how much damage items take on a critical hit.

its really stupid but thats how it works.

Wow, that is up there with Heat Scale on the terrible code list.

[MrMadguy]

Happened to me many times. AC/20 gets destroyed right through my armor. Noticed it on Atlas only and only with AC/20. I.e. you are fresh. Meet somebody 1 vs 1. He shoots. One Alpha is obviously not enough to strip your RT armor + deal enough damage to internals (AC/20 has 18hp). You want to shoot your AC/20 in return and BAM...notice, that you don't have it. Various enemies, various situations - but it always ends like that. Some sort of stealth AC/20 nerf.

Edited by MrMadguy, 21 January 2016 - 11:52 AM.

[LordNothing]

when i was leveling atlases i noticed that my ac20 got critted out a lot. seemingly more than any other mech with a torso autocannon. i know my maurader never had this problem. though i have a feeling people just know where to hit an atlas and that st hitbox is a very big easy to hit target.

Edited by LordNothing, 21 January 2016 - 11:48 AM.

[KahnWongFuChung]

OP I and many others way back to Closed Beta have tried to tell PGI that Armor is useless and even full armor does not work as intended.

Then on top of the armor is useless all types there is the high crit to shot ratio I think its like a crit every 4 shots which is abnormally high.

Combine the 2 problems together and you get weak useless mechs overall and it does not matter if you run Clan or IS mechs.
The only loophole to the 2 problems with the mechs is run a spider-Arctic Cheater or similar small mechs with ultra small hitboxes.

Edited by KahnWongFuChung, 21 January 2016 - 12:00 PM.

[nehebkau]

@op

you should probably log a ticket with support and direct them to this thread. From my understanding this should not be happening if things are the way you describe.

[ReemusX]

I had a similar post earlier about this. Getting popped within seconds. I run a KGC with dual ac20s.... luckily I don't suffer as badly since the arms are hard to hit... but I have had my ammo pop and heat sinks through armor on occasion.

[Khobai]

Quote

when i was leveling atlases i noticed that my ac20 got critted out a lot. seemingly more than any other mech with a torso autocannon.

well people do aim for it on the atlas. because the atlas is basically a walking joke without its ac20.

thats why the atlas-D gets a reduced chance to suffer critical hit quirk. to help protect the ac20.

Edited by Khobai, 21 January 2016 - 12:13 PM.

[Funkmaster Rick]

Tyler Valentine, on 21 January 2016 - 11:01 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure you can not take a critical hit without losing all of your armor... like 98% sure. Did you look at your paper doll right after it happened? Any damage? Screenshot?

Affirmative. We both repositioned after the exchange, and I was able to confirm that none of my armour was breeched.

Khobai, on 21 January 2016 - 11:07 AM, said:

ammo explosions can crit through armor, thats the only thing in the game that does

did you have an arm or leg get blown off that contained ammo? if your arm/leg was blown off it was an ammo explosion that transferred directly into your side torso internals.

another thing about crits is that a gauss rifle can do 14.9 damage to armor and 0.1 damage to internal structure and can still crit out 1-3 components. so it could very well look like your structure wasnt damaged on the ragdoll but you still suffer crits anyway because of like the 0.1 damage that got through.

My arms were fine. I'm definitely aware of the crit mechanics, and none of the armour on my 'mech was stripped, just damaged after the shot. So that 0.1 damage should not have logically gotten through to crit anything.

I would log a support ticket, but I don't recall the exact date and time of the match - without that, I imagine there's not much that can be done to examine that specific incident.

I am starting to think that hitting the exposed weapon barrel can damage the weapon directly. Not sure yet. Perhaps I shall do some science later.

Khobai, on 21 January 2016 - 12:12 PM, said:

well people do aim for it on the atlas. because the atlas is basically a walking joke without its ac20.

I dunno, man. I run A/C20, 2 LPL, and 3xSRM6+Artemis on my D-DC. It still hurts with just the left side intact. Less finishing power, I will admit, but with Artemis on those SRMs, you can really do a lot of work.

Edited by Funkmaster Rick, 21 January 2016 - 12:17 PM.

[Christof Romulus]

Funkmaster Rick, on 21 January 2016 - 10:53 AM, said:

So I was running my AS7-D-DC some days back. I recalled getting hit by two gauss rifles at fairly close range. My armour was not breeched, yet the A/C20 in my RT died from the hit. As far as I can recall, not even my back armour was actually breeched at the time. I didn't die, so I had a moment to confirm this.

I've heard that barrier ratings and such aren't used in MWO, that nothing is supposed to be able to touch your internals without stripping all armour on that location first. Is it possible that the AS7's RT gun can be critted by hitting the barrel directly? Am I wrong about BAR ratings? Or should I just fire my mechanic and pray harder to RNGesus?

A couple of things -
1. Barrier rating is not used in MWO, and even on the off chance if it were, the BAR of all mech armor is 10, and because it is an Armored Chassis would not suffer from barrier penetrations even from weapons as mighty as the AC 20. (though in TT damage rolls could of course crit, unless against hardened armor)

2. The issue many people here are experiencing (losing your AC 20 despite having armor) is likely due to the loadout bug - which I suffered from. I died to ammunition explosions on my AS7-D(F) in my right torso, even though my right torso only contained an AC 20 and a BAP - FOUR TIMES, and twice THROUGH ARMOR. After that I went to the mechlab, stripped the mech (armor and all) and rebuilt it. Since then I have not died to an ammunition explosion.

This is likely due to the save thinking you are using the default armor values of the mech (for whatever reason), but because you actually have increased armor it rolls the crit 'through the armor' thinking that the component was already stripped.

TLDR: In mechlab, strip your mech of everything and re-equip to resolve.

[Funkmaster Rick]

Well, Christof, I shall have to investigate this ammo explosion loadout bug further. But since I'm superstitious like any good 'mechwarrior should be, I'ma go rebuild it just in case. =3

That being said, I don't recall Betty letting me know about any ammo explosions, but she might have been too busy telling me all about how my A/C20 was boned, so who knows.

[Christof Romulus]

Funkmaster Rick, on 21 January 2016 - 12:20 PM, said:

Well, Christof, I shall have to investigate this ammo explosion loadout bug further. But since I'm superstitious like any good 'mechwarrior should be, I'ma go rebuild it just in case. =3

That being said, I don't recall Betty letting me know about any ammo explosions, but she might have been too busy telling me all about how my A/C20 was boned, so who knows.

My apologies, I forgot to indicate why I was getting the ammo explosions:
I USED to have 2 tons of AC 20 ammo in my RT - then I died to an ammo explosion (this was quite awhile ago, probably over a year) so I moved equipment around, which moved my BAP from my Right leg to my Right torso. The game acknowledged the move but as I said, i went down to ammo explosions until I stripped the mech.