53 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

Interesting idea. What kind of perks did you have in mind?

[Kh0rn]

I still say they need to address the total freedom of the mech lab to bring balance back in line , much like the restricted hard point system or a new type of system but something. Hell if there was a pure stock mode that is pretty much the only mode I would play.

[Wolfways]

I'd love to know what kind of perks you would get for running a stock MDD-Prime. It is completely unplayable as it is

[Hans Von Lohman]

My thinking is to have positive quirks if a weapon is in the slot it is supposed to be in, and diminishing returns if you change it to be something else. I might even base that on size. I.E. Good heat disappation for having an AC-2 in the arm of a BlackJack, but none, or extra heat penalties for putting an AC-20 in there.

Nothing happens if you just simply remove a weapon. Also, the engine type and size, armor, and upgrades have no effect.

Basically, give hardpoints names (probably a number), and then apply quirks to that hardpoint.

Edited by Hans Von Lohman, 27 January 2016 - 02:39 PM.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

I like the idea of hardpoint-specific quirks for stock weapons, but penalties for customization would be too much. The idea should be to bring the stock builds that aren't completely hopeless up closer to parity with customized builds, without killing loadout variety. A "matched set" weapon bonus for equipping all of the stock weapons and only the stock weapons would also be cool. I'd even be on board with throwing in a small but appreciable cbill or XP gain bonus (say 10%?) for running the complete stock build down to the last point of armor. There should never be a penalty for making a variant your own, though.

I might be biased because I like shoehorning AC20s into any and every hardpoint they were never designed for, but everybody's got to have a hobby.

[Dodger79]

Hans Von Lohman, on 27 January 2016 - 02:37 PM, said:

My thinking is to have positive quirks if a weapon is in the slot it is supposed to be in, and diminishing returns if you change it to be something else. I might even base that on size. I.E. Good heat disappation for having an AC-2 in the arm of a BlackJack, but none, or extra heat penalties for putting an AC-20 in there.

Nothing happens if you just simply remove a weapon. Also, the engine type and size, armor, and upgrades have no effect.

Basically, give hardpoints names (probably a number), and then apply quirks to that hardpoint.

I really hope someone from PGI reads your suggestion. Positive quirks for stock weaponry would also help new players as they won't have to spend millions and millions for customization before being competetive (and i do not mean it in the "win a tournament"-style competetive but in the "have a chance in a match"-style). It would strenghten lore-builds, make mixed loadouts viable if they are stock and, hopefully, reduce the number of mono-builds you see on the battlefield.

And you could perfectly combine it with a new approach to hardpoints via hardpoint-size. But nothing hardcoded like in MW4, where a PPC would only fit in a large energy hardpoint but more dynamic. You can put every weapon in every fitting hardpoint, just as now. BUT: if, e.g., a MG is fitted in stock, then it is a small ballistic hardpoint. You can also put an AC/2 in it without any consequences besides loosing the stock-bonus for the MG. But if you put a bigger weapon in it (AC/5 = medium, AC/10 = large, AC/20, Gauss = huge) you get negative quirks, like +5% heat and cooldown for every size above the original. So you CAN put an AC/20 in, but it will generate 15% more heat and have a 15% longer cooldown.

[Wolfways]

The thing is if you only have perks for using stock weapons (as opposed to full stock including armour, SHS, etc) then there is a huge difference between different mechs.
Stock-weapon CPLT-K2 sucks, but a stock-weapon JM6-S is a beast.

Unless you mean completely stock, in which case I doubt you could add perks good enough to compete with customized mechs, especially meta.

[Dodger79]

Wolfways, on 02 February 2016 - 04:38 AM, said:

The thing is if you only have perks for using stock weapons (as opposed to full stock including armour, SHS, etc) then there is a huge difference between different mechs.
Stock-weapon CPLT-K2 sucks, but a stock-weapon JM6-S is a beast.

Unless you mean completely stock, in which case I doubt you could add perks good enough to compete with customized mechs, especially meta.

Well, with cooler PPCs which have better cooldown and longer range, equally buffed MLAS and MGs with higher range and crit chance it wouldn't be that bad, i suppose. The "stock-quirks" should be individual to every Mech, so said K2 could get 50%-buffs but the JM only 10 or 15%. And btw.: the JM6-S might be a beast, but not for long, because even with Endo _and_ FF you wouldn't have enough free tonnage to equip proper armor and ammo. If he's made of paper or running dry after 3 minutes, well, then make it a beast for these 3 minutes to make it worth...

[Wolfways]

Dodger79, on 02 February 2016 - 05:04 AM, said:

Well, with cooler PPCs which have better cooldown and longer range, equally buffed MLAS and MGs with higher range and crit chance it wouldn't be that bad, i suppose. The "stock-quirks" should be individual to every Mech, so said K2 could get 50%-buffs but the JM only 10 or 15%. And btw.: the JM6-S might be a beast, but not for long, because even with Endo _and_ FF you wouldn't have enough free tonnage to equip proper armor and ammo. If he's made of paper or running dry after 3 minutes, well, then make it a beast for these 3 minutes to make it worth...

lol my JM6-S has plenty of armour and enough ammo to last a quick play match. If I do run out of ammo (very rare) I still have 2xML's, and tbh it's hard to get less than 500-900+ damage with it.
Yet people still say AC's are UP

[Vickinator]

El Bandito, on 21 January 2016 - 07:06 PM, said:

I just want sized hardpoints.

I love how saying this back in the poptart meta was a good way to get yelled off the forums and now its seen as something that should be implemented.

[El Bandito]

Vickinator, on 02 February 2016 - 05:08 AM, said:

I love how saying this back in the poptart meta was a good way to get yelled off the forums and now its seen as something that should be implemented.

I have been advocating sized hardpoints on the forums since early 2013, back when K2s put dual Gauss/AC20 in their MG slots. Immersion breaking customization, we have here.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 February 2016 - 05:17 AM.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Vickinator, on 02 February 2016 - 05:08 AM, said:

I love how saying this back in the poptart meta was a good way to get yelled off the forums and now its seen as something that should be implemented.

Well, it still isn't that popular of a suggestion. I don't want sized hardpoints.

I prefer a less binary system for modifying the weapon loadouts of mechs. For example I don't think it is right that you can replace the machineguns on a large mech with AC-20's, but at the same time I don't want to re-invent the whole mechlab.

So, instead I think quirks should be tied to stock weapons in their stock locations. That way a Thunderbolt with a good set of Large Laser quirks won't suddenly just be a mech with 4 large lasers. The quirks only apply to a large laser that is mounted in the right arm. Replacing the three mediums in the left chest with large lasers will not get you anything, or even get you some under performing large lasers or such.

It just irks me that a mech has a known loadout, yet you NEVER see anything of the sort. All mechs are used with some other weapon group fad that has nothing to do with the mechs as they were originally designed.

[Revis Volek]

El Bandito, on 02 February 2016 - 05:16 AM, said:

I have been advocating sized hardpoints on the forums since early 2013, back when K2s put dual Gauss/AC20 in their MG slots. Immersion breaking customization, we have here.

What Immersion?

I am really having a hard time finding what you IMMERSE yourself in here? Other then fits of rage and anger which i do quite often.

I dont want sized hardpoints per say because i dont want PGI telling me where i can put my weapons. But if you could only use ONE E hardpoint (any of them) for say a 7 or 6 ton weapon, the others for 1 or less ton weapons i think would be a better system.

Maybe make a mech with ALL 2 ton E slots so it is showing it DESIGNED for Med Pulses then quirk to taste.

Edited by Revis Volek, 17 February 2016 - 01:21 AM.

[Dodger79]

Revis Volek, on 17 February 2016 - 01:19 AM, said:

What Immersion?

I am really having a hard time finding what you IMMERSE yourself in here? Other then fits of rage and anger which i do quite often.

I dont want sized hardpoints per say because i dont want PGI telling me where i can put my weapons. But if you could only use ONE E hardpoint (any of them) for say a 7 or 6 ton weapon, the others for 1 or less ton weapons i think would be a better system.

Maybe make a mech with ALL 2 ton E slots so it is showing it DESIGNED for Med Pulses then quirk to taste.

Quirk the hardpoints, not the Mechs:

Dodger79, on 02 February 2016 - 03:56 AM, said:

And you could perfectly combine it with a new approach to hardpoints via hardpoint-size. But nothing hardcoded like in MW4, where a PPC would only fit in a large energy hardpoint but more dynamic. You can put every weapon in every fitting hardpoint, just as now. BUT: if, e.g., a MG is fitted in stock, then it is a small ballistic hardpoint. You can also put an AC/2 in it without any consequences besides loosing the stock-bonus for the MG. But if you put a bigger weapon in it (AC/5 = medium, AC/10 = large, AC/20, Gauss = huge) you get negative quirks, like +5% heat and cooldown for every size above the original. So you CAN put an AC/20 in, but it will generate 15% more heat and have a 15% longer cooldown.

-> Full freedom of customization, but at a price.