53 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

So...I decided to actually test it until death this time.
Sobering results.

Care to take a guess at what can take more fall damage?

The Cheetah at 28+14 (x2) leg IS+A?
42, for those who don't want to Math.

Or the Cute Fox at 28+14+14(*2) leg IS+A?
56 IS+A


Hint: Cute Fox is a sad robot.
Significantly sadder than he previously was, in my mind.

I knew he lost armour faster...but I had no idea he lost Structure even FASTER than the Cheetah. The 56HP dies faster than the 42HP, on average 35% faster.

3 tests were performed, on 2 maps. Flat, consistent locations.
Results were evident, and while RNGeesus prevented identical results, they are pretty clear.


As well all know, RNGeesus is a fickle god, and he played around with the Cute Fox a little in the form of Crits:

A non-simultaneous leg destruction due to Crits. Didn't change the overall results, however.

The Cute Fox in question, with max leg armour, and +14 per leg (+28 total) quirked Leg Structure over the Cheetah.


Starting position:

Spoiler

~Peak height:

Spoiler

Why is this happening? It's very simple: Fall Damage is calculated with your initial leg Structure. As such, the Cute Fox takes DOUBLE the fall damage of the Cheetah (because 14 VS 28).

Quote

Light 'Mechs = (Internal Structure Health * 1.9) * 0.04

http://mwomercs.com/...02-02-jul-2014/

Values may very well have changed since inception, but their mechanics have not.
In this case, where the Cheetah would take:
(14*1.9)*0.04
=1.064 times the damage scalar from 63M/s

Cute Fox would be
(28*1.9)*.04
=2.128 times the scalar

Yep....poor little Cute Fox.

Video Evidence included!

Old vid

Spoiler

What ever could be done to fix this issue?

Oh, right, I fixed it:

	<Quirk name="armorresist_ll_additive" value="15" />
	<Quirk name="armorresist_rl_additive" value="15" />

From the GrassHopper 5J, which from previous testing did not suffer additional Fall Damage (unlike the Summoner).

Currently, this is what the Cute Fox has:

-<component name="right_leg">
<Quirk name="jumpjetslots_additive" value="2"/>
<Quirk name="internalresist_rl_additive" value="14"/>
<Fixed ItemID="1504"/>
<Fixed ItemID="1504"/>
</component>
-<component name="left_leg">
<Quirk name="jumpjetslots_additive" value="2"/>
<Quirk name="internalresist_ll_additive" value="14"/>
<Fixed ItemID="1504"/>
<Fixed ItemID="1504"/>
</component>

Practically speaking, the "Fix" is just to do this:

-<component name="left_leg">
<Quirk name="jumpjetslots_additive" value="2"/>
<Quirk name="armorresist_ll_additive" value="14"/>
<Fixed ItemID="1504"/>
<Fixed ItemID="1504"/>
</component>
 
-<component name="right_leg">
 
<Quirk name="jumpjetslots_additive" value="2"/>
 
<Quirk name="armorresist_rl_additive" value="14"/>
 
<Fixed ItemID="1504"/>
 
<Fixed ItemID="1504"/>
 
</component>

Bam...instant bandaid applied, no additional coding needed.


#PGIPLZ Fix

Stop giving mechs Leg Structure quirks, give them Leg Armour.
Replace all current Leg Structure quirks with Leg Armour.

Edited by Mcgral18, 22 January 2016 - 11:07 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Or just remove fall damage because it never stopped poptarts anyway and can be painful when you get the ledge balloon bug, but I know, people want their realism.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 21 January 2016 - 05:05 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 21 January 2016 - 05:05 PM, said:

Or just remove fall damage because it never stopped poptarts anyway and can be painful when you get the ledge balloon bug, but I know, people want their realism.

Naw, I am all for fall damage. Before all a Light had to do if it got itself in trouble on candy mountain was just run right off...fall 250 meters...and no damage? I call shenanigans.

And IMO, it has helped to curb poptarts...at least among the "masses" (comps maybe not) because you would see Joe Average try to poptart and snap his own legs off.

[Flutterguy]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 January 2016 - 05:07 PM, said:

Naw, I am all for fall damage. Before all a Light had to do if it got itself in trouble on candy mountain was just run right off...fall 250 meters...and no damage? I call shenanigans.

And IMO, it has helped to curb poptarts...at least among the "masses" (comps maybe not) because you would see Joe Average try to poptart and snap his own legs off.

Basing the damage off IS was pretty lazy though. Should be flat damage x distance fallen x tonnage.

[Davegt27]

OP are you saying armor is not equal between Mechs?

[Mcgral18]

Davegt27, on 21 January 2016 - 05:13 PM, said:

OP are you saying armor is not equal between Mechs?

Armour is (in this case) but fall damage isn't.

Leg Structure Quirks increase the fall damage, so even though the Cute Fox gets +28 Structure, it dies faster because it takes double the Fall Damage (while only getting a 25% total HP boost)

[Flutterguy]

Davegt27, on 21 January 2016 - 05:13 PM, said:

OP are you saying armor is not equal between Mechs?

The damage is based off total IS and then applied to armor. More IS = more fall damage.

[Bishop Steiner]

Flutterguy, on 21 January 2016 - 05:09 PM, said:

Basing the damage off IS was pretty lazy though. Should be flat damage x distance fallen x tonnage.

agreed. But I honestly haven't noticed it as a huge issue, tbh, even though McGral is right, I just dunno if it's a "priority alpha" problem, overall.

Back when it was first implemented and commandos running down ramps broke off legs, yeah, big issue. Now? I can't remember the last time I took noticeable fall damage on my Light Mechs legs.

Regardless, wouldn't mind if the addressed it, simply saying I would mind if it got taken away. little **** ratbastard ACHs would be even more insanely a nuisance......

[Mcgral18]

Someone requested the Cheetah% be listed, and I agree, it makes a nice comparison:

[zudukai]

this is ****ing absurd. thank you for bringing this to our attention, this is an issue that requires intimidate correction.

Edited by zudukai, 21 January 2016 - 06:10 PM.

[Mcgral18]

zudukai, on 21 January 2016 - 06:10 PM, said:

this is ****ing absurd. thank you for bringing this to our attention, this is an issue that requires intimidate correction.

If they read PTS feedback, they've known about it for Months...

Figure I'd actually make a video about it.

[zudukai]

Mcgral18, on 21 January 2016 - 06:12 PM, said:

If they read PTS feedback, they've known about it for Months...

Figure I'd actually make a video about it.

really?...

wow...


...thank you!

[VorpalAnvil]

PGI reading, and even then understanding feedback? While we are making wishes, can I have a pony?

[FupDup]

VorpalAnvil, on 21 January 2016 - 06:45 PM, said:

PGI reading, and even then understanding feedback? While we are making wishes, can I have a pony?

Can I have effective MGs?

[Aethon]

Mcgral18, on 21 January 2016 - 05:01 PM, said:

Hint: Cute Fox is a sad robot.
Significantly sadder than he previously was, in my mind.

Even sadder than the Sadcat Prime.

And that is really sad.

[Hit the Deck]

Would it be better to make fall damage not related to internal leg structure? Say, to the Mech's tonnage instead.

[Flutterguy]

Hit the Deck, on 21 January 2016 - 06:52 PM, said:

Would it be better to make fall damage not related to internal leg structure? Say, to the Mech's tonnage instead.

That would be the proper way to fix it, but changing all leg internal structure quirks to armor quirks is easier and would still work.

[Kaeb Odellas]

I'd like to see this:

-Leg damaged based on tonnage, not leg structure. It just makes sense this way.
-Increase the threshold for fall damage, but have falls reduce speed more on impact.
-Split fall damage between structure and armor (because why wouldn't it damage the structure?
-Falling at a great enough speed should cause mechs to lose balance and fall (once they add that back in)

[Mcgral18]

Hit the Deck, on 21 January 2016 - 06:52 PM, said:

Would it be better to make fall damage not related to internal leg structure? Say, to the Mech's tonnage instead.

Kaeb Odellas, on 21 January 2016 - 06:55 PM, said:

I'd like to see this:

-Leg damaged based on tonnage, not leg structure. It just makes sense this way.

Before quirks, that's what the Structure did. Bigger robot, more structure.

With quirks, we have increased fall damage.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Mcgral18, on 21 January 2016 - 06:56 PM, said:

Before quirks, that's what the Structure did. Bigger robot, more structure.

With quirks, we have increased fall damage.

I suppose they could also just change the formula to use the pre-quirk leg structure instead.