14 replies to this topic

[Garret Schmitzer]

Hey all, long time BattleTech fan but brand new MWO player here. I've managed to save up a little under 24mil C-Bills after my cadet matches, so naturally I'm looking to buy my first mech. I plan on playing Faction Warfare with the Inner Sphere (eventually, I will heed the warnings and stay away until I'm ready for it), so I'm primarily looking at IS mechs, mainly in the medium and heavy weight classes.

However, I have some questions regarding a few of these mechs.

1. I don't care much for LRMs, but I've always loved the design of the Catapult. Is the K2 variant a decent direct fire Catapult, or is it as much of a waste of C-Bills as it looks on paper?

2. I've noticed that the Black Knight and Grasshopper seem to seriously overlap one another. I love a good laser boat, so which one would you guys recommend based on your experiences?

3. My mild web surfing has led me to discover a lot of builds for IS heavies that use XL engines. Yet, given how XL engines work and how big heavies are as targets, this seems entirely counter-intuitive. Are XL engines safer than they seem, or am I missing something?

4. The Cataphract and Centurion are both on sale at the moment. Are these two solid choices? I only ask because the Centurion's firepower seems a bit lackluster compared to the other mediums and the Cataphract's really low arms seem like they might cause problems with firing from cover.

5. How well do the Griffin and Trebuchet work with SRMs? I know they're primarily meant for LRMs, especially the Trebuchet, but I'm wondering if they can get close and missile-shotgun effectively.

6. Lastly, I've found that I like to be behind the tanky assaults/heavies, but not back with the LRM boats and ERLL snipers. Providing fire support for the big brawlers and guarding their flanks from the lights is the most comfortable place for me. Which IS medium or heavy mechs would you recommend for this role? I prefer lasers and ballistics, but SRMs are fine too.

Any feedback and/or tips would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.

EDIT: I should add that I'm not planning on playing CW until after Phase 3 releases, so something that will be flexible and fun in Quick Play while I learn the ropes and save up C-Bills is more important for the time being.

Edited by Hector Raynor, 24 January 2016 - 02:08 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

1) the K2 is good for direct fire, but the Jagermech is better due to higher hardpoints for sniping. PGI are currently redesigning the Catapult as the model had higher volume than many much heavier Mechs, I would leave it until after the rescale if you are thinking of getting the Catapult, unfortunately there is no ETA on that

2) I do not have much experiance with ether but the Grasshopper has Jumpjets, the Black Knight does not, so Grasshopper is better for mobility, the Black Knight has more armor

3) weather or not an XL engine is a good idea depends on the Mechs hitboxes, in some cases it is realy easu to block the Center torso with the sides, on Mechs like the Thunderbolt, Atlas, Griffin, Jagermech, Stalker and Hunchback, in those the extra survivability of the Standard makes an XL a big risk, there are, Mechs where you realy need the tonnage, most Lights, the Jagermech, some mediums so you take an XL, there are some Mechs where it is hard to hit the side torsos so are considered XL safe.
assuming I do not need the tonnage the way I decide if I want a standard or XL is play the Mech for 5 games, if I have never died to a side torso loss and want the extra tonage, I switch to an XL, if I loose a side torso more than twice I go for standard

4) the Centurian and Cataphract are not the most popular Mechs in their weight classes but both are viable, but you are correct about the cataphracts arms, you fire from the side or cover not peak above a hill in that

5) I cannot speek for the trebuchet but the Griffin is an excellent SRM brawler, expecialy as if you take a standard engine on the 1N and 3M you can sacrifice almost half the Mech loosing little combat capability, and the hitboxes are great for sheilding, combined with its excelent torso twist range and high engine cap, I have frequently won 1v1 fights against an atlas, with most of my firepower intact, in my opinion the Griffin is one of the best brawler Mechs in the game

6) for the role or anti flanker/anti light I would sugest the Hunchback, Griffin, Wolverine, Quickdraw, or Grasshopper, to be effective at killing lights you want something fast and/or agile and those fit, for anti light work you want small or medium pulse lasers, SRMS, SSRMs and rapid fire ACs and something with ether fast turning or good torso twist, those Mechs fit.
However for med to long range fire support you need a completely different build, Mechs more suitable for that include Jagermech, Shadow Hawk, Enforcer, Thunderbolt, Wolverine and Hunchback. I am not sure those 2 roles are compatible, sure you can make a build which can try both but it will not be good at ether,
I suppose the best you can do to be OK at both is something like an Enforcer with UAC5s, the UAC5 has a fast rate of fire and long range but can jam, however one of the ENF variants comes with 2 UAC5 and a jam chance reduction quirk, the ENF is a 50 ton Medium so is reasonably fast and agile.

[Kurbeks]

Hi and welcome here!

Firstly have you alredy done mech academy and got bonus money from there also?

If you like to stay behind big mechs, but not too far. Then i would suggest Blackjack it's also perfect for CW once you master it. 2 variants are great, 3rd you can sell once you can compete basic mastery. It's not on sale, but Xl engine cost on it will be far greater than mech cost eitherway, + upgrades and new weapons.

Heavies might be too much for 25M, espeically if you are planning on getting XL on them.You won't be able to properly buy and equip 3 mechs with that.

Griffin seems to be great SRM brawler, but that does mean you have to get close. If you like supporting from 300-700m range. Then probably get other.

Jaggermech is also good choice if you like ballistics.


XL engines on heavier mechs mean big weight savings, if you can shield with your arms, then it's a good choice to bring XL for more firepower and faster speed/mobility. Most of times you die from CT coring not ST eitherway. Maybe 1 out of 15-20 deaths in my XL Banshee have been from ST coring.

P.S. won't comment on Catapult as i don't own any LRM mechs
Also until re-scalling Catapult is too large for CW and super easy target to hit

Edited by Kurbeks, 24 January 2016 - 01:25 AM.

[Darkspart3n]

I am loving the organized format on these questions!

WARNING: These opinions are all based on the mind set that you will be using these mechs in Faction play. All of the mechs you listed can be worth a buy but I will be looking at their relative worth in Faction play.

1. The K2 is a decent mech, not top tier but there are some strong laser/PPC builds you can get out of it. Personally I don't like it and while it may be okay for public matches I would advise to stay away from this if you are looking to build a IS drop deck (personal opinion).

2. I would say go with the grasshopper but both are strong for laser boats you may just have to buy each to see how you like them as I can't recall any huge downsides to either that would make me want one over the other.

3. Some IS heavies benefit more from XLs than others, for instance the Black Knight normally will run a XL because of the awful side torsos, but a IS heavy that I can recommend is a Thunderbolt. It doesn't need a XL and the SE and SS are fan favorites for Faction play.

4. The Cataphract is one of those mechs I have been putting off buying forever now and its arms and side torsos just look like pain to me so hopefully someone else can pick up that slack. The Centurion, while not bad, is not really a strong pick for Faction play due to its brawly nature and not having the tonnage to back it up. There is one variant, the AL, that can sport 3 large lasers but it still falls behind in prolonged damage out put.

5. You can definitely get some good damage out of either of them if you build them well enough but as with the Centurion you will probably end up getting halved very quickly or dieing if you run an XL.

6. If you are in the mood for some super meta mech recommendations then look no further. I present, dun dun DUNN, the wolverine 6k. Now the wolverine is not the most popular mech for Faction play because all of the energy hardpoints are in the arm but if you can protect that arm you will have some crazy damage output. Although it is a 55 ton medium your survivability goes up because of the range at which you can fight at, its around 500m for your effective range (after quirks but before modules). This the poster child for IS laser vomit with 3 large lasers in the right are and a back up medium in the head. I run a XL 345 but you can run a smaller engine if you want more heat sinks. The only thing about this build is that it will set you back a cool 14 million C-bills so I would recommend doing some more research to see if you really want to invest in it.

6-2. Some safer recommendations would be the Thunderbolts, as previously mentioned, you could also go for Jagermechs (specifically the DD for UAC/5 spam), or even the quickdraw for more large laser spam. There are definitely some other strong picks if you are willing to go a bit heavier in the Stalker (Misery, or 4N for more large laser spam), or the king crab (for more UAC/5 spam).

Now with all of that being said I think you will get a better understanding of what mechs you like to play the more you play so just go for mechs you like and don't really worry too much about the 'meta' unless you are in a group that requires specific mechs. Also if you couldn't tell I am a bit obsessed with large laser spam so you may want to wait for some more opinions before you make your decision. Best of luck on the battlefield!

~Dark

[Garret Schmitzer]

Thanks for the replies so far.

It looks like the Thunderbolt is a flexible mech that will give me a lot of bang for my buck while also translating into something that will be useful in CW later on, so I'll probably pick up one of those.

As for a medium, I'm still on the fence. I've seen a lot on the web regarding the power of the Blackjack, but I've also read that it and a few other overbearing IS mechs are getting nerfs soon, so I don't know if it's worth it.

I should add that I'm not planning on playing CW until after Phase 3 releases, so something that will be flexible and fun in Quick Play while I learn the ropes and save up C-Bills is more important for the time being. In fact, I should add that to the OP. With that being said, the Centurion and Griffin both look fun. The shield/autocannon/lasers combo of the Centurion seems pretty decent, but from what Rogue Jedi said, the Griffin can be an SRM monster. Which mech/variant do you guys think will get the most mileage for its cost?

Edited by Hector Raynor, 24 January 2016 - 02:07 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

Hector Raynor, on 24 January 2016 - 02:06 AM, said:

Thanks for the replies so far.

It looks like the Thunderbolt is a flexible mech that will give me a lot of bang for my buck while also translating into something that will be useful in CW later on, so I'll probably pick up one of those.

As for a medium, I'm still on the fence. I've seen a lot on the web regarding the power of the Blackjack, but I've also read that it and a few other overbearing IS mechs are getting nerfs soon, so I don't know if it's worth it.

I should add that I'm not planning on playing CW until after Phase 3 releases, so something that will be flexible and fun in Quick Play while I learn the ropes and save up C-Bills is more important for the time being. In fact, I should add that to the OP. With that being said, the Centurion and Griffin both look fun. The shield/autocannon/lasers combo of the Centurion seems pretty decent, but from what Rogue Jedi said, the Griffin can be an SRM monster. Which mech/variant do you guys think will get the most mileage for its cost?

The Blackjack got ridiculous structure quirks to the point that it has more structure than 100 ton Mechs, and it is only 45 tons, it is likely that will be scaled back soon, but it will probably retain heavy Mech level structure


for the best cost/value I would recommend the Hunchback, each variant is sutible for a different role, you have the AC20 brawler (4G), AC10 skirmisher (4H), SRM brawler (4SP) LRM Skirmisher (4J) Laser Brawler (4P) and rapid fire ^{(for that weapon at least)} Gauss Rifle sniper (the Grid Iron hero Mech), Hunchbacks are cheep to buy and outfit, in total they will cost 6-8 million cbills each, about as cheep as you will find a fully outfitted Mech.

if you want to go with the Griffin there are 5 varients, each is good for a diferant reason, here is a breakdown,
1N hardpoints are 3M, 3E, all on Right side, so if you take a standard engine you can sacrifice your left side with no loss of combat effectiveness, also if you sheild with the left after it is gone your CT will only receive 16% of incoming damage thanks to a 60% damage reduction for each destroyed component the damage passes through.
1S, 2M, 4E, E on RA, M on LT, my least favorate varent
2N ECM, 4M (2 per side) 2E, again you can sacrifice the left side with most of your firepower intact, or you can go XL for more speed and agility.
3M, 2E, 4M, 1 E in LT everything else on Right side, 4 SRM4/SRM6 chainfired will give anything a bad day with constant shaking or you can alpha and twist for less accuracy but more survivability, probably the most dangerous of the Griffins.
Sparky, Hero Mech (costs real money), 6 E hardpoints 2 in each side torso, 1 in each arm, I do not own it so cannot tell you more than that.

[Kurbeks]

If you wanna go mediums and do med range support + CW later on i would still go blackjack. Even if's getting nerfed it probably will still be great for CW.

I bought mine in mid-dec, and often i don''t even lose armour. So structure quirks arent what makes them great. It's laser quirks, high weapon mount points, cockpit in level of them, and acce/decal quirks. + low weight for CW. They are also fast.

Hunchbacks are very easy to disable, just shoot at hunch and they lose most of their guns besides one variant. Centurion is also quite average i think. Griffin sound fun. But all 3 of them are average in CW. (Hunchie is probably best)


I agree thunderbolt is great. Mech i just bought in previous sale. All 4 variants different weapons so you can have nice variety of them. Plus most of them don't need XL engine

[Garret Schmitzer]

The Blackjack does look pretty perfect for a fire support role. I do have a soft spot for the Hunchback, but I guess I figured correctly that it would be rather easy to disarm given the game's shooter mechanics. I'll keep it in mind anyway.

Thanks again for the replies. The feedback has been awesome. I have a good idea on what mechs to start with now and hopefully by the time Phase 3 releases I'll be ready for it. See you guys then!

[Rogue Jedi]

Hector Raynor, on 24 January 2016 - 12:56 PM, said:

I do have a soft spot for the Hunchback, but I guess I figured correctly that it would be rather easy to disarm given the game's shooter mechanics. I'll keep it in mind anyway.

yes the Hunchback can be disarmed but one of the best things about that Mech is it is relatively simple to protect the Hunch, provided you are not surounded, and once you have learned to do that you know the secret to protecting vulnerable components, which will serve you well in almost any chassis a few minutes into the match when you have taken damage, it is just that the Hunchback will probably teach you that in an hour or two but it could take weeks or months to figure out in most other Mechs

[JC Daxion]

My thoughts on the mechs.. All you listed are good choices IMO..



Centurions are great at being lance escort/flankers. The AH is one of the best brawlers in the game. The hero carries an AC-20 and some lasers, and was the fastest ac-20 mechs in the game, though you can run fast in the AH, the SRM's take more weight, the ML's in the Hero let you squeeze a bigger engine in.

cents, have two types of people that use them.. the ones that use XL's and the ones that are wrong... I kid, i kid.... cents can be used with either STD or XL, it really is up to the user which way to go. Cents with STD's can tank like a champ.. the XL cents, are very fast, and carry deadly load outs. the choice is yours.


HBK's, the ones with the hunch get +12 structure, and +18 armor quirks, you can actually tank later game with the RT, if you played well through the game.. so it is a rather tough hunch.

TIhe 4SP, gets killer structure buffs, +32ct, +24 RT/LT, +16 RA/LA, +24LL/RR, with a increased yaw rate.. so basically this mech can spread damage like a champ. Since the changes on the HBK's, i have heard many times over chat.. Why won't that HBK die!!





Catapult K2, This mech with dual Ac5's and a pair of PPC's is great fun, and hits pretty darn hard from 600-700+

The Jester, (catapult hero) is a great energy boat, and is now considered a teir 2 mech. It's basically one of the fastest heavies at over 100KPH, and has JJ's a pair of LL's and 4MPL's is a common build. (one of my most played mechs as well, the thing is a lot of fun)

The other C1 and C4, can run LRM/SRM's and energy, the A2 can only run missiles. all catapults should run XL's..



Cataphracts are also pretty solid mechs. They can brawl, or play the longer range game with Gauss, or ac5's, UAC5's, PPC's, large lasers.. ect The 4X, can run quad ac-5's, others like the 1X/2X can run ac-20's combined with energy (2X can also fit a pair of streaks of SRM4's) The Cataphract hero, can run the very fun tripple AC5/UAC5 build.. Or the deadly dual gauss with some back up weapons, or even run AC20+MPL's and some machine guns for maximum close up carnage. They also have a version the 0XP, which can carry ECM. (just picked up one myself)

the 3D, is the cataphract that can run JJ's. A big engine+JJ's and a bit lighter on the weapon load outs, and can be a really good brawler in the right hands, one that also packs a punch and has pretty solid armor for a heavy if you spread damage well.

I would only run an XL in the 4X, for the quad ac5 builds. the others run STD and tank

Edited by JC Daxion, 24 January 2016 - 01:47 PM.

[Skarlock]

1. I don't care much for LRMs, but I've always loved the design of the Catapult. Is the K2 variant a decent direct fire Catapult, or is it as much of a waste of C-Bills as it looks on paper?

Best direct fire is probably Jester but that's rl money. Other than that, you can do SRM catapults or use the K2 with whatever setup you like best. Some people dual gauss them but that's a very tough style to use on that mech.

2. I've noticed that the Black Knight and Grasshopper seem to seriously overlap one another. I love a good laser boat, so which one would you guys recommend based on your experiences?

Black Knight over grasshopper I'd say, although the GHR-5P has some decently high mounted energy hard points which none of the BKs really have (only 1 head laser). However, if you really love jump jets, try the hopper instead. Neither one is bad, but the BK is slightly overall superior and probably one of the best heavies in the game, period.

3. My mild web surfing has led me to discover a lot of builds for IS heavies that use XL engines. Yet, given how XL engines work and how big heavies are as targets, this seems entirely counter-intuitive. Are XL engines safer than they seem, or am I missing somethig.

XL engines have a big drawback, but on many IS mechs they are mandatory due to the fact that you *must* have the speed and weight savings for guns and heat sinks to compete with clan mechs. The tradeoff is worth it if you just spread damage appropriately. A properly played XL mech will die with a red center torso and both side torsos red, maximizing their tanking capabilities to the point where a standard engine would have died just the same to the same damage.

4. The Cataphract and Centurion are both on sale at the moment. Are these two solid choices? I only ask because the Centurion's firepower seems a bit lackluster compared to the other mediums and the Cataphract's really low arms seem like they might cause problems with firing from cover.

Phract is under-rated IMO because the black knight is superior and grasshopper superior as well by simply having a lot more energy hard points and no real competitive ballistic builds IMO. It's not a bad mech but not top tier. Phract 1X has 2 high mounted energy hard points but only 5 total, so yeah. Also can't mount gauss safely because the rifle will blow your side torso and kill you once opened. Centurion is decidedly meh IMO. Not bad, but under quirked for its limitations.

5. How well do the Griffin and Trebuchet work with SRMs? I know they're primarily meant for LRMs, especially the Trebuchet, but I'm wondering if they can get close and missile-shotgun effectively.

Trebuchet is better than most people think but Griffin 3M is arguably the king of medium SRM boats, with the 2N maybe being the crown prince. It's a very high risk/high reward playstyle. If you can close the gap and not get rekt, you can take out mechs much heavier than yourself like they were made out of paper. It's all up to you to close the gap and time your push right to make the mech work. When it fails it fails spectacularly, but when it works Griffins are absolute monsters that rack up assault mech level damage and kills.

6. Lastly, I've found that I like to be behind the tanky assaults/heavies, but not back with the LRM boats and ERLL snipers. Providing fire support for the big brawlers and guarding their flanks from the lights is the most comfortable place for me. Which IS medium or heavy mechs would you recommend for this role? I prefer lasers and ballistics, but SRMs are fine too.


BJ-3 with 3 large pulse, Crab, Enforcer 4R, Quckdraw 4G or 5K, Grasshopper, Black Knight. Possibly Shadowhawk 2K or Cataphract if you want something different from the norm. Be careful of the BJ and the Quickdraw though, they may be getting rebalanced soon, we'll see.

Any feedback and/or tips would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.

To defeat the enemy mechs, shoot them until they die. Understand that single queue is a ladder.

EDIT: I should add that I'm not planning on playing CW until after Phase 3 releases, so something that will be flexible and fun in Quick Play while I learn the ropes and save up C-Bills is more important for the time being.

Entry tier CW drop deck should be 4 mechs, fully moduled and mastered, maybe 1 with er large lasers, no more. High level CW deck should be 12 mechs, 4 for brawling on Emerald Taiga (or any map you feel is strong for brawling), 4 for ERLL (or other ultra long range weapons) for boreal, 4 for the other maps/mid range traders or mid range dps to your taste.

[Leone]

@Op, sounds like you've got some ideas to start with. If I may suggest, go to the Smurfy Website and test some build ideas and save an post em here for our thoughts.

The above build for instance, is the only thunderbolt I really enjoy running, despite the fact that the build is trash for most folk (runs too hot, mostly 270m range, limited ammo, small std engine, low ranged alpha, etc.) Let us know what playstyle you like an why you choose which weapons, and we can critique it.

For instance, that build is designed around the dual AC5, as a sustained damage brawler, with the rest of the weapons as backups for when I brawl. The AC5 an SRMs can keep up a sustained barrage, while the lasers allow me some serious poking capacity that I can use like, once. It works exceedingly well with my aggressive playstyle despite the slow engine because I've a good grasp on brawling paths for most of the maps, and if I can commit correctly it can charge forward as fast as most heavies backpedal. I carry one coolshot to ensure I can go crazy if I need to break firing disciple cuz combat is... 'heating up'. It is not designed to survive the match, merely to do as much damage as possible before succumbing to enemy fire Cuz I use it to brawl like a madman.

Knowing why you like a design choice helps us let you know if the mech will work in the manner in which you are hoping, and thus hopefully we can ensure that all you mech purchases are good ones. Cuz let's face it, I might say that that is the best TDR build out there, but for most folk here, they call me crazy.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 24 January 2016 - 11:40 PM.

[Stormie]

@OP,

One suggestion for you, when buying mechs now try to imagine if they had no quirks. would it still be worth playing?

Some mechs are much easier to make an argument for in this manner. for example the jager and blackjack are always going to have brilliant-for-hill-humping highmount weapons regardless of structure buffs and quirks

whereas taking the quirks away from some mechs leaves them with much less to recommend them. there will likely be multiple balance/quirk passes before you get to CW if you are planning on joining with CW3.

Something to keep in mind.

[XX Sulla XX]

If your looking for CW IS mechs you should probably start here. http://metamechs.com...ropship-ladder/

[GotShotALot]

Also a new player, so I don't have experience with most of your questions yet.

A few things I can comment on:

For a second-line damage support medium, I tried out the Crab and found it a good mech, that could run STD engine with decent speed and good weapon distribution. With pulse lasers (and MLs) you can do considerable damage from second line and still be decently maneuverable and tanky.

The Grasshopper is very tall, and has some very high weapon mounts, and JJs. This means you can put your 'big bang' lasers in the highest torso mounts and (either standing or jumping) simply shoot OVER most friendly mechs or obstacles. JJs are very nice for maneuver options, especially in places like Canyon Network. The GHR is also decently fast and tanky with a large STD engine (you can fit DHS, Endo and Ferro all on it because lasers are slot-efficient).

As for XLs on heavies, if you look at current WarHammer threads you will see a lot of 'the CT is the first to go' comments. In cases like that, you might want an XL (or on a Dragon, for instance, where everything hits the CT). On other large mechs the STs go pop while you are twisting etc and so you want STD engine.