43 replies to this topic

[SQW]

Okay, so the only thing my Warhammer's been killing in the first few days is my K/D ratio. I think I've finally figured out what I was doing wrong so I thought I put in my 2 cent and maybe some others can contribute too and spread the knowledge. Oh, I know it's not optimal given how PPC is quite weak compared to lasers in MWO but damn it, I'm sticking with the PPC arm theme.

1. The hammer can't brawl (with 2 PPCs anyway) and there are much better mechs with better hardpoints suited to brawling. I feel the hammer is more of a medium range direct fire support mech.

2. Change the PPCs to ERPPCs. Don't worry, the quirks still apply to the ER versions. The extra heat is annoying but engagement within 90m happens a lot given most of the map designs. You don't want to be caught out by a Cicada and suddenly realise you are carrying 14 tons of dead weight.

3. Get an XL engine and seriously consider double heat sink if you got the C-bills. I'm reusing the XL 275 from my Griffin 3M so it retains the stock speed and I think this range is a good balance between weight saving and speed. If you don't brawl, keep distance and use that 63km/h speed to maneuver, you should be fine.

Anyone else, please feel free to share your experience in the Warhammer or against it.

Edited by SQW, 21 January 2016 - 04:45 PM.

[ProfessorD]

SQW, on 21 January 2016 - 04:41 PM, said:

... seriously consider double heat sink if you got the C-bills. ...

Apparently you're new here. Welcome to MWO!

Public Service Announcement: Double Heat Sinks are necessary on all reasonable builds in the game. It never, ever makes sense to enter a match with Single Heat Sinks.

Edited by ProfessorD, 21 January 2016 - 05:17 PM.

[SQW]

None of my Griffin, Hunchback, Cicada and Atlas have DHS because of lack of space and still have a great win, K/D ratio.

Since I rarely go laser vomit meta, DHS has never been an absolute requirement. Sure, I'd take it if it comes stock but I'd rather spend the money on new mechs, engines or modules when I can.

[Escef]

SQW, on 21 January 2016 - 05:41 PM, said:

None of my Griffin, Hunchback, Cicada and Atlas have DHS because of lack of space and still have a great win, K/D ratio.

Go here: http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab

Post some builds for us. I'm very curious what kinds of builds in those mechs do well with single sinks.

[TELEFORCE]

I wouldn't put an XL engine in a Warhammer. I find that while the 'mech can spread damage easily, I lose its side torsos before finally going down.

[AbyssalTyrant]

If you want to brawl go with the 7s. 3 srm 6+a and 6 med lasers can do a lot of dmg in a short time period. Runs pretty hot though.

[Metus regem]

I run my 6R super stock, so DHS, Endo 4xMLas+ASRM4 + 2xMG+2xPPC, PPC's in stagger fire till the target gets under 90m, then they can eat everything else.

I find she works best as direct fire support about 150-200m behind the front line guys. She can roll damage really well, by then I'm usually missing everything but my head CT and a leg before I finally go down... Important note, the 6R is under armoured, so you should fix that yourself.

Edited by Metus regem, 21 January 2016 - 06:21 PM.

[Escef]

TELEFORCE, on 21 January 2016 - 06:15 PM, said:

I wouldn't put an XL engine in a Warhammer. I find that while the 'mech can spread damage easily, I lose its side torsos before finally going down.

XL works well enough in the Whammie. The general wisdom that applies to all heavy and assault mechs with XL engines is go for a big one, because the additional speed will buy you about as much survivability as the XL vulnerability costs you. (There are, of course, some mechs where even a big XL is at best a questionable choice, such as the Stalker, Awesome, Atlas, Banshee, or anything else relatively slow and shaped like a wall.) I've personally used 325XLs in Whammies to good effect, and would not recommend using a lower rated engine than that if you intend to XL.

[SQW]

Escef, on 21 January 2016 - 05:55 PM, said:

Go here: http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab

Post some builds for us. I'm very curious what kinds of builds in those mechs do well with single sinks.

Atlas D-DC:

ST300 engine; 2xMPL in arms; 1xAC20 + 3tons ammo; 3xSRM6 + 3ton ammo + CASE; 20 STD Heat Sinks; ECM + Beagle; 592/614 armour and 1.3/2 heat rating; SRM6 fire rate and seismic module.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5eaf1a9e169a49f

Use ECM to cover your team at the start. Wait for opportunity to come within 300m range, step out and focus on the weak points (hence the BAP and seismic). You are slow so extricating yourself is impossible - need to be very careful about positioning. It's a patient hunter build + brawler. You spend as much time looking at the map as the crosshair.

Griffin 3M

Stock XL-275 engine; 1xLPL. 3xSRM6(Artemis) + 4ton ammo + CASE; 2 JJ, 12 STD Heat Sink; 336/370 armour; 1.03/2 heat rating. Radar Dep and SRM6 fire rate module.

The LPL is just for harassment. Low heat rating is okay since you'll be relying on the SRMs. Use the speed and JJ to jump in, focus the SRMs twice or three times on a target and get out. The burst damage is tremendous and can take out some mildly damaged mediums and heavies in 3 salvos but is vulnerable in the open. The trick is not to fight face to face with someone expecting you.

HBK-4G

Basically stock everything. 3ML; AC20 + 4 tons ammo + CASE; 14 STD heat sinks; 304/338 Armour. 1.38/2 heat rating.

Just follow a heavy or assault and focus fire on everything they shoot. Focus on weak sections rather than go for kills yourself. If you leave out the ML, you can AC20 almost non-stop. Like a short range, brawny sniper.

I think it's mindset as well as the weapons that makes a good pilot. I try to figure out the role of the mech and how my play style can compliment it before I buy it and tweak the weapons. When I lose, it's usually because I forget my role and try to chase down a kill and get caught out.

Edited by SQW, 21 January 2016 - 07:48 PM.

[Thunder Lips Express]

My 7s is working pretty good for me. It has 2 LRM 15's 4 medium lasers and a tag. Kdr is a 3.0 with about 100 matches. With the small sample size it's one of my better mechs kdr wise but admittedly I'm always playing with a friend who I have grouped with since closed beta. Oh I forget what engine I have, can't remember if it's a xl or standard but for sure use double heatsinks. Otherwise you're advice is pretty void for other new players SQW

[SQW]

Thunder Lips Express, on 21 January 2016 - 07:56 PM, said:

My 7s is working pretty good for me. It has 2 LRM 15's 4 medium lasers and a tag. Kdr is a 3.0 with about 100 matches. With the small sample size it's one of my better mechs kdr wise but admittedly I'm always playing with a friend who I have grouped with since closed beta. Oh I forget what engine I have, can't remember if it's a xl or standard but for sure use double heatsinks. Otherwise you're advice is pretty void for other new players SQW

I did say I'm using dual PPCs to maintain the theme at the start. If min/max is the goal, Endo, DHS might as well be considered stock. Also, isn't your 7s just a Catapult?

[Hillslam]

Warhammer stock mode. Enduring ridicule and shame from other whammy drivers with their sacrilegious laser builds, but I am remaining faithful to the arm PPC religion and running the hammer as god intended.

My poor kdr......

However, I GOTTA figure I'm banking manpoints and karma somewhere and sometime down the road the universe will give me a cookie.

Edited by Hillslam, 21 January 2016 - 08:22 PM.

[Thunder Lips Express]

SQW, on 21 January 2016 - 08:15 PM, said:

I did say I'm using dual PPCs to maintain the theme at the start. If min/max is the goal, Endo, DHS might as well be considered stock. Also, isn't your 7s just a Catapult?

oh snap! I didn't mean void for new players, I meant valid. Lol sorry for coming off as a douche. Sure my 7s has lrms like a catapult, or like a timber, or a mad dog or a ebon. I was just saying what build works for my warhammer

[Griffinhawk]

SQW, on 21 January 2016 - 07:40 PM, said:

Atlas D-DC:

ST300 engine; 2xMPL in arms; 1xAC20 + 3tons ammo; 3xSRM6 + 3ton ammo + CASE; 20 STD Heat Sinks; ECM + Beagle; 592/614 armour and 1.3/2 heat rating; SRM6 fire rate and seismic module.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5eaf1a9e169a49f

Use ECM to cover your team at the start. Wait for opportunity to come within 300m range, step out and focus on the weak points (hence the BAP and seismic). You are slow so extricating yourself is impossible - need to be very careful about positioning. It's a patient hunter build + brawler. You spend as much time looking at the map as the crosshair.

Griffin 3M

Stock XL-275 engine; 1xLPL. 3xSRM6(Artemis) + 4ton ammo + CASE; 2 JJ, 12 STD Heat Sink; 336/370 armour; 1.03/2 heat rating. Radar Dep and SRM6 fire rate module.

The LPL is just for harassment. Low heat rating is okay since you'll be relying on the SRMs. Use the speed and JJ to jump in, focus the SRMs twice or three times on a target and get out. The burst damage is tremendous and can take out some mildly damaged mediums and heavies in 3 salvos but is vulnerable in the open. The trick is not to fight face to face with someone expecting you.

HBK-4G

Basically stock everything. 3ML; AC20 + 4 tons ammo + CASE; 14 STD heat sinks; 304/338 Armour. 1.38/2 heat rating.

Just follow a heavy or assault and focus fire on everything they shoot. Focus on weak sections rather than go for kills yourself. If you leave out the ML, you can AC20 almost non-stop. Like a short range, brawny sniper.

I think it's mindset as well as the weapons that makes a good pilot. I try to figure out the role of the mech and how my play style can compliment it before I buy it and tweak the weapons. When I lose, it's usually because I forget my role and try to chase down a kill and get caught out.

That's cool you found builds that work for you. I'm not usually for telling people how to build their mechs, but just wanted to give you back half a ton on your Griffin for armor or ammo. The CASE won't save you from side torso destruction with that XL engine unfortunately.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

ProfessorD, on 21 January 2016 - 05:16 PM, said:

Apparently you're new here. Welcome to MWO!

Public Service Announcement: Double Heat Sinks are necessary on all reasonable builds in the game. It never, ever makes sense to enter a match with Single Heat Sinks.

Oh no you didn't.

My SHS ac20 raven is too a reasonable build.

[SQW]

Griffinhawk, on 21 January 2016 - 08:23 PM, said:

That's cool you found builds that work for you. I'm not usually for telling people how to build their mechs, but just wanted to give you back half a ton on your Griffin for armor or ammo. The CASE won't save you from side torso destruction with that XL engine unfortunately.

Thanks! I forgot about that.

Thunder Lips Express, on 21 January 2016 - 08:21 PM, said:

oh snap! I didn't mean void for new players, I meant valid. Lol sorry for coming off as a douche. Sure my 7s has lrms like a catapult, or like a timber, or a mad dog or a ebon. I was just saying what build works for my warhammer

No problem. Hey, I'm forcing myself to love PPCs so I can't complain about you running LRMs.

[Thunder Lips Express]

Hillslam, on 21 January 2016 - 08:21 PM, said:

Warhammer stock mode. Enduring ridicule and shame from other whammy drivers with their sacrilegious laser builds, but I am remaining faithful to the arm PPC religion and running the hammer as god intended.

My poor kdr......

However, I GOTTA figure I'm banking manpoints and karma somewhere and sometime down the road the universe will give me a cookie.

lol nice. I tried to keep some ppc's in the arms as it just looks too dope but I'm the worst with ppc's unfortunately. I did put my large lasers in my arms when better hardpoints are in the torso, just wanted to have the "look" of a baller

SQW, on 21 January 2016 - 08:30 PM, said:

Thanks! I forgot about that.




No problem. Hey, I'm forcing myself to love PPCs so I can't complain about you running LRMs.

at least you got the Jared's to use ppc. I'm the worst with them.

[Lord0fHats]

There's a number of good Warhammer builds (sad I only have 5 to play with). Xl or Standard I think will come to personal preference. They can do either, but no matter what way you go you need good twisting skills (better than mine preferably XD).

You can run an 8 MPL on the 6D. You'll be faster than the Black Knight, and a little more armored with better twist and armor than the TBolt. The trade off is you won't have the TBolts MPL quirks. The 6D can also run 4 LL and some back up MLs. It's hot but the damage output at mid range is great.

The 7S can run the afformentioned hot LL build. It can also run a brawl build with SRM6s and your choice of MLs or SLs (depends how hot you can tolerate).

There's a number of builds for the 6R, some of them also usable on the Black Widow. Dual Gauss of course (requires an XL). Dual AC5s is nice with MLs, or an AC20 in place of the AC5s. The Black Widow can run a triple UAC5 build with an XL.

Edited by Lord0fHats, 21 January 2016 - 08:39 PM.

[SQW]

Thunder Lips Express, on 21 January 2016 - 08:32 PM, said:

lol nice. I tried to keep some ppc's in the arms as it just looks too dope but I'm the worst with ppc's unfortunately. I did put my large lasers in my arms when better hardpoints are in the torso, just wanted to have the "look" of a baller

I'm gonna call those who switched PPCs to the torso the 'Nipple' build and hope it catches on.

On a more serious note, the advantage of two PPCs with unbound arms combined with the fact most pilots will try to core your side torso before aiming for the arm makes arm PPCs better actually. The only advantage of the Nipple build is your PPC shots are less likely to be clipped by terrain.

After days of sweat and tear, I'm actually getting 300-400dmg again. PPC is a pain compared to lasers but once you got good at aiming these clunkers, I suppose you can can dish out as well as any other weapons.

[White Bear 84]

SQW, on 21 January 2016 - 04:41 PM, said:

Okay, so the only thing my Warhammer's been killing in the first few days is my K/D ratio. I think I've finally figured out what I was doing wrong so I thought I put in my 2 cent and maybe some others can contribute too and spread the knowledge. Oh, I know it's not optimal given how PPC is quite weak compared to lasers in MWO but damn it, I'm sticking with the PPC arm theme.

1. The hammer can't brawl (with 2 PPCs anyway) and there are much better mechs with better hardpoints suited to brawling. I feel the hammer is more of a medium range direct fire support mech.

2. Change the PPCs to ERPPCs. Don't worry, the quirks still apply to the ER versions. The extra heat is annoying but engagement within 90m happens a lot given most of the map designs. You don't want to be caught out by a Cicada and suddenly realise you are carrying 14 tons of dead weight.

3. Get an XL engine and seriously consider double heat sink if you got the C-bills. I'm reusing the XL 275 from my Griffin 3M so it retains the stock speed and I think this range is a good balance between weight saving and speed. If you don't brawl, keep distance and use that 63km/h speed to maneuver, you should be fine.

My personal advice based on my 2PPC 2ML 5SPL build

1. The hammer can brawl. Either if you have SRM's OR if you want to be true to the mech and keep the PPC's, try something like small pulse lasers as an alternative weapon BUT.. you are right, it is quite effective as a support mech over a brawler.

2. In relation to 1. keep ppcs - you dont need to charge in and can keep enough distance from mechs for the PPC's to be active. If that fails, the spl excel. It's like having one set for long range, one for close range and a good synergy for close range brawling

3. XL's are not necessary on these mechs - if you are going to go stock speed especially; since you put your mech more at risk with them (realistically if you have an XL you wanna go faster! )