65 replies to this topic

[JudgeDeathCZ]

3ERLL and play from distance
There you go.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2af16557dda3ff7
Add/remove armor if you want.Change TC for DHS or vice versa.

Edited by JudgeDeathCZ, 23 January 2016 - 06:14 AM.

[adamts01]

Russhuster, on 23 January 2016 - 04:04 AM, said:

I liked the shadowCat.... very but its just not competetive against the IS mechs in its weight class like BJ etc.....

Comparing under-performing mechs to the most over-quirked mechs in the game doesn't make much sense. I feel the Shadowcat is a great example of how powerful a 45 ton mech should be. Especially one that's as fast, jumps so well, has all high mounts, MASC(opinions vary) and ECM.

[Russhuster]

en contraire it DOES definitely make sense to show how desastrous the quirk idiotism has developed

and to show that the shadow cat isnt competetive to what mech should it be compated with?
ofc with an mech of equal tonnage or what=?

both are 45 tonners, and are direct opponents

To compare the shadow cat to mechs not in its weight class would make more sense?

Quote

the Shadowcat is a great example of how powerful a 45 ton mech should be.

well what is the Blackjack then?



edit: and you see you´d lead your own words i quoted ad absurdum by calling the shadow cat an underperforming mech just the line bevore - yes?

Edited by Russhuster, 23 January 2016 - 05:50 AM.

[adamts01]

Russhuster, on 23 January 2016 - 05:41 AM, said:

en contraire it DOES definitely make sense to show how desastrous the quirk idiotism has developed

and to show that the shadow cat isnt competetive to what mech should it be compated with?
ofc with an mech of equal tonnage or what=?
both are 45 tonners, and are direct opponents
To compare the shadow cat to mechs not in its weight class would make more sense?
well what is the Blackjack then?

Fair enough. As long as you aren't arguing that the Sadowcat should compete with the current Blackjack (45 tonner with more hitpoints than many heavies.)

[Russhuster]

No the Shadow Cat should be able to compete with a balanced Blackjack but the BJ and many other IS mechs are way out of any balance.
The BJ should not tank like an atlas ( just as an example ) its all a matter of sight, and as long this quirk desaster is implemented by PGI the shadowcat is just dead

But many of the IS Quirkbuckets are destroying balance BJ. BKnight, Wubbold Wubbmaster etc pp
not only IS Clan but also IS vs IS

though even with these disadvantages the SHC could at least be of somewhat use when it had some more tonnage or, not hardcoded masc and JJs but both in summa with the heat nerf whilst having to cope with overquirked buckets like the BJ with the godmode button the SHC stands little to no chance

Edited by Russhuster, 23 January 2016 - 06:10 AM.

[adamts01]

adamts01, on 23 January 2016 - 05:53 AM, said:

current Blackjack

Russhuster, on 23 January 2016 - 06:00 AM, said:

No the Shadow Cat should be able to compete with a balanced Blackjack but the BJ and many other IS mechs are way out of any balance.

I 100% agree with you.

[Kuritaclan]

adamts01, on 23 January 2016 - 05:53 AM, said:

Fair enough. As long as you aren't arguing that the Sadowcat should compete with the current Blackjack (45 tonner with more hitpoints than many heavies.)

I also take an Enforcer, Cicada or Crab over a Shadowcat. Now what. I don't say that you can not make the SHC work (I have several games i consider I did very fine with it - and my overall KDA is quite good on this mech), BUT it only has one play style to offer, what somewhat works as long as your team does not get ****** over and you have time to trade at long range and can cool off in between. That is the sad part of being a Clan OMNI Mech.

[Aiden Skye]

My drop deck in CW these days is often 1 heavy and 3 shadowcats. Still usually meet my average of 2k damage. I usually don't go through all 4 mechs unless the team is getting rofl stomped. usually run dual PPCs, dual large pulse, triple ssrm6 or dual erll with narc and tag, throwback to the Raven 3l LRM spotter days.

Useless? No. If you're used to I win button over quirked machines like Blackjacks, you just cannot play it like that. Take a hint from the shadowcats name and title of the covert. Don't try to go out there and face tank on the front lines. What it's good at is poking and harassing all day, repositioning and exposing very little of itself in the process. I see people standing fully exposed in their shadowcats standing still  for all to see. No!

That's not to say it cannot use some better quirks and tweaks, I'll welcome those!

Edited by W A R K H A N, 23 January 2016 - 06:47 AM.

[Russhuster]

when you have time to play that style maybe but these days s you dont get much of these opportunitys

[Bishop Steiner]

Paigan, on 23 January 2016 - 01:47 AM, said:

SHC will never be a good brawler or small assault or some other form of "pure damage dealer".
But if one's horizon goes beyond brainless brawling, they can be really good. I recently started playing intensively with them again and it happens more than once that I have >500 damage and >2 kills (mind you in PUG, not carried by a team).

If you use a mech as what it's designed for, news flash, it can be pretty good.

I find staying mobile, packing a uac10 in my LT, and 2x ERML works better for me..... but it's a few shades off ideal no matter the armament. Just pilots so nice I have to drive it anyhow, ya know?

[MechWarrior849305]

Paigan, on 23 January 2016 - 01:47 AM, said:

SHC will never be a good brawler or small assault or some other form of "pure damage dealer".
But if one's horizon goes beyond brainless brawling, they can be really good. I recently started playing intensively with them again and it happens more than once that I have >500 damage and >2 kills (mind you in PUG, not carried by a team).

If you use a mech as what it's designed for, news flash, it can be pretty good.

I did with these way more 8 hundreds many times, and my KDRs with all of these are around 3, grinded all in PUG games granted. Does it make Sh!tCats any good? Nope.
I did 1k+ in my mystlinx in a PUG game, I guess PGI should look into NERFing linxes rite?
All that statistics means NOTHING.

What makes any mech good? That's if you can get same good results reliably in similar game situations.
When there are odds against you (like 12 men alive against 1 you) - you can't win in any mech. But when there only 1 you and 1 enemy - this means you have 50/50% chances to win or lose... But not for this junk, cause the only reliable income for Sh!tCat in any fight is its destruction. Winning against any mech even in the same class is rather nothing but a miracle.

[adamts01]

Kuritaclan, on 23 January 2016 - 06:35 AM, said:

I also take an Enforcer, Cicada or Crab over a Shadowcat. Now what. I don't say that you can not make the SHC work (I have several games i consider I did very fine with it - and my overall KDA is quite good on this mech), BUT it only has one play style to offer, what somewhat works as long as your team does not get ****** over and you have time to trade at long range and can cool off in between. That is the sad part of being a Clan OMNI Mech.

I've honestly never played those other mechs. Like I said, I think the Shadowcat is where a 45 ton medium should be. PGI is trying to make all mediums equal in a brawl, regardless of tonnage, and I think that's the wrong way to approach things. They should be fast flankers, light hunters, and support mechs. They shouldn't be as tanky as heavies with almost as much firepower. I think part of their problem is they started balancing all mediums to be equal because they were equal in group and solo que. Now, tonnage in and Group que matters, so a 45 tonner that's = to a 55 tonner is a problem. They need to pick a direction and go with it.

[Y E O N N E]

SHC-P
- 11x DHS
- 3x C-ERML
- 1x C-UAC/10 w/ 2.5T ammo

I bought the SHC package late, and then spent MC specifically to get that P left torso so I could do this. That left torso is the key to unlocking a big alpha on this 'Mech, and there's no other reasonable build on this 'Mech that can breach 41 damage in a single burn (with the double tap) that I am aware of. This one performs very, very well.

The only other reason to take a P omnipod is to get the ballistic cool-down in the left arm if you want to run twin C-UAC/2...which actually isn't completely terrible, just very situational.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 January 2016 - 09:21 AM, said:

SHC-P
- 11x DHS
- 3x C-ERML
- 1x C-UAC/10 w/ 2.5T ammo

I bought the SHC package late, and then spent MC specifically to get that P left torso so I could do this. That left torso is the key to unlocking a big alpha on this 'Mech, and there's no other reasonable build on this 'Mech that can breach 41 damage in a single burn (with the double tap) that I am aware of. This one performs very, very well.

The only other reason to take a P omnipod is to get the ballistic cool-down in the left arm if you want to run twin C-UAC/2...which actually isn't completely terrible, just very situational.

tried it, don't really like the heat, though situationally that 3rd laser is very nice (and really, eh, what's one DHS either way?).... just too easy to ride all 3 lasers which sadly heats this bot up fast. Still trying to decide it I prefer it with 2 or 3 lasers.

Wish I could conjure up the tonnage for a UAC10 and an LPL in the respective torsos......

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 23 January 2016 - 09:27 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 January 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

tried it, don't really like the heat, though situationally that 3rd laser is very nice (and really, eh, what's one DHS either way?).... just too easy to ride all 3 lasers which sadly heats this bot up fast. Still trying to decide it I prefer it with 2 or 3 lasers.

Wish I could conjure up the tonnage for a UAC10 and an LPL in the respective torsos......

It was actually better before the C-DHS nerf to capacity, but only a smidge. Still, I can get the same number of alphas in as my STD280 6ML2SL BJ-1X. I dunno, it works for me. The bigger issue is lack of durability. SHCs can spread damage with the best of them, but not for long. Also, that C-UAC/10 is almost as bad as the AC/20 for getting crit. You really need to baby that left side.

One more E hard-point would actually make this 'Mech pretty beastly, with 4x C-MPL short-mid poke or 2x C-LPL with 2x C-ERML for mid-long poke. But, I try to avoid laser vomit if I can.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 January 2016 - 09:51 AM, said:

It was actually better before the C-DHS nerf to capacity, but only a smidge. Still, I can get the same number of alphas in as my STD280 6ML2SL BJ-1X. I dunno, it works for me. The bigger issue is lack of durability. SHCs can spread damage with the best of them, but not for long. Also, that C-UAC/10 is almost as bad as the AC/20 for getting crit. You really need to baby that left side.

One more E hard-point would actually make this 'Mech pretty beastly, with 4x C-MPL short-mid poke or 2x C-LPL with 2x C-ERML for mid-long poke. But, I try to avoid laser vomit if I can.

I'd love 2x E Hardpoint arms even just for 4x ERSL, which I think would work well with the UAC10.

Let's hope the MASC rework makes it worth having at least....

[Yosharian]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 January 2016 - 09:56 AM, said:

I'd love 2x E Hardpoint arms even just for 4x ERSL, which I think would work well with the UAC10.

Let's hope the MASC rework makes it worth having at least....

What precisely is happening to MASC? I keep seeing this 'rework' being mentioned and have no clue what it is.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yosharian, on 23 January 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:

What precisely is happening to MASC? I keep seeing this 'rework' being mentioned and have no clue what it is.

don't think they've said. But would be hard to make it more useless on a Medium or Light than it is now, ya know?

[Mcgral18]

The SadCat is a sad robot, but not because of the chassis itself, but the state of game balance.

Without 6 E hardpoints, it can't take advantage of the best Clam tech. If it could mount 6 cSPLs, MASC, ECM, 6 of the best HoverJets™ in the game, with more heatsinks (and 10 TrueDubs) than the Cheetah could take.
It could also do the ERML thing.

But in the current game? It has 3 E hardpoints, at most. Missiles are mediocre, and need you to both lead considerably and be at close range.
MGs? It can mount 6...but they're Terribad, in no uncertain terms. Easily fixed, but PGI has left them useless for 1.5 years now.


What can be done about the SadCat? Well, PGI isn't about to fix their weapon balance, nor is it going to get hardpoint inflation.
Quirks can help it.
Give it 20% less Laser duration, and those Larges can poke fairly well. Might make the cLPL too powerful...but then there's the heat limitation, which is a fair downside.

I think the duration is more important than heat on this mech, because you don't want to be in the open, and it allows you to make good use of HoverJets™ (poptarting with lasers, my BJ Arrow does it well with the 0.54s LPLs, which have the same 20% quirk with boatloads of other quirks), and not need to stare as much in other situations.

Heat doesn't stop the staring issues, which are big on small robots.


MASC changes won't really significantly change the way the mech will play, nor the weapons it plays with.

[DaZur]

As others have mentioned gauss is 15 damage.

Here's the issue you have with the shadow and using it for a ranged sniper... It's just not fast enough and doesn't have benefit of EMC. Ranged sniper is a situational role that one lives and dies by mobility. Masc and JJ help but it's just not quick enough.

If you really have you heart set on using this as a ranged sniper you'll need to learn to "scoot n shoot" and utilize topology for positioning and escape.