62 replies to this topic

[Variant1]

oldradagast, on 23 January 2016 - 08:11 AM, said:

2) Yes, PPC's do suck. Let's look at the facts, not half-arsed opinions:

PPC vs. Large Pulse Laser:

PPC advantages:
- Front loaded damage
- Counters ECM (rarely useful, but technically should be mentioned.)
- Slightly greater range (again, rarely useful since hitting a target at max range is much harder with a PPC than a hit-scan weapon like a laser.)

Large Pulse Laser advantages:
- Less heat
- More damage (slightly)
- No minimum range
- Hit-scan weapon

So, yeah... based on facts alone, PPC's do "suck" when compared to Large Pulse Lasers. If your aim is perfect - and your PPC shots are not clipping random terrain or having hit-reg issues - they can be useful. But if your aim is that good, you can hold a laser beam perfectly on target through the full burn, so you are STILL better off using a Large Pulse Laser.

In short, barring huge quirks or gimmick mechs, PPC's are currently directly and objectively inferior to large pulse lasers.

Thats only compared to the large pulse laser a dps weapon, PPC is a damage overtime gun that is preferred to be used as a sniper weapon not brawling, those are 2 different play-styles. Not to mention u can twist the large pulse lasers dmg were for ppc its much harder.

lets instead compare ppc to an ac10:
-they both do the same damage
-the ppc weighs 5 less tons and doesn't use ammo, meaning extra tonnage for heatsinks
-has more range but less dps than an ac10
-has slightly faster projectile speed than an ac10 without quirks
-the ac10 is cooler but takes up more crit space

Im not saying the ac10 is bad its an okay weapon, but comparing ppc only to large pulse laser only is not good since were not going to take in the fact there are other weapons that we can compare as well. The ppc does take more skill to use than a LPL.

Maybe the ppc could get its min range removed or at least make the players hud flicker when you get hit. Or we could buff ppc speed to orginal 1500 but that means all ppc quirks should be removed.

edit: in the end it comes down to being apples and oranges

Edited by Variant1, 23 January 2016 - 11:40 AM.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

GODWINS LAW, on 23 January 2016 - 11:24 AM, said:

Yep PPCs suck even when quirked, OP I didn't see you on the leader boards. But hey I have this account and SCRUBWARRIOROFFLINE account on the boards that have LPL builds.

I have something thats called a job. Dont have the time. But hey I scored some 800-900 damage 4-5 kill games in my PPC in the arms warhammers leveling them up with no basics in the solo Q.

[Valdherre Tor]

Yep I have a job, a wife, two kids, two cats.

Only took me about 15 matches to get on there and 20 with the other account.

BTW that sucks you have to work the weekends.

Edited by GODWINS LAW, 23 January 2016 - 11:34 AM.

[RockmachinE]

A lot of people missjudhe a miss for a hit because of one simple factor:
The PPC trail creates the illusion of a hit, because it makes the projectile appear longer due to its trail.

Any experienced fps player will know of this phenomenon.

There's 2 options when it comes to weapon hit registration, hit scan and projectile. That's it. The game might have difficulties registering lots of hits at once (eg. SRMs), but they are for all intents and purposes exactly the same as ACs as are PPCs. There is no seperate hit detection for PPCs. This is fundamental stuff people.

Edited by Louis Brofist, 23 January 2016 - 11:43 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Alwrath, on 23 January 2016 - 11:30 AM, said:

I have something thats called a job. Dont have the time. But hey I scored some 800-900 damage 4-5 kill games in my PPC in the arms warhammers leveling them up with no basics in the solo Q.

You know, the mech with a 50% velocity quirk?


Oh, right, you're using aimbot haxors to pwn newbs.


Please stop sprouting nonesense. PPCs are mediocre weapons because The Nerfinator killed them.
Saying otherwise is...well, factually incorrect.

[Wrathful Scythe]

PPCs aren't bad, there are just better options to pick. The PPC offers no real benefit, even for those with good aim. Even if you can lead your projectiles perfectly and hit with every shot, there is still almost no benefit to using PPCs instead of Laser because they are worse stat wise. IS PPC are mediocre, IS ERPPCs suck so much a** that almost every other weapon choice would be better and the C-ERPPC is only "good" with quirked mechs or combined with the Gauss because they run way to hot.

If PPCs were hitscan, then they would be viable, because you could do 10 dmg without any duration on one location. They would be still held back by their inferior stats but function as an effective weapon to do pinpoint damage. Though, some people might argue that we don't need to improve pinpoint weapons. Heck, it would even help to desync Gauss with the PPC because now the gauss-projectiles would be slower.

But then again, this might throw up a whole lot of other problems. I myself like PPCs but I am well aware that my laser vomit builds are way more effective. I play them for variety.

[Spheroid]

Amazing, thousands of players have independently arrived at the wrong conclusion regarding meta. If only they had your wisdom.

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 23 January 2016 - 11:53 AM, said:

You know, the mech with a 50% velocity quirk?


Oh, right, you're using aimbot haxors to pwn newbs.


Please stop sprouting nonesense. PPCs are mediocre weapons because The Nerfinator killed them.
Saying otherwise is...well, factually incorrect.

Alwrath, on 23 January 2016 - 11:30 AM, said:

I have something thats called a job. Dont have the time. But hey I scored some 800-900 damage 4-5 kill games in my PPC in the arms warhammers leveling them up with no basics in the solo Q.

So... this thread was created with the faulty assertion based on mechs that have a natural 30% PPC quirk (50% in the 6R variant).

What is this, I don't even...

ERPPC speed = 1200 m/s
Warhammers have a base 30% quirk..

1200 * (1+.30) = 1560 m/s

1560 m/s > 1500 m/s (before the great PPC Paulwakening)

Just dandy.

Edited by Deathlike, 23 January 2016 - 12:04 PM.

[Lykaon]

Alwrath, on 23 January 2016 - 07:53 AM, said:

To everyone complaining about PPC's, saying that they suck. Well they dont. Your the one who sucks. L2P noobs.

Been using PPC's for years, and the hitreg is just as bad as anything else in the game, so suck it up, learn how to build a PPC mech in the mechlab, and stop complaining.

Learn how to lead your target. It takes play time and practice. If your new to PPC's, or your that bad at hitting with them, theres always the training grounds.

Just because it is possible to overcome the excessive nerfs to PPC with practice does not mean that the weapon isn't subpar. I am sure that with enough practice and patients I could successfully hunt a deer with a baseball bat but the Remington 710 is just better at it.

The PPC has been a victim of successive nerfs to address an issue that periferally included the PPC.

We have had compounded nerfs to fix past issues and it seems the compound effect has hit the PPC hard.

We got velocity decreases to decouple the PPC from heavy Autocannons.Now the PPC has a slower projectile speed.

We got heat increases to discourage massed PPC group fire. Now we have hotter firing PPC.

The we got ghost heat on top of hotter PPC sorta making the hotter PPCs less relevant but hey...it stuck anyhow.

Edited by Lykaon, 23 January 2016 - 12:13 PM.

[Valdherre Tor]

How about lets see those bad *** PPC stats on your mechs and we will compare them to this LPL build-

Edited by GODWINS LAW, 23 January 2016 - 05:43 PM.

[ScoutMaster]

PPCs are ok, but I'd really like the ghost heat line to be at 3 rather than 2. Same thing for clan ERLL and LPL.

Just get rid of ghost heat entirely... ****.

[Spr1ggan]

The hit reg on PPC's is atrocious. And with the heat, a shot that doesn't reg is kinda a big deal. But what do i know? I just top the marksmanship table on mechstats for ERPPC/CERPPC's and top 10 for PPC's.

[Widowmaker1981]

Everyone is ignoring the biggest advantage of PPCs over lasers - its not just the factor of pinpoint vs having to hold the beam on target, i think more important is the fact that they snap fire. Minimum exposure time allowing maximum shielding / popping back into cover, also the only type of weapon that works well poptarted.

They do need *some* help, but if they had the same dmg per heat stats as lasers, lasers would be something only bad people would use.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 23 January 2016 - 02:09 PM.

[Shadowdusk]

Jenner!

[Moldur]

High burst damage weapons like PPCs are preferable for some situations. Imagine if you had 12 mechs with erPPCs defending Boreal Vault. Assuming everyone could aim reasonably well, whoever is at the front of the attacking conga line and then some are going to die in the little space between the gate and the trench.

[Valdherre Tor]

Widowmaker1981, on 23 January 2016 - 02:08 PM, said:

Everyone is ignoring the biggest advantage of PPCs over lasers - its not just the factor of pinpoint vs having to hold the beam on target, i think more important is the fact that they snap fire. Minimum exposure time allowing maximum shielding / popping back into cover, also the only type of weapon that works well poptarted.

They do need *some* help, but if they had the same dmg per heat stats as lasers, lasers would be something only bad people would use.

I would agree with you on the twitch fire pre-skill tree nerf, but now favors high alpha vomit due to slow twist speeds.
In fact lazors are more pinpoint now than they ever have been.

[Aethon]

Alwrath, on 23 January 2016 - 07:53 AM, said:

L2P

no u

[jaxjace]

Its not the heat or the hitreg, its the fact that when using a laser and miss, you can still deal partial damage, 2/3 dmg over 0 dmg for a miss. Any questions?

Edited by jaxjace, 23 January 2016 - 04:26 PM.

[oldradagast]

Variant1, on 23 January 2016 - 11:25 AM, said:

Im not saying the ac10 is bad its an okay weapon, but comparing ppc only to large pulse laser only is not good since were not going to take in the fact there are other weapons that we can compare as well. The ppc does take more skill to use than a LPL.

I compared PPC to a Large Pulse Laser because that is the weapon it competes with - same tonnage and same type of weapon hardpoint. Comparing it to an AC10 might be interesting from a theoretical perspective in a game with completely open customization - any hardpoint anywhere - but in MWO, PPC's and Large Pulse Lasers are directly comparable weapons. And, right now, the PPC loses in EVERY case unless you really need to knock out ECM or unless you plan on jump-sniping.

Edited by oldradagast, 23 January 2016 - 05:40 PM.

[nitra]

Dare you say i suck with ppcs ....... I have 4 of em count em 1 2 3 4 ppcs oh wait 1 2 3 ppcs and 1 er-ppc so that makes 7 ppcs and 1 er-ppc oh um wait sorry that makes 3 ppcs and 1 ppcs no i mean 1 er-ppc so that gives me a 4 in 1 chance at hitting any thing on the battlefield and believe you me i am hammering everything on the battlefield (mainly just the field).

when i see a battle mech silhouetted aginst a mountain back drop, i unleash holy hell onto that mech (mountain) and watch in utter disbelief as it walks away unscathed from my onslaught .

I round the corner into a lush field of opportunity prime for the picking of targets of opportune. i unleash my blue spheroids of furry, time and time again onto the multitudes of oh so deserving pristine mechs , and yet the cruel wraith of fate twists her cold cruel blade into my back and not a limb falls nor a torso torn from the ripe bushel of targets o plenty . i served up a dish of hate and bile and only had it to served back to me 10 fold . However this time with great bulk and accuracy coring my toso asunder as i am left in disbelif that my hail of ppcs did nothing but serve as a prelude of fireworks to my ultimate demise.

thus the ppcs are bug ridden cursed items of deciet and folly, to be placed on mechs by fools seeking grandeur on the battlefield for this is their only true purpose. many ppcs make for very pretty visuals and the more you fire the prettier the game .

Edited by nitra, 23 January 2016 - 05:40 PM.